Gawain 0 #1 October 17, 2008 Okay, so, the arguments about experience and company one keeps don't seem to matter...why though? The choices we make don't have a bearing on how others might judge us don't matter anymore? Really? So, serving on boards with an admitted terrorist who advocates killing parents and entering into shady real estate deals with convicted felons is not a big deal...everybody does it right? Choosing a church, building a two-decade relationship with a less than savory pastor, marrying you to your wife, baptize the kids...means nothing, no bearing on the choices we make, right? Advisors that cook the books of companies under investigation and/or government control due to bad lending practices still have something of value to offer? Let me share the credentials of this guy, he has many accomplishments, and certainly has the goods: Youngest mayor of a well known city in the western US Served in the Cabinet as Secretary of one of the major departments Served as Governor of his home state After leaving office served in business relationships with Nike, PacifiCorp, Bechtel, etc. A powerful figure for sure. Experienced yes. However, none of this matters, does anyone know why? (Amazon, you'll probably ruin it for everybody...I'm pretty sure you know) Now, why doesn't it matter? A pretty impressive career by any standard, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 October 17, 2008 Splat snif sniff sniff..... eeeeewwwwwww Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #3 October 17, 2008 Okay, for the folks wondering why the aforementioned fella's career and accomplishment doesn't mean anything is because while he was mayor, he was having a relationship with a 14 year old...the time was disputed, between one and three years. By the time he admitted to it, the statute of limitations ran out. But but but....all he accomplished.... Nope. Doesn't mean anything. To anyone. Sen. Obama's relationships don't mean anything either. Of course, Rep. Foley sent a few text messages, was forced to resign, later cleared of any wrong doing...he's a scumbag... Just checking folks. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #4 October 17, 2008 Want to fill us in on what Goldie is doing today??? He was never convicted of anything yet he is out of politics...no longer a consultant --lobbyist... and resigned from the Oregon Bar.. Considering.... I think he paid dearly for his affair with an under age girl and deservedly so. Want to tell us all the penalty for being AWOL for more than 30 days??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #6 October 17, 2008 "How close are McCain and Liddy? At least as close as Obama and Ayers appear to be. In 1998, Liddy's home was the site of a McCain fundraiser. Over the years, he has made at least four contributions totaling $5,000 to the senator's campaigns--including $1,000 this year. Last November, McCain went on his radio show. Liddy greeted him as "an old friend," and McCain sounded like one. "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family," he gushed. "It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #7 October 17, 2008 Liddy paid his debt to society. How long was Ayers' prison sentence, again? I've forgotten. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 October 17, 2008 Quote "How close are McCain and Liddy? At least as close as Obama and Ayers appear to be. In 1998, Liddy's home was the site of a McCain fundraiser. Over the years, he has made at least four contributions totaling $5,000 to the senator's campaigns--including $1,000 this year. Last November, McCain went on his radio show. Liddy greeted him as "an old friend," and McCain sounded like one. "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family," he gushed. "It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great." G. Gordon Liddy was convicted and paid his debt to society -- no, he was not pardoned. However, I can plainly see the similarity of a wire tap being the same as bombing the Capitol, the Pentagon and NYPD HQ, where people did die, all while being on record advocating "kill your parents"... ...of course it's not remotely the same thing...but if that's how you draw linear comparison...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #9 October 17, 2008 QuoteLiddy paid his debt to society. How long was Ayers' prison sentence, again? I've forgotten. How many crimes was Ayers convicted of? I've forgotten. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #10 October 17, 2008 Quote Quote "How close are McCain and Liddy? At least as close as Obama and Ayers appear to be. In 1998, Liddy's home was the site of a McCain fundraiser. Over the years, he has made at least four contributions totaling $5,000 to the senator's campaigns--including $1,000 this year. Last November, McCain went on his radio show. Liddy greeted him as "an old friend," and McCain sounded like one. "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family," he gushed. "It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great." G. Gordon Liddy was convicted and paid his debt to society -- no, he was not pardoned. However, I can plainly see the similarity of a wire tap being the same as bombing the Capitol, the Pentagon and NYPD HQ, where people did die, all while being on record advocating "kill your parents"... ...of course it's not remotely the same thing...but if that's how you draw linear comparison... Of course they're not the same thing. One of these people is a convicted felon and the other should be presumed innocent. