Wealth redistribution

[billvon 3,006]

>But America does have equal opportunity IF you decide to work for it.

Not really. Why? Because, as you said, life isn't fair.

Had a good friend whose daughter was born with spina bifida, and was mildly developmentally disabled. She will never have the opportunities that I had. No real reason for that other than (like you said) life isn't fair.

One of the things that I think is great about the US is that we DO try to make life fairer. We have (mostly) free education, a basic welfare system, tuition assistance and student loans. We have laws like handicapped access to help people like my friend's daughter have at least some of the opportunities other people have.

Will we ever be able to make life 100% fair? Nope, that's an impossible goal. But I am glad we try, and as a country we do pretty well overall (IMO.)

[Amazon 7]

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But America does have equal opportunity IF you decide to work for it. You don't have to be born with a rich daddy to be a Dr. Does it help? Of course it would. But the opportunity is there even without it. Is it equal... I would still argue yes. You still have to pass the classes yourself. You still have to take the MCAT yourself. You still have to interview yourself. You are admitted based on those criteria. You might get the interview cuz Daddy is an alum, but they don't have to take you.

(so go and change your will and leave all of it to the Shriners Cripple Childrens Hospital or to St. Judes - that would be more "fair" than leaving it to your children)

I would think he would also not have the debt you ran up. I also bet he gets the job at the better hospital... and gets into a better practice... with a completely different patient list.

[kbordson 8]

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I would think he would also not have the debt you ran up. I also bet he gets the job at the better hospital... and gets into a better practice... with a completely different patient list.

Maybe a different patient list. But for the most part, I like my patient population. My practice is mostly medicaid - by choice. Someone took care of my sister when she was pregnant and so I CHOSE to tailor my practice to that population. At least for now. (Who knows with future changes to the health care system what the future will hold.)

And yes... the debt thing isn't great, but I'm willing to pay that for this opportunity.

[TheAnvil 0]

Bullshit. You dodge the point. The mere thought that government redistribution of wealth could possibly negate the advantages some have over others is absolutely absurd in all regards.

A person born a paraplegic will not have the same opportunities that others have. If they apply themselves, they can and will succeed. There are so many random variables in life that the notion of an equal playing field for all is absolutely goat fuck stupid. There will always be factors that give advantages to some and disadvantages to other.

These factors do NOT give the state the right to step in and regulate the fuck out of anything or cheat people out of their hard earned money so some fucking loser can buy their way into office with yet another entitlement program.

Wealth redistribution is horse-shit. Marx and Engels would be proud.

[barf]

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[akarunway 1]

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Life isn't fair. (as per Karen's Dad)

All my investments could bottom out.

A tornado could take my house.

I could fall down outside my house and have a head injury... wouldn't make a good dr with that.

But you take what you have and make the best of it.

I've taken care of myself for 51 yrs. Well. W/ the help of of my parents for the first 15. And I'll survive thru this bullshit. BUT. This isn't an act of god. It's a bunch of greedy motherfuckers raping the working man. It pisses me off.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[mnealtx 0]

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Clicky

Wealth redistribution is fucking bullshit. It's earned, not distributed. That fucking shit-head Marx would be so proud.

[barf]

Rob the rich and pay the poor until there are no rich no more...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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We're a land of equal opportunity,.

No, we are most certainly NOT.

True - the Dems keep trying to dictate equal outcome.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Butters 0]

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Fine, but don't pretend that every American has the same opportunity. This is NOT an equal opportunity society.

Every American has the same opportunities (but different amounts of work to achieve the opportunity).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[pirana 0]

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We're a land of equal opportunity,.

No, we are most certainly NOT.

I disagree.

-one of my friends is a 18year old mother of two African American that was orphaned at age 16. She is a sophmore in college.
She is seizing the opportunity despite the challenges.

So some people have challenges to overcome while others have their granddaddy buy their way into Yale as "legacy admits", and in your mind that's equal opportunity?

Kids in suburban Illinois high schools have twice as much spent on their education as kids in inner city Chicago, and that's equal opportunity?

Again with the life isn't fair.

I wasn't born with a silver spoon. But my choices are to either to work with what I do have or to whine about those that have more.

There will ALWAYS be someone with more and someone with less. Obsessing on what others have that you don't isn't going to get you anywhere in life.

I did public high school. State college on scholarship. No money from mommy and daddy... my sisters had EXACTLY the same opportunities.

Some times life isn't fair. Sometimes people expect too much "fairness"

You got that right.

Life is not fair, and life is not unfair. Life is not some sentient entity looking to make everyone as whole or the same as the next person. Letting go of that kind of foolish notion is the first step in taking full accountability for who you are and who you will be.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Darius11 12]

Wealth redistribution is BS If the system was not so flawed. First the system has to be fixed.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kallend 2,027]

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Fine, but don't pretend that every American has the same opportunity. This is NOT an equal opportunity society.

