ACORN offices raided

[normiss 806]

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For another, they differ on issues about 10% of the time

For some of us, that is better than Obama differing from his party 3% of the time.
When did latte become upper class? I always thought it was Italian.
Interesting how you seem to want to hold her family's business success against her.

[TrophyHusband 0]

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Right, but he didn't say "I wish I had done more bombing." There's a bit of a difference.

the guy set bombs and wish he had done more. no one but him knows exactly what "more" is, but does it really matter? how bad does this guy have to be for you to concede that he's a bad guy? this question is not directed at just you, shotgun, but all of the people nitpicking details that, in the big picture, aren't really that important.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[billvon 3,008]

>For some of us, that is better than Obama differing from his party 3% of the time.

OK, that's fine. Personally, I think the democrats will do less damage than another eight years of Bush policies, but that's just me.

>When did latte become upper class?

I don't know. "Latte sipping elitist" has been a favorite of the GOP attack dogs for a while now.

>Interesting how you seem to want to hold her family's business success against her.

??? What's her family's business? Do they own Starbucks?

[piper17 1]

and now it is ACORN in Ohio!

BOE Questions Suspicious Voter Registration Cards

Last Edited: Tuesday, 07 Oct 2008, 7:59 PM EDT
Created: Tuesday, 07 Oct 2008, 7:59 PM EDT

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Cuyahoga County Election Board members grilled representatives of a community group Tuesday about their links to suspicious voter registration cards.

In one case, a Cleveland resident was registered to vote three times in a single day, listing two different addresses.

The man's registration was submitted to the Board of Elections by ACORN.

The board discussed several other cases of multiple registrations at their meeting. ACORN was involved in each case, although not for all entries by the same individuals.

"Problems do occur and we are concerned as you are, perhaps in some cases more concerned because our name is on that," says Teresa James, an attorney volunteering with ACORN.

While admitting they don't have the resources to track all multiple entries, they submit all registrations to the Board and attach a warning about cards that raise suspicions.

Leaders of the group say their role is to help low and moderate income residents participate in the democratic process and it's up to the board to weed out problematic registrations.

"ACORN is very proud of the work we do registering low income people to vote. Nearly 100-thousand cards, and we're talking about less than 100 people and we're working to resolve issues on that small number of people," said Kristopher Harsh an organizer with the group.

Board Member Robert Frost said the group failed to follow guidelines in its own manual to turn over suspected voter fraud to law enforcement to investigate.
Election officials subpoenaed three voters to appear before the Board next week to explain their mulitple registrations.

The list includes a Cuyahoga County resident whose name appears on 22 registration cards submitted in six months.

Soooo,

Should Obama win, we can all start standing on street corners chanting and holding signs - "STOLEN ELECTION, STOLEN ELECTION, STOLEN ELECTION" ILLEGITIMATE PRESIDENT!!!!

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[billvon 3,008]

I love it!

"What is Obama hiding? Why won't he go into the DETAILS of what he did with Ayers, that terrorist who said he wish he had done more bombing? We want DETAILS! Why the coverup?"

"Ayers never said he wished he had done more bombing."

"Oh, geez. You people are nitpicking details that, in the big picture, aren't really that important. Who cares about DETAILS?"

[TrophyHusband 0]

bill, you know as well as i do that some details are far more important than others. the details about why the charges against him being dismissed don't matter because he has admitted to setting bombs. exactly what he meant by "done more" doesn't matter, because he has admitted to setting bombs. he a bad guy and six months ago, i would expect you to admit it before any other liberal. in the past you have been one of the most honest posters here, but i'm starting to have my doubts. can you just admit that bill ayers is a bad guy? as far as what's more important, the details of his relationship with obama are important. if they were just aquaintances as obama claims, then we can just forget about ayers. if, as many believe, their relationship goes deeper, even a little bit, ayers becomes very important.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[billvon 3,008]

>he a bad guy and six months ago, i would expect you to admit it before any other liberal.

