kallend 2,028 #51 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteThe McCain campaign thrust greatness upon Joe so they could score a few political points. True, but the only political points come from the chosen one's own mouth. Getting him to actually voice his love of wealth redistribution is definitely a coup. If only it were true. politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/18/fact-check-obama-said-he-would-spread-his-wealth-around/... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TankBuster 0 #52 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe McCain campaign thrust greatness upon Joe so they could score a few political points. True, but the only political points come from the chosen one's own mouth. Getting him to actually voice his love of wealth redistribution is definitely a coup. If only it were true. politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/18/fact-check-obama-said-he-would-spread-his-wealth-around/ But it is, no matter how your liberal author spins it. "Right now, everybody's so pinched that business is bad for everybody. And I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #53 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe McCain campaign thrust greatness upon Joe so they could score a few political points. True, but the only political points come from the chosen one's own mouth. Getting him to actually voice his love of wealth redistribution is definitely a coup. If only it were true. politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/18/fact-check-obama-said-he-would-spread-his-wealth-around/ so John, does that mean you are ok with the US becoming a socialist country? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #54 October 18, 2008 >joe would be better off under Obama's plan if Obama does what he says. Agreed. >the american drean is that you have the ability to pick your profession >and achieve the level of sucsess you want. work for a living, striving for a > good life and giving your children a better place to live is what it is all > about. Agreed. >nowhere in the constitution does it say that government should level the >playing field and give out the earnings of one to uplift onother. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, esablish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. What does that mean? Things like education, roads, the FAA, the FCC, all things that a) promote the general welfare and b) "take from one and give to another." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #55 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuotedo people not realize that the labor and property are already cheaper over seas? the taxe rate going up WILL send more jobs overseas. why would any good bisiness stay here? we need to promote growth of jobs not send them elsewere. lowering taxes has ALWAYS shown an increase in tax revenue due to more jobs and bisinesses created buy the cuts. with that said wouldn't raising taxes do just the oposite? Exactly. And have you noticed that one of BHO's favorite lines goes something like "McCain wants to give tax cuts to wealthy corporations that ship our jobs overseas?" .that line right there about tax cuts to those that send jobs oversseas is the key. smart people would realize that McCain wants to keep jobs here and Obama will drive them overthere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #56 October 18, 2008 Quote>joe would be better off under Obama's plan if Obama does what he says. Agreed. >the american drean is that you have the ability to pick your profession >and achieve the level of sucsess you want. work for a living, striving for a > good life and giving your children a better place to live is what it is all > about. Agreed. >nowhere in the constitution does it say that government should level the >playing field and give out the earnings of one to uplift onother. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, esablish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. What does that mean? Things like education, roads, the FAA, the FCC, all things that a) promote the general welfare and b) "take from one and give to another." PROMOTE does not mean provide Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #57 October 18, 2008 >PROMOTE does not mean provide Correct. It is not the job of government to provide for everyone's needs. It is the job of government to contribute to the growth and prosperity of the people of the United States. Hence the wording. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #58 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe McCain campaign thrust greatness upon Joe so they could score a few political points. True, but the only political points come from the chosen one's own mouth. Getting him to actually voice his love of wealth redistribution is definitely a coup. If only it were true. politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/18/fact-check-obama-said-he-would-spread-his-wealth-around/ so John, does that mean you are ok with the US becoming a socialist country? It already is. Schools, roads, airports, community hospitals, national labs, the army, navy, airforce, marines, coast guard, border patrol, prisons, police, fire service...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #59 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotedo people not realize that the labor and property are already cheaper over seas? the taxe rate going up WILL send more jobs overseas. why would any good bisiness stay here? we need to promote growth of jobs not send them elsewere. lowering taxes has ALWAYS shown an increase in tax revenue due to more jobs and bisinesses created buy the cuts. with that said wouldn't raising taxes do just the oposite? Exactly. And have you noticed that one of BHO's favorite lines goes something like "McCain wants to give tax cuts to wealthy corporations that ship our jobs overseas?" .that line right there about tax cuts to those that send jobs oversseas is the key. smart people would realize that McCain wants to keep jobs here and Obama will drive them overthere. Nope. Not only incorrect on the basis of Obama's stated policies, but flies in the face of the Bush administration's economic report (2004) in which BUSH's administration (staunchly supported by John "I am a Derugulator" McCain) said how beneficial it is to the US economy to outsource jobs. Check for yourself in" Economic Report of the President and The Annual Report of the Council of Economic Advisers, US Government Printing Office, Washington DC February 2004.