Every American has the same opportunities (but different amounts of work to achieve the opportunity).

You just contradicted yourself.

Your statement is as absurd as saying two marathon runners have the same opportunity to win the race, except one of them has to carry a 100lb weight with him and the other can ride half-way in a car.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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I have been told by my sisters that the "deserve" to get a certain amount each month from me!

This entire thread is analogous to your one sentence.

I can't believe that people actually say that and can keep a straight face or look in a mirror.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ion01 2]

I am just wondering why it is not fair that hard working people can give thier kids a better life and better opportunities? Why is it fair to raise taxes or penalize all CEO because of a few?(lets keep in mind that the few we are complaining about broke laws, taxing won't keep them from braking laws.) If I work hard and kick my butt so that I can be a CEO why should I pay more taxes? Why can I give my kids better chances?
When will people let go of the idea that because someone has more that they are somehow evil?
When will we realize that it is not fair to take away from someone who has more just because they have more?
Redistribution of wealth is another way of say communism and have we not seen what communism does to countries?

[airdvr 210]

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Fine, but don't pretend that every American has the same opportunity. This is NOT an equal opportunity society.

Every American has the same opportunities (but different amounts of work to achieve the opportunity).

You just contradicted yourself.

Your statement is as absurd as saying two marathon runners have the same opportunity to win the race, except one of them has to carry a 100lb weight with him and the other can ride half-way in a car.

You're statement is inherently flawed. You equate opportunity differently. Both have the opportunity. It would most definitely be more difficult for the 100# pack guy, but he is able to start the race. If he was somehow denied the chance to enter the race he would have no opportunity to win. That's the way I look at the opportunity statement.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rehmwa 2]

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Kids in suburban Illinois high schools have twice as much spent on their education as kids in inner city Chicago, and that's equal opportunity?

So do your politics translate to the classroom?

Do you consider each student's education and then prorate their actual grades to 'level the playing field'?

Also, do all in your classes get a net reduction in grade vs kids that take similar classes from other profs? Since you are likely a better professor than the others at your school (objectively I'd quote your awards on the subject, etc)?

Or do you just handle it after graduation by giving them all crappy job references (despite good grades) to equalize the benefits of having such good opportunities (great high school prep and you as a top teacher).

Seriously, shouldn't you purposely be a worse teacher so it's fair to the other, less talented, profs?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

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Fine, but don't pretend that every American has the same opportunity. This is NOT an equal opportunity society.

Every American has the same opportunities (but different amounts of work to achieve the opportunity).

You just contradicted yourself.

Nope. I'm referring to ends while you're referring to means.

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Your statement is as absurd as saying two marathon runners have the same opportunity to win the race, except one of them has to carry a 100lb weight with him and the other can ride half-way in a car.

Is it possible that the runner carrying the 100lb weight could win the race? Yes. Thus ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[pirana 0]

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Is it possible that the runner carrying the 100lb weight could win the race? Yes. Thus ...

Absolutely. One option - sugar the gas tank of the fucker with the car.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[kallend 2,027]

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Fine, but don't pretend that every American has the same opportunity. This is NOT an equal opportunity society.

Every American has the same opportunities (but different amounts of work to achieve the opportunity).

You just contradicted yourself.

Your statement is as absurd as saying two marathon runners have the same opportunity to win the race, except one of them has to carry a 100lb weight with him and the other can ride half-way in a car.

You're statement is inherently flawed. You equate opportunity differently. Both have the opportunity. It would most definitely be more difficult for the 100# pack guy, but he is able to start the race. If he was somehow denied the chance to enter the race he would have no opportunity to win. That's the way I look at the opportunity statement.

I didn't deny the existence of opportunity. I denied the existence of EQUAL opportunity for everyone in this country. Read the thread.

We most certainly are not a society of EQUAL opportunity.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

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Kids in suburban Illinois high schools have twice as much spent on their education as kids in inner city Chicago, and that's equal opportunity?

So do your politics translate to the classroom?

Do you consider each student's education and then prorate their actual grades to 'level the playing field'?

Also, do all in your classes get a net reduction in grade vs kids that take similar classes from other profs? Since you are likely a better professor than the others at your school (objectively I'd quote your awards on the subject, etc)?

Or do you just handle it after graduation by giving them all crappy job references (despite good grades) to equalize the benefits of having such good opportunities (great high school prep and you as a top teacher).

Seriously, shouldn't you purposely be a worse teacher so it's fair to the other, less talented, profs?

Do you know what "EQUAL" means?