Six months ago, there wasn't even a peep from conservatives over all the conservatives that sat on the board with Ayers (along with Obama.) You would have laughed in the face of any liberal who claimed that Walter Annenberg, a lifelong Republican and former ambassador who was appointed by Presidents Nixon and Reagan, was "friends with terrorists."

> can you just admit that bill ayers is a bad guy?

I agree he's most likely a terrorist.

>the details of his relationship with obama are important.

Like I said, suddenly the details become important to you! Oddly, you only insist on details when you believe that they will damage McCain's opponent.

> if, as many believe, their relationship goes deeper, even a little bit, ayers
>becomes very important.

If Obama supported Ayer's attempts at terrorism, then that would indeed be a big deal. However, other than in right winger's fantasies, there is no evidence whatsoever of that.

[TrophyHusband 0]

i don't think anyone really believes obama supported ayers' terrorism. the problem is that ayers is a well known far left radical and a bad guy. i believe that obama knew exactly what this guy was in all of his dealings with him. the question now becomes, does obama have a deeper relationship with this guy beyond just some guy who lives in the same neighborhood and happened to serve on the same board once? i think its a valid question. as i've said, there are reports that there was a deeper relationship. for the time being, i'm skeptical of these reports because of the sources, but i think it should be looked into.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Andy9o8 2]

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i think it should be looked into.

...because, hey - it's time for the ol' Hail Mary...

(Finished it for you.)

[billvon 3,008]

> the problem is that ayers is a well known far left radical and a bad guy. i believe
> that obama knew exactly what this guy was in all of his dealings with him.

I suspect he had a good idea. And just as many, many high ranking conservatives have worked with former and current criminals and assorted bad people, Obama worked with him on that board.

What did conservatives think before the McCain campaign made it a big deal? From a recent report:

"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."

"I don't remember ever hearing anyone raise concerns or questions or concerns about [Ayers'] background," says Anne Hallett, who has worked closely with Ayers on the Annenberg Challenge grant and with Obama on education and other community and legislative matters. "And that included everybody I was engaged with," including prominent Republicans, and corporate and civic leaders in Chicago, Hallett adds.

Hallett calls this attack on Obama's association with Ayers and the Annenberg Challenge by further association, "a smear campaign. It's a political diatribe that has no basis in fact. The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was an extremely positive initiative. It was well-vetted, thorough, and the fact that it is now is being used for political purposes is, in my opinion, outrageous."

>the question now becomes, does obama have a deeper relationship with this guy
>beyond just some guy who lives in the same neighborhood and happened to serve
>on the same board once? i think its a valid question.

The question has been asked, and the answer has been "no" every single time (outside the aforementioned fantasy lives of GOP supporters.)

[Channman 2]

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Hmm. Does that mean that McCain should be punished for his membership in the Keating Five?

Membership? Nice try. He was punished.............now back to Obama

Was Obama a member of the Weather Underground then, at age 8?

Is Ayers a convicted felon, like Keating?

To your first point, Obama and Ayers are just dinner pals, although that is a close held secret so don't tell anyone.

To your second point, Ayers may not be a felon like Keating, but Rezko sure the hell is.

[futuredivot 0]

But all of these are Chicago politicians. Chicago politics exists just to keep Louisiana politics from looking too corrupt

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[marks2065 0]

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But all of these are Chicago politicians. Chicago politics exists just to keep Louisiana politics from looking too corrupt

so Obama came up through a corrupt political seen, conspired/work with known corrupt people, and won't talk about his association with these people. and we should think what? we should vote for him why?

[Andy9o8 2]

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But all of these are Chicago politicians. Chicago politics exists just to keep Louisiana politics from looking too corrupt

so Obama came up through a corrupt political seen, conspired/work with known corrupt people, and won't talk about his association with these people. and we should think what? we should vote for him why?

Because he's a Muslim who hates America and wants to plant bombs. Aren't you paying attention?