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #60 October 18, 2008 Quotethe welfare in this country is going to soar to unpresidented levels and become the overwelming burden that others have fought hard to prevent. Even if you're right (and though I don't think you are, I understand why you fear it will be), I submit to you that doing things like squandering a surplus and running up a trillion dollar deficit feeding the military-industrial complex's slop troughs so that G.W. Bush can exorcise the demons of his Oedipus complex in Iraq is hardly a worthwhile expense of blood and treasure, either. I'd rather spend a buck supporting a crack baby than causing the needless death of an 18 year old hero. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #61 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuotethe welfare in this country is going to soar to unpresidented levels and become the overwelming burden that others have fought hard to prevent. Even if you're right (and though I don't think you are, I understand why you fear it will be), I submit to you that doing things like squandering a surplus and running up a trillion dollar deficit feeding the military-industrial complex's slop troughs so that G.W. Bush can exorcise the demons of his Oedipus complex in Iraq is hardly a worthwhile expense of blood and treasure, either. I'd rather spend a buck supporting a crack baby than causing the needless death of an 18 year old hero. Personally... I'd rather the mother NOT do crack and endanger her and the child by using in pregnancy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #62 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotedo people not realize that the labor and property are already cheaper over seas? the taxe rate going up WILL send more jobs overseas. why would any good bisiness stay here? we need to promote growth of jobs not send them elsewere. lowering taxes has ALWAYS shown an increase in tax revenue due to more jobs and bisinesses created buy the cuts. with that said wouldn't raising taxes do just the oposite? Exactly. And have you noticed that one of BHO's favorite lines goes something like "McCain wants to give tax cuts to wealthy corporations that ship our jobs overseas?" .that line right there about tax cuts to those that send jobs oversseas is the key. smart people would realize that McCain wants to keep jobs here and Obama will drive them overthere. Nope. Not only incorrect on the basis of Obama's stated policies, but flies in the face of the Bush administration's economic report (2004) in which BUSH's administration (staunchly supported by John "I am a Derugulator" McCain) said how beneficial it is to the US economy to outsource jobs. Check for yourself in" Economic Report of the President and The Annual Report of the Council of Economic Advisers, US Government Printing Office, Washington DC February 2004. so you don't think raising taxes on bisinesses will hurt jobs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #63 October 18, 2008 Quote >please tell me what role the government played in your achievements . . . I would not today have the (good) job that I have if not for the FCC, an organization that allocates and enforces frequency band assignments. I would likely not have the education that I have without government loans and government scholarships. I would not even be here if the US did not accept a massive flood of refugees from the fallout of the Irish potato famine. Nice stretch. Let me ask you again: What government program played a direct role in your success professionally, personally and financially? Quote >Incorrect, they want to cut taxes to everyone. Impossible without cutting spending, and no republican politician is willing to do that. Might as well say democrats just want everyone to be rich without increasing spending. Fixed that for you... Quote >Despite corporate tax incentives to companies, the US still has the >second highest corporate tax rate in the world. Show me the cuts. You >can't . I can show you annual reports (I've posted plenty about Exxon >here)...those evil cuts aren't there. ===================================== Bush to veto bill rolling back tax breaks for oil White House says the president will refuse to sign a bill that puts an end to $18 billion in tax cuts for the oil industry. Why don't you do some research into how big the oil industry is? $18B across an industry that is worth $2Tr is nothing...just like $700B bailout to help a market worth $50+Tr is meaningless. Quote Looks like the onus is on you to prove that Bush is lying. You're trying to make it look like these companies aren't paying billions in taxes, when in fact, they're paying more than anyone. Quote >34% to 39.5% is not small change to someone making $300K... OK. Then a $4000 tax credit is not small change either. It is when it costs an employer 10x that to hire and retain someone. The average wage in the US is what, $35K (let's just use that as a benchmark for a moment), that employee gets benefits too, plus the costs for the employer invests to hire the right individual, that $35K employee costs the employer $50K+ the first year. Couple that tax credit with the higher payroll taxes, the $4K credit is a wash. It's smoke an mirrors. Ask any small business owner. Quote >The Small Business Administration disagrees with you. Do you think a restaurant chain of 16 restaurants in Texas is a "small business?" If so, then we will have to agree to disagree. We disagree all the time, it doesn't change the fact that you don't appear to have an understanding of what a small business is. How