Roe v. Wade in the 3rd Debate

[JohnnyD 0]

Did this change anything for anyone?

Personally, I was disappointed in McCain. While running against Bush 43 in the primaries, he said that his personal views were exactly that - personal. He said he would not support an attempt to revisit the issue in an attempt to overturn and undermine the Supreme Court and would not support any law that would lead to government interference in the medical decisions of individuals.

That's the McCain I was hoping to get the chance to vote for in 2000. Unfortunately, it appears as if that McCain has left the building.

[Amazon 7]

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Personally, I was disappointed in McCain. While running against Bush 43 in the primaries, he said that his personal views were exactly that - personal. He said he would not support an attempt to revisit the issue in an attempt to overturn and undermine the Supreme Court and would not support any law that would lead to government interference in the medical decisions of individuals.

That's the McCain I was hoping to get the chance to vote for in 2000. Unfortunately, it appears as if that McCain has left the building.

The man who I once believed was a moderate has become some kind of strange angrier caricature of George Bush over the last year. I had hopes of him coming to his senses until his selection of a shill for the religious right in his selection of his running mate. I had great hopes for the man to be able to really open up a bipartisan dialog and reach across the aisle to fix the devisivness of the real George Bush, not the one who ended up being such a divider and decider. There is ZERO hope of change when the same people will be in a McCain administration that are currently in this administration.

[AWL71 0]

I agree. I am strongly against abortion on a personal level but people should have the freedom to make their own decisions.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi AWL,

Very interesting. I am all for abortion upon demand. I also, strongly believe that:

people should have the freedom to make their own decisions.

JerryBaumchen

[klingeme 1]

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I agree. I am strongly against abortion on a personal level but people should have the freedom to make their own decisions.

I've never understood this argument. You either believe that abortion is the ending of a life, or simply a medical procedure like removing a mole. If it is not a "life" then why would anyone be opposed to using abortion as birth control? If you believe that life does not start at conception, proudly say "YOU ARE PRO-ABORTION" because it is just a simple medical procedure that does not end a human life. In many ways, the people who have abortions could compare it to a cancerous mole being removed, as both will greatly affect their life if not "removed".

If this is the way you feel, don't hide behind titles like "women's right to choose" and "Pro Choice". Stand up and say "I'm Pro Abortion as a form of birth control, or convienence, and proud of it". After all, there is nothing wrong with having a simple medical procedure.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Pro abortion

I know people on all sides of the debate, but I don't know anybody who is "pro abortion." I understand why you don't like the term "pro choice", but the label "pro abortion" is more demonizing than it is descriptive. Even semantically, it is not simply the logical opposite of the label "anti-abortion."

[klingeme 1]

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Pro abortion

I know people on all sides of the debate, but I don't know anybody who is "pro abortion." I understand why you don't like the term "pro choice", but the label "pro abortion" is more demonizing than it is descriptive. Even semantically, it is not simply the logical opposite of the label "anti-abortion."

You are either for peoples right to have an abortion, which in this case, you do not think it is the ending of a life, or anti abortion, because you think it is a form of murder. These are the facts. Stand up for what you believe in and don't hide behind pretty names if you think there is nothing wrong with the procedure. We are talking about people having abortions. Do you believe they should have the right to have them (Pro-abortion) or against them (Anti-Abortion)?

[Andy9o8 2]

Most people I know who are 1-issue voters because they feel passionately about the issue - and it's not just this one - also tend to view their issue as strictly black or white, and cannot possibly conceive of shades of grey; indeed, they generally take great umbrage at the mere suggestion of the existence of shades of grey. I generally no longer try to discuss those issues with these folks, because there's no room for discussion.

[JackC 0]

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You are either for peoples right to have an abortion, which in this case, you do not think it is the ending of a life, or anti abortion, because you think it is a form of murder. These are the facts. Stand up for what you believe in and don't hide behind pretty names if you think there is nothing wrong with the procedure. We are talking about people having abortions. Do you believe they should have the right to have them (Pro-abortion) or against them (Anti-Abortion)?

Do you think people should have the right to go to war? You're either for people to have the right to defend their country (pro-war) or you're against it (anti-war). If you're pro-war, why not just invade any country that looks at you a bit sideways? After all you don't see anything wrong with bombing people, it's just a procedure, like trade sanctions.