[TrophyHusband 0]

Quote

> the problem is that ayers is a well known far left radical and a bad guy. i believe
> that obama knew exactly what this guy was in all of his dealings with him.

I suspect he had a good idea. And just as many, many high ranking conservatives have worked with former and current criminals and assorted bad people, Obama worked with him on that board.

What did conservatives think before the McCain campaign made it a big deal? From a recent report:

"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."

"I don't remember ever hearing anyone raise concerns or questions or concerns about [Ayers'] background," says Anne Hallett, who has worked closely with Ayers on the Annenberg Challenge grant and with Obama on education and other community and legislative matters. "And that included everybody I was engaged with," including prominent Republicans, and corporate and civic leaders in Chicago, Hallett adds.

Hallett calls this attack on Obama's association with Ayers and the Annenberg Challenge by further association, "a smear campaign. It's a political diatribe that has no basis in fact. The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was an extremely positive initiative. It was well-vetted, thorough, and the fact that it is now is being used for political purposes is, in my opinion, outrageous."

>the question now becomes, does obama have a deeper relationship with this guy
>beyond just some guy who lives in the same neighborhood and happened to serve
>on the same board once? i think its a valid question.

The question has been asked, and the answer has been "no" every single time (outside the aforementioned fantasy lives of GOP supporters.)

thank you for that. now we are actually having a debate rather than non-stop nit-picking and deflection that goes on way too much here.

at this point, i have to just wait and see if any proof of what i suspect comes out. if no proof come out then i will have take obama's word on the matter.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Trent 0]

But what about ACORN and the voter fraud? Do the lefties here really think that it isn't happening or that we should not discuss it since there may be something on the other side that is bad?

Oh, hello again!

[kallend 2,028]

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Quote

But all of these are Chicago politicians. Chicago politics exists just to keep Louisiana politics from looking too corrupt

so Obama came up through a corrupt political seen, conspired/work with known corrupt people, and won't talk about his association with these people. and we should think what? we should vote for him why?

Funny how right-wing Republican Nixon-buddy Walter Annenberg should associate himself with "these people", don't you think?

Funny how BAD it is that Obama should work on an Annenberg (R) funded project to improve schools.

Could it be there's really NOTHING there to complain about?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,028]

Quote

But what about ACORN and the voter fraud? Do the lefties here really think that it isn't happening or that we should not discuss it since there may be something on the other side that is bad?

Has it been shown to be ACORN's fraud? Or are you indulging in a Bush-like "guilty until proven innocent" fantasy?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,008]

>so Obama came up through a corrupt political seen, conspired/work with known
>corrupt people . . .

So what you are saying is that he works in the same environment as every other politician.

>and won't talk about his association with these people.

He (and his campaign) have talked about it in length. "I can't be bothered to read about it" does not equate to "he said nothing about it."

>and we should think what?

Believe whatever you like. I prefer not to use Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, Michelle Malkin and Sean Hannity to do my thinking for me, but whatever floats your boat.

[Andy9o8 2]

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But what about ACORN and the voter fraud? Do the lefties here really think that it isn't happening or that we should not discuss it since there may be something on the other side that is bad?

You're only presenting 2 options.
I'll say something I presume you probably won't believe: I think most lefties would find any voter fraud, by anyone, to be abhorrent and intolerable.

[marks2065 0]

Quote

>so Obama came up through a corrupt political seen, conspired/work with known
>corrupt people . . .

So what you are saying is that he works in the same environment as every other politician.

>and won't talk about his association with these people.

He (and his campaign) have talked about it in length. "I can't be bothered to read about it" does not equate to "he said nothing about it."

>and we should think what?

Believe whatever you like. I prefer not to use Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, Michelle Malkin and Sean Hannity to do my thinking for me, but whatever floats your boat.

i have done my own reading in the different articles that are available and when the information becomes available from the univ of ill i will read that also. you honestly don't think Ayers helped Obama get started because they had hugh diferences in opinions do you?That would be like Daley starting a republicans career to the white house, isn't going to happen. you don't think Ayers was "just a nieghbor" so they had Obama over for dinner?