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #11 October 17, 2008 Dave.. He got off on a technicality. He fully admits to planting Bombs. On September 11, 2001 he said he wishes he had bombed more. He published this in the New York Times. He was never convicted but his crimes are not in question. Thus far he has got away with terrorism. He does not deny it. He is actually rather proud of it. Saying he was never convicted does not change the FACT that he is a terrorist. Bin Ladin hasn’t been convicted yet either. Is he a terrorist? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #12 October 17, 2008 None of this matters, you know that. While the "right" people I know have no problems bashing Bush or McCain, we WELL know that those on the left will not criticise their people. Well, maybe they'll say that they think that Obama's smoking is bad or something. What you'll more likely hear when you ask questions like this, and you've already heard some here, is something like... "Oh, what about that bad guy that was on the right? Huh? What do you have to say to THAT?" This is, of course, because they lack the intellectual honesty to even TRY to be objective. A bad guy on THEIR side simply cannot be a bad guy without a bad guy to match on the other side. Cue the comments as to how they actually DO criticise their people, there's just not much evidence of it, but they swear they do it.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #13 October 17, 2008 QuoteLiddy paid his debt to society. How long was Ayers' prison sentence, again? I've forgotten. Liddy is a convicted felon. Ayers is not. You want to send people to prison without convicting them first - I understand why you supported Bush.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #14 October 17, 2008 QuoteDave.. He got off on a technicality. He fully admits to planting Bombs. On September 11, 2001 he said he wishes he had bombed more. He published this in the New York Times. ? No, he didn't. He has been frequently misquoted (including last night my McCain) but that is NOT what he said.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #15 October 17, 2008 In the same breaths in which he admits to the bombings, he also denies doing them. Personally, it smacks of grandstanding to me. In any case, I think trying to bring Obama down on the basis of whatever Ayers did or did not do 35 years ago is pretty disingenuous. Trying to bring Obama, McCain, Biden, and Palin down for what they have individually done? That seems perfectly reasonable to me. But for what others have done, especially those with whom they're not particularly close? Not so much. How much press are you hearing about McCain being married to a drug addict? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #16 October 17, 2008 With associations like that, you can't even get a security clearance.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #17 October 17, 2008 QuoteYou want to send people to prison without convicting them first - I understand why you supported Bush. Really? Why don't you go ahead and show where I have advocated sending anyone to prison, professor. By that logic, you want women and the old/unfirm to be at the mercy of the young and strong, with no way to protect themselves from rape/murder, given your support of gun control measures.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #18 October 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteDave.. He got off on a technicality. He fully admits to planting Bombs. On September 11, 2001 he said he wishes he had bombed more. He published this in the New York Times. ? No, he didn't. He has been frequently misquoted (including last night my McCain) but that is NOT what he said. ''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'' THAT is what he said on September 11th, 2001.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #19 October 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteDave.. He got off on a technicality. He fully admits to planting Bombs. On September 11, 2001 he said he wishes he had bombed more. He published this in the New York Times. ? No, he didn't. He has been frequently misquoted (including last night my McCain) but that is NOT what he said. ''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'' THAT is what he said on September 11th, 2001. Correct - and it is not at all clear in the context of the article that the "enough" related to setting bombs rather than ending the war. The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again," as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility." Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the interviewer's characterizations in a Letter to the Editor published September 15, 2001: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion."* In the ensuing years, Ayers has repeatedly avowed that when he said he had "no regrets" and that "we didn't do enough" he was speaking only in reference to his efforts to stop the United States from waging the Vietnam War, efforts which he has described as ". . . inadequate [as] the war dragged on for a decade." Ayers has maintained that the two statements were not intended to imply a wish they had set more bombs. * Bill Ayers, Clarifying the Facts— a letter to the New York Times, 9-15-2001,... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #20 October 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteDave.. He got off on a technicality. He fully admits to planting Bombs. On September 11, 2001 he said he wishes he had bombed more. He published this in the New York Times. ? No, he didn't. He has been frequently misquoted (including last night my McCain) but that is NOT what he said. ''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'' THAT is what he said on September 11th, 2001. and the spin keeps spinning. John and the left will never look at their side objectively. most of us here, from the right, have said something they don't like about the right but the left doesnt or won't be objective on their side because it would hurt their chances to win. if anything that we have talked about was done on the right the left would have crucified the person for it. perfect example is Palin, she has more exec experience than Obama by a long shot but she has been blasted because of the size of the state. Obama has NEVER balanced a budget or made exec discisions but that is ok because he is a dem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,028 #21 October 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDave.. He got off on a technicality. He fully admits to planting Bombs. On September 11, 2001 he said he wishes he had bombed more. He published this in the New York Times. ? No, he didn't. He has been frequently misquoted (including last night my McCain) but that is NOT what he said. ''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'' THAT is what he said on September 11th, 2001. and the spin keeps spinning. . The spin is all coming from the right. Ayers wrote to the NYT immediately the article was published in 2001 pointing out that the interviewer had deliberately distorted his words. A fact that the right ignores over and over.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #22 October 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDave.. He got off on a technicality. He fully admits to planting Bombs. On September 11, 2001 he said he wishes he had bombed more. He published this in the New York Times. ? No, he didn't. He has been frequently misquoted (including last night my McCain) but that is NOT what he said. ''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'' THAT is what he said on September 11th, 2001. Correct - and it is not at all clear in the context of the article that the "enough" related to setting bombs rather than ending the war. The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again," as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility." Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the interviewer's characterizations in a Letter to the Editor published September 15, 2001: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion."* In the ensuing years, Ayers has repeatedly avowed that when he said he had "no regrets" and that "we didn't do enough" he was speaking only in reference to his efforts to stop the United States from waging the Vietnam War, efforts which he has described as ". . . inadequate [as] the war dragged on for a decade." Ayers has maintained that the two statements were not intended to imply a wish they had set more bombs. * Bill Ayers, Clarifying the Facts— a letter to the New York Times, 9-15-2001, Deliberate distortion? The quote is what it is and is left for the reader to interpret. If in fact it is a the correct quote, and Ayers does not dispute that it isn't, then IMO there was no distortion. The quote is simply there with no contextual explanation. And quite frankly it didn't need it. I knew perfectly well what he meant when I read the quote and I'm certainly no genius who has a deeper understanding of things than most. However that does not change the fact he is a discpicable person. I likely wouldn't say that if he didn't plan on bombing an Army Officers' Ball. Thank goodness for incompetency.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #23 October 17, 2008 Quote perfect example is Palin, she has more exec experience than Obama by a long shot but she has been blasted because of the size of the state. Obama has NEVER balanced a budget or made exec discisions but that is ok because he is a dem. I've never blasted Palin for the size of Alaska, and I've never said she doesn't have enough experience. However I *have* pointed out that in 6 years as mayor of Wasilla, she increased spending by 127% and turned zero long-term debt into $20 million dollars of long-term debt. I consider that bad. I have pointed out that she hasn't got much in the way of educational qualifications...a BA in journalism won't help with anything but spin management, and I've not gotten the impression she's even good at that. Whenever she tries to answer a question without a prepared answer, she reminds me of that south carolina beauty pageant chick from a year or two ago...she seems painfully ignorant of the issues a US executive should be familiar with and awful at trying to make shit up on the fly. The fact that you can see an uninhabited part of Russia from a place in Alaska she's never been gives her foreign policy experience? Being "commander in chief" of the Alaska National Guard gives her foreign policy experience? Personally, I'm voting for the guy who I think will be less fiscally irresponsible, less likely to embarass us on the international front, and most likely to avoid war except as a final resort. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #24 October 17, 2008 Quote Thank goodness for incompetency. Why would you be thankful for anything Bush has done? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #25 October 17, 2008 Where exactly did I say anything about Bush?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