[klingeme 1]

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Most people I know who are 1-issue voters because they feel passionately about the issue - and it's not just this one - also tend to view their issue as strictly black or white, and cannot possibly conceive of shades of grey; indeed, they generally take great umbrage at the mere suggestion of the existence of shades of grey. I generally no longer try to discuss those issues with these folks, because there's no room for discussion.

In the case that the mothers life is at risk, she has to choose between her life or her babies, and I think this is the only time when an abortion should be considered. One life or the other is going to be ended and while it is a tough "choice" I think this is the only time killing the baby should even be consdered.

FACT Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.
an abortion is either:
1. the ending of a life
2. simply a medical procedure.

WHERE IS THE GREY? Is it ending a life when the mother can not afford (either the time or the money) the baby?

Is it not ending a life if a woman is raped?

If you believe it is the ending of a life, ANY abortion is a form of murder (like throwing a newborn in a dumpster).

If you don't believe it to be murder, than we should suggest them to anyone who does not want the inconvience of a child.

[Andy9o8 2]

You've illustrated my point.

[klingeme 1]

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You are either for peoples right to have an abortion, which in this case, you do not think it is the ending of a life, or anti abortion, because you think it is a form of murder. These are the facts. Stand up for what you believe in and don't hide behind pretty names if you think there is nothing wrong with the procedure. We are talking about people having abortions. Do you believe they should have the right to have them (Pro-abortion) or against them (Anti-Abortion)?

Do you think people should have the right to go to war? You're either for people to have the right to defend their country (pro-war) or you're against it (anti-war). If you're pro-war, why not just invade any country that looks at you a bit sideways? After all you don't see anything wrong with bombing people, it's just a procedure, like trade sanctions.

People who Volunteer to join the military have made thier choice to do so for whatever reason they have, and I have the utmost respect for them, but we (in the USA) have a system set up where whatever the government decides is in the best intrest of the coutry goes. Some may not believe in "peace keeping missions" or defending against "civil rights violations" but once you sign up, you pretty much agree to do whatever you are told and loose the "right to decide".

Now I'm overly simplifying it, but to compare a volunteer in the military who had a choice to sign a piece of paper to an unborn infant who's mother decided they just didn't want them are definantly APPLE to ORANGES.

[klingeme 1]

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You've illustrated my point.

Your completley right. After the abortions, we should decide if it is Murder 1 or manslaughter based on the situation of the "mother".

There is your grey.

[JackC 0]

Yeah, I thought it might be too subtle a point for you to get. Never mind.

[klingeme 1]

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Yeah, I thought it might be too subtle a point for you to get. Never mind.

OK, tell me one reason that it is alright to take the life if you think life starts at conception, or one reason it is not ok to have an abortion if life does not start there.

[billvon 3,006]

>If you believe that life does not start at conception, proudly say
>"YOU ARE PRO-ABORTION"

I am against abortion. I think women should have the right to get it if they desire.

I am against alcoholism. I think people should make their own decision on whether or not to drink heavily,

I am against smoking. I think it's a stupid and disgusting habit. I think people should have the right to smoke if they want.

It has to do with my principles vs. my right to force my beliefs on someone else.

[Darius11 12]

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Pro abortion

I know people on all sides of the debate, but I don't know anybody who is "pro abortion." I understand why you don't like the term "pro choice", but the label "pro abortion" is more demonizing than it is descriptive. Even semantically, it is not simply the logical opposite of the label "anti-abortion."

You are either for peoples right to have an abortion, which in this case, you do not think it is the ending of a life, or anti abortion, because you think it is a form of murder. These are the facts. Stand up for what you believe in and don't hide behind pretty names if you think there is nothing wrong with the procedure. We are talking about people having abortions. Do you believe they should have the right to have them (Pro-abortion) or against them (Anti-Abortion)?

You’re forgetting about most people. The ones who know that they don't know when life begins, the ones that are not so sure as there is not enough facts. Until it is proven life begins at conception and what life is considered Humane then the decision should be left to the individual. That’s why I am pro choice.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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Yeah, I thought it might be too subtle a point for you to get. Never mind.

OK, tell me one reason that it is alright to take the life if you think life starts at conception, or one reason it is not ok to have an abortion if life does not start there.

What if you don’t know when life begins I don't know for sure I have ideas? I believe most of us can not say for certain when life begins, and because we are not sure we do not believe we should make rules/laws that effect peoples lives on our opinion.