[billvon 3,008]

>you honestly don't think Ayers helped Obama get started because they had hugh
>diferences in opinions do you?

I don't think Ayers had much to do with "helping Obama get started."

>you don't think Ayers was "just a nieghbor" so they had Obama over for dinner?

No, they sat on the same board, and I'm sure they saw each other outside that a few times. Sort of like how I jump with people on record attempts and hang out with them afterwards. Doesn't mean I support their politics.

[kallend 2,028]

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Quote

>so Obama came up through a corrupt political seen, conspired/work with known
>corrupt people . . .

So what you are saying is that he works in the same environment as every other politician.

>and won't talk about his association with these people.

He (and his campaign) have talked about it in length. "I can't be bothered to read about it" does not equate to "he said nothing about it."

>and we should think what?

Believe whatever you like. I prefer not to use Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter, Michelle Malkin and Sean Hannity to do my thinking for me, but whatever floats your boat.

i have done my own reading in the different articles that are available and when the information becomes available from the univ of ill i will read that also. you honestly don't think Ayers helped Obama get started because they had hugh diferences in opinions do you?That would be like Daley starting a republicans career to the white house, isn't going to happen. you don't think Ayers was "just a nieghbor" so they had Obama over for dinner?

I've been to community dinners at houses of neighbors' whom I've never previously met. But then I live in a neighborly community, just like Obama does.

Nice of the GOP to waste so much time on this topic, though, instead of on the issues that the electorate actually cares about - like how Bush's 8 years are ending with the economy in a shambles, OBL still at large, and the US engaged in 2 wars.

And Mark, I believe you have hung out with me a lot over the past 2 years. Are you hiding your liberalism?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,008]

>And Mark, I believe you have hung out with me a lot over the past 2 years.

Yep.

Here's a shocker. I just found out that Sean Hannity, a popular GOP commentator, had famous anti-semite Andy Martin on his program! This is the same Andy Martin who, in a New York bankruptcy case, referred to a judge as a "crooked, slimy Jew." During the bankruptcy dispute, he filed a civil-rights lawsuit claiming Jewish bankruptcy judges and lawyers were conspiring to steal his property. He asked a court to bar "any Jew from having anything to do with plaintiff's property." He later wrote that "I am able to understand how the Holocaust took place, and with every passing day feel less and less sorry that it did, when Jew survivors are operating as a wolf pack to steal my property."

Why does the GOP support such anti-Semites? How much did Martin pay Hannity to push his anti-semitic views on millions of americans? Why does the GOP think the Holocaust was OK? And why is Hannity trying to hide his dealings with Martin? People want to know!

[kallend 2,028]

Quote

>And Mark, I believe you have hung out with me a lot over the past 2 years.

Yep.

Here's a shocker. I just found out that Sean Hannity, a popular GOP commentator, had famous anti-semite Andy Martin on his program! This is the same Andy Martin who, in a New York bankruptcy case, referred to a judge as a "crooked, slimy Jew." During the bankruptcy dispute, he filed a civil-rights lawsuit claiming Jewish bankruptcy judges and lawyers were conspiring to steal his property. He asked a court to bar "any Jew from having anything to do with plaintiff's property." He later wrote that "I am able to understand how the Holocaust took place, and with every passing day feel less and less sorry that it did, when Jew survivors are operating as a wolf pack to steal my property."

Why does the GOP support such anti-Semites? How much did Martin pay Hannity to push his anti-semitic views on millions of americans? Why does the GOP think the Holocaust was OK? And why is Hannity trying to hide his dealings with Martin? People want to know!

There's worse, Bill! Republican political pundit Mary Matalin actually LIVES with James Carville! Is she a closet liberal?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.