We are NOT a nation of equal opportunity, contrary to streetscooby's claim/

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Darius11 12]

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am just wondering why it is not fair that hard working people can give thier kids a better life and better opportunities?

Who said that’s not fair? As long as you did not get you’re wealth in an unethical manner then why not.

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Why is it fair to raise taxes or penalize all CEO because of a few?(

I think we would be happy if the ones responsible (the few) got punished, but they get a slap on the wrist and then get to come out and go back to there million dollars homes. This is off course after the employees they had can not retire to even a modest retirement because the CEO broke the law, and became greedy.

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If I work hard and kick my butt so that I can be a CEO why should I pay more taxes? Why can I give my kids better chances

No one said you shouldn’t but there is a difference between working hard and fucking over people.
I think corporate loopholes need to be closed. They simply do not pay their fair share of taxes.


As for the CEOs if you make more you pay more, and again if someone has to pay then 5% increase on 250K is not as detrimental as it would be 5% of someone who makes 30K a year. You can live with out first class you cant live with out food and a home.

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When will people let go of the idea that because someone has more that they are somehow evil?

When we stop seeing corrupt people in power who take advantage of all the people who actually do the work then maybe we would feel better. As of right now knowing my tax money is going to help some CEO who is already retired and in the Caymans having fun I think I have the right to be pissed that we are paying for their mistake.

As for Evil, The idea of capitalism is that money is your god. You live to make a profit. Which is fine however with some regulation. As we know Corporations have lawyers and will try to do anything to pay less and make more at any cost as long as they can get away with it. If we had enough regulation wait regulation is not the word, oversight then it should be fine. My main concern is that there needs to be some one making sure that laws are not being broken.

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When will we realize that it is not fair to take away from someone who has more just because they have more?

As long as they did not STEAL it from me they can have as much as they want.

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Redistribution of wealth is another way of say communism and have we not seen what communism does to countries?

We have. but I don’t think this one way we have with the middle class help the rich is exactly fair.

When a corporation and the people leading it (CEOs) lie to make huge profits with out any regard to the employees lives that they destroy they need to be punished severely in my opinion. Again I think corporate loopholes need to be closed. They should pay their fair share and not be allowed to play games with the system so they do not pay.


If you made your money in an ethical manner then I don’t think anyone is saying you should be punished.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Thanatos340 1]

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We most certainly are not a society of EQUAL opportunity.

Something I agree with you on.

We are all born Unequal.

Each with different Intellect, Intelligence, Drive, Motivation and Opportunity. The ones that take what they have and what is available to them and make the most of it are generally called Conservatives. Those that whine about how unfair that is are generally called Liberals.

[Butters 0]

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I didn't deny the existence of opportunity. I denied the existence of EQUAL opportunity for everyone in this country. Read the thread.

We most certainly are not a society of EQUAL opportunity.

Equal opportunity when referring to means doesn't exist anywhere.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Shotgun 1]

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Why this pisses me off so much:

My sisters and I all have similiar intellect. All were given the same emphasis on education by my parents. My older sister chose to join the carnival after failing out of college (cuz she partied a bit). My younger sister has been hoping for some guy to come and sweep her off her feet and just take care of her. I chose to go to college on a scholarship, went into the military, then went back to medical school on my own finances and now.... I have been told by my sisters that the "deserve" to get a certain amount each month from me! Now... if I CHOSE to give .... that's one thing. But the EXPECTED contribution is intolerable.

This "redistrubution" is disgusting.

So, what do you prefer in the tax cuts that the candidates are proposing? Or do you think it would be more fair if everyone simply paid a straight percentage of their income (no breaks for kids, homes, etc.)?

[kbordson 8]

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So, what do you prefer in the tax cuts that the candidates are proposing? Or do you think it would be more fair if everyone simply paid a straight percentage of their income (no breaks for kids, homes, etc.)?

I honestly think a straight percentage is the "most fair".... whatever that means. But it would also mean no loopholes, no exemptions, no whining about paying "my share"

But.... it would be VERY difficult to have that pass. Everyone wants their exceptions and this groups feels that they should pay less and ....

I'm not saying that taxes aren't important - And I have no problems paying my share to keep things running. But when I'm EXPECTED to pay others shares too.... both the richer with exepmtions and the poorer with exucses. We all use the roads, we all use the legal system, we all should contribuate to the same level.

[kallend 2,027]

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We most certainly are not a society of EQUAL opportunity.

Something I agree with you on.

We are all born Unequal.

Each with different Intellect, Intelligence, Drive, Motivation and Opportunity. The ones that take what they have and what is available to them and make the most of it are generally called Conservatives. Those that whine about how unfair that is are generally called Liberals.

Then we agree; claiming that we are an equal opportunity society is incorrect.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.