People should have a choice to decide for themselves.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kallend 2,027]

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You are either for peoples right to have an abortion, which in this case, you do not think it is the ending of a life, or anti abortion, because you think it is a form of murder. These are the facts. Stand up for what you believe in and don't hide behind pretty names if you think there is nothing wrong with the procedure. We are talking about people having abortions. Do you believe they should have the right to have them (Pro-abortion) or against them (Anti-Abortion)?

Do you think people should have the right to go to war? You're either for people to have the right to defend their country (pro-war) or you're against it (anti-war). If you're pro-war, why not just invade any country that looks at you a bit sideways? After all you don't see anything wrong with bombing people, it's just a procedure, like trade sanctions.

People who Volunteer to join the military have made thier choice to do so for whatever reason they have, and I have the utmost respect for them,

Women who are raped have not become pregnant voluntarily, and didn't make the choice to be made pregnant for ANY reason. Neither you, McCain nor Palin should be allowed to dictate to them what to do about the consequences of the rape. You should show some respect for rape victims and not force your morality on them.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[livendive 8]

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I agree. I am strongly against abortion on a personal level but people should have the freedom to make their own decisions.

I've never understood this argument. You either believe that abortion is the ending of a life, or simply a medical procedure like removing a mole.

Perhaps this is where your confusion starts. The logical fallacy in your statement is commonly referred to as a false dichotomy.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[klingeme 1]

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I am against alcoholism. I think people should make their own decision on whether or not to drink heavily,

but if you drink and drive and kill an innocent baby, OK.

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I am against smoking. I think it's a stupid and disgusting habit. I think people should have the right to smoke if they want.

But if you smoke around your baby and give it Asthma, no problem

[klingeme 1]

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Yeah, I thought it might be too subtle a point for you to get. Never mind.

OK, tell me one reason that it is alright to take the life if you think life starts at conception, or one reason it is not ok to have an abortion if life does not start there.

What if you don’t know when life begins I don't know for sure I have ideas? I believe most of us can not say for certain when life begins, and because we are not sure we do not believe we should make rules/laws that effect peoples lives on our opinion.

People should have a choice to decide for themselves.

So what is wrong with partial birth abortion of throwing a newborn in a dumpster?

[klingeme 1]

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You are either for peoples right to have an abortion, which in this case, you do not think it is the ending of a life, or anti abortion, because you think it is a form of murder. These are the facts. Stand up for what you believe in and don't hide behind pretty names if you think there is nothing wrong with the procedure. We are talking about people having abortions. Do you believe they should have the right to have them (Pro-abortion) or against them (Anti-Abortion)?

Do you think people should have the right to go to war? You're either for people to have the right to defend their country (pro-war) or you're against it (anti-war). If you're pro-war, why not just invade any country that looks at you a bit sideways? After all you don't see anything wrong with bombing people, it's just a procedure, like trade sanctions.

People who Volunteer to join the military have made thier choice to do so for whatever reason they have, and I have the utmost respect for them,

Women who are raped have not become pregnant voluntarily, and didn't make the choice to be made pregnant for ANY reason. Neither you, McCain nor Palin should be allowed to dictate to them what to do about the consequences of the rape. You should show some respect for rape victims and not force your morality on them.

Rape is a HORRABLE thing and the DICKHEAD should be castrated, but the unborn baby did NOTHING wrong, so why kill it?

If a drunk driver crashes into you and you become paralized, should you be allowed to kill your children because you can no longer take care of them?

[klingeme 1]

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I agree. I am strongly against abortion on a personal level but people should have the freedom to make their own decisions.

I've never understood this argument. You either believe that abortion is the ending of a life, or simply a medical procedure like removing a mole.

Perhaps this is where your confusion starts. The logical fallacy in your statement is commonly referred to as a false dichotomy.

Blues,
Dave

If it is not one of these two things, what is the definition of Abortion?

[billvon 3,006]

>But if you smoke around your baby and give it Asthma, no problem

You have to read my posts. No, it is not OK, and that person would be a poor parent. Yes, it should be legal to smoke.

There is a difference between OK and legal. There should be no law requiring you to exercise even though I think it's a good idea. Just because there's no law requiring exercise, the statement "so if you sit on a couch the rest of your life and do nothing, no problem" does not follow.