many employees does Perris Valley have? They have how many aircraft...including a DC-9? That doesn't sound small to many, but they are I bet. Why don't you ask them how the tax increases will affect them with their razor-thin margins. A restaurant chain in Texas with 16 locations can certainly be a small business, how many employees are there? How much money do they make? Once upon a time, Qualcomm was a small business. Once upon a time, so was Google, Yahoo!, MicroSoft, HP, eBay, Amazon, Ford, Boeing, Dell...in fact, just about every well known company out there started small...most farms in the US are small businesses, most local banks, just about every franchise owner, gas station...you squeeze the small business, and the US economy, thus world economy is finished. Without the small business, most large businesses will not function, they'd lose their client base and incentive to invest in large scale capital investment to promote growth. "Trickle-up" as Sen. Obama desires, is a black hole and stifles innovation.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #64 October 18, 2008 Quote promote the general Welfare, Promote is not the same as "provide".... edit to correct my error...edit again to correct more errors...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #65 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuotethe welfare in this country is going to soar to unpresidented levels and become the overwelming burden that others have fought hard to prevent. Even if you're right (and though I don't think you are, I understand why you fear it will be), I submit to you that doing things like squandering a surplus and running up a trillion dollar deficit feeding the military-industrial complex's slop troughs so that G.W. Bush can exorcise the demons of his Oedipus complex in Iraq is hardly a worthwhile expense of blood and treasure, either. I'd rather spend a buck supporting a crack baby than causing the needless death of an 18 year old hero. Personally... I'd rather the mother NOT do crack and endanger her and the child by using in pregnancy. Wishing after the fact won't help the baby.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #66 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuote promote the general Welfare, Promote is the same as "provide".... not reallywww.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #67 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotedo people not realize that the labor and property are already cheaper over seas? the taxe rate going up WILL send more jobs overseas. why would any good bisiness stay here? we need to promote growth of jobs not send them elsewere. lowering taxes has ALWAYS shown an increase in tax revenue due to more jobs and bisinesses created buy the cuts. with that said wouldn't raising taxes do just the oposite? Exactly. And have you noticed that one of BHO's favorite lines goes something like "McCain wants to give tax cuts to wealthy corporations that ship our jobs overseas?" .that line right there about tax cuts to those that send jobs oversseas is the key. smart people would realize that McCain wants to keep jobs here and Obama will drive them overthere. Nope. Not only incorrect on the basis of Obama's stated policies, but flies in the face of the Bush administration's economic report (2004) in which BUSH's administration (staunchly supported by John "I am a Derugulator" McCain) said how beneficial it is to the US economy to outsource jobs. Check for yourself in" Economic Report of the President and The Annual Report of the Council of Economic Advisers, US Government Printing Office, Washington DC February 2004. so you don't think raising taxes on bisinesses will hurt jobs? I think Exxon Mobil and BP aren't hurting too much right now. GM and Ford have problems relating to their poor management decisions, not their taxes. Then there are those laid-off Lehman Bros. employees, nothing to do with taxes. But you can't escape the fact that the Bush administration put in writing in an official administration publication that outsourcing jobs to other countries is good for us.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #68 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotedo people not realize that the labor and property are already cheaper over seas? the taxe rate going up WILL send more jobs overseas. why would any good bisiness stay here? we need to promote growth of jobs not send them elsewere. lowering taxes has ALWAYS shown an increase in tax revenue due to more jobs and bisinesses created buy the cuts. with that said wouldn't raising taxes do just the oposite? Exactly. And have you noticed that one of BHO's favorite lines goes something like "McCain wants to give tax cuts to wealthy corporations that ship our jobs overseas?" .that line right there about tax cuts to those that send jobs oversseas is the key. smart people would realize that McCain wants to keep jobs here and Obama will drive them overthere. Nope. Not only incorrect on the basis of Obama's stated policies, but flies in the face of the Bush administration's economic report (2004) in which BUSH's administration (staunchly supported by John "I am a Derugulator" McCain) said how beneficial it is to the US economy to outsource jobs. Check for yourself in" Economic Report of the President and The Annual Report of the Council of Economic Advisers, US Government Printing Office, Washington DC February 2004. so you don't think raising taxes on bisinesses will hurt jobs? I think Exxon Mobil and BP aren't hurting too much right now. GM and Ford have problems relating to their poor management decisions, not their taxes. Then there are those laid-off Lehman Bros. employees, nothing to do with taxes. But you can't escape the fact that the Bush administration put in writing in an official administration publication that outsourcing jobs to other countries is good for us. lets get off of bush and concentrate on now. bush is going away and either McCain or Obama is getting in.if Obama raises taxes to large companies will it hurt the economy by costing jobs? If McCain lowers taxes will it hurt the economy by costing jobs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #69 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotedo people not realize that the labor and property are already cheaper over seas? the taxe rate going up WILL send more jobs overseas. why would any good bisiness stay here? we need to promote growth of jobs not send them elsewere. lowering taxes has ALWAYS shown an increase in tax revenue due to more jobs and bisinesses created buy the cuts. with that said wouldn't raising taxes do just the oposite? Exactly. And have you noticed that one of BHO's favorite lines goes something like "McCain wants to give tax cuts to wealthy corporations that ship our jobs overseas?" .that line right there about tax cuts to those that send jobs oversseas is the key. smart people would realize that McCain wants to keep jobs here and Obama will drive them overthere. Nope. Not only incorrect on the basis of Obama's stated policies, but flies in the face of the Bush administration's economic report (2004) in which BUSH's administration (staunchly supported by John "I am a Derugulator" McCain) said how beneficial it is to the US economy to outsource jobs. Check for yourself in" Economic Report of the President and The Annual Report of the Council of Economic Advisers, US Government Printing Office, Washington DC February 2004. so you don't think raising taxes on bisinesses will hurt jobs? I think Exxon Mobil and BP aren't hurting too much right now. GM and Ford have problems relating to their poor management decisions, not their taxes. Then there are those laid-off Lehman Bros. employees, nothing to do with taxes. But you can't escape the fact that the Bush administration put in writing in an official administration publication that outsourcing jobs to other countries is good for us. lets get off of bush No, let's not. Because those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Bush has been a case study in how to ruin an economy and turn the most respected nation in the world in to one that now has almost no respect. And McCain not only sided with Bush until very recently when Bush became a liability, but the GOP itself considered Bush to be better when it had the choice between them in 2000.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #70 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote promote the general Welfare, Promote is the same as "provide".... not really Yes, I edited and am displaying the difference here: pro·mote /prəˈmoʊt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-moht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –verb (used with object), -mot·ed, -mot·ing. 1. to help or encourage to exist or flourish; further: to promote world peace. 2. to advance in rank, dignity, position, etc. (opposed to demote). 3. Education. to put ahead to the next higher stage or grade of a course or series of classes. 4. to aid in organizing (business undertakings). 5. to encourage the sales, acceptance, etc., of (a product), esp. through advertising or other publicity. 6. Informal. to obtain (something) by cunning or trickery; wangle. pro·vide /prəˈvaɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-vahyd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -vid·ed, -vid·ing. –verb (used with object) 1. to make available; furnish: to provide employees with various benefits. 2. to supply or equip: to provide the army with new fighter planes. 3. to afford or yield. 4. Law. to arrange for or stipulate beforehand, as by a provision or proviso. 5. Archaic. to prepare or procure beforehand. –verb (used without object) 6. to take measures with due foresight (usually fol. by for or against). 7. to make arrangements for supplying means of support, money, etc. (usually fol. by for): He provided for his children in his will. 8. to supply means of support (often fol. by for): to provide for oneself.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #71 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote promote the general Welfare, Promote is the same as "provide".... not really Yeah, I screwed up...I edited my post...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #72 October 18, 2008 Quote Quote promote the general Welfare, Promote is note the same as "provide".... edit to correct my error... Sorry, Max.... but you still have an error (I will say that I was a bit surprised when I read your initial statement) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #73 October 18, 2008 Quote so you don't think raising taxes on bisinesses will hurt jobs? How much will next year's trillion dollar deficit hurt jobs? The weak dollar is a big part of the oil price. Only exporters benefit, and only if they don't have to import resources to make their product. Taxes don't exist in a vacuum. We have to cut our deficit before we can think about cutting our taxes, because we cannot sustain 500-1000B deficits for very long, even with an economy of our size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #74 October 18, 2008 Quote Quote Quote promote the general Welfare, Promote is note the same as "provide".... edit to correct my error... Sorry, Max.... but you still have an error (I will say that I was a bit surprised when I read your initial statement) Okay, really, I fixed it this time....So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #75 October 18, 2008 QuoteQuote so you don't think raising taxes on bisinesses will hurt jobs? How much will next year's trillion dollar deficit hurt jobs? The weak dollar is a big part of the oil price. Only exporters benefit, and only if they don't have to import resources to make their product. Taxes don't exist in a vacuum. We have to cut our deficit before we can think about cutting our taxes, because we cannot sustain 500-1000B deficits for very long, even with an economy of our size. your correct we need to cut spending and get ourselves out of this mess. Obama promises to raise taxes and spending, the very thing we cannot do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
