billvon 3,058
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
kallend 2,099
Quote> neither campaign has called the other candidate a bastard, a traitor or a criminal yet. That's not to say that there is no room for improvement, of course.
There's plenty of video of McCain supporters calling Obama "traitor", "criminal" and "terrorist" at McCain rallies. Until last week McCain just smiled. Suddenly he makes a half-hearted stand against it - coincidence that the polls showed him going down with every such attack? I suspect NOT.
And then there's the RNC ad:
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/817/
And it concludes, "Barack Obama. Not who you think he is."
Asked by reporters if he was proud of the mailer, McCain replied, "Absolutely."
And people wonder why McCain's campaign workers go over the top!
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Shotgun 1
QuoteI am not backing from my belief that Obama's campaign policies led to events that came to this unfortunate situation. Was she unbalanced? Of course. Did he hold the knife? DUH. But... did he encourage an acceptance of violence? Is he responsible for his rhetoric? I believe so.
Wow, so you're still trying to blame Obama for this? I just assumed your non-response to my last question was an admission of being wrong, but you're still going on with this crap. So now I'll ask you again: If this story had turned out to be true, would you be saying that McCain is at fault for making someone hate him so much that they would beat up a young woman and carve a "B" in her face?
nerdgirl 0
QuoteI am not backing from my belief that Obama's campaign policies led to events that came to this unfortunate situation. Was she unbalanced? Of course. Did he hold the knife? DUH. But... did he encourage an acceptance of violence? Is he responsible for his rhetoric? I believe so.
Could you give an example of "Obama's policies" or rhetoric that suggest causality? I'm genuinely asking here because I don't see it ... perhaps you've seen something I haven't (?).
As I'm reading it blaming Sen Obama or his campaign for the actions of this one person has some similarities to blaming gun manufacturers advertising (rhetoric) or the NRA (rhetoric) for gun crimes, which I'm fairly confident you (& many others) would not agree. Please clarify if you mean something else.
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
jakee 1,556
QuoteIf a campaign is based on anger (and yes, I do think "get in their face" is angry and confrontational), then the one in charge of the campaign... and especially the one that said those words.... should back away from that stance when it becomes evident that anger is NOT the answer.
I'll ask you again (the above is an answer that has nothing to do with my question) - What does Obama's comment have to do with the incident? Please, oh please, demonstrate how it is connected?
QuoteI am not backing from my belief that Obama's campaign policies led to events that came to this unfortunate situation.
How? What events? Specifics please, not vague slander.
QuoteIs a woman responsible for her rape? Of course not. But... she is unwise if she wears a short skirt in bad parts of town at night all alone.... She could have made efforts to avoid being in that situation.
Absolutely irrelevant, unless you think it is a bad thing for a woman to wear a short skirt! The question is, do you think the hatred of the KKK means that black people must in some way be bad? Does the hatred of a rapist mean that the woman must have done something bad to make him hate her? you're backing away from addressing these analogies head on because you know it makes your opinion look ridiculous.
QuoteFTR, I am NOT your darling and the fact that you're stooping to just being patronizing and insulting is showing your colors.
I got bored of being nice when it became apparent that you were going to do nothing but deliberately misinterpret my positions and twist away from answering any direct questions. You don't usually seem this intellectually dishonest, but you're doing it now and I've got no intention of accomodating it.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
QuoteIt is true that you will never make everyone love you, but as President, I believe that you should be able to have respect of the people.
The Republicans for the last decade have had a policy of 50% + 1. They feel that is all they have needed to maintain control of the country and thus their decision to deliberately try to polarize the population. Thus, their over zealous pandering to the evangelicals and trying to recruit as many as they could into that camp. Sure the elections would be tight but they were certain that with a strong dose of fear tossed in, they would maintain control.
About 6.5 years ago the DNC changed their own vision and instead went back to a 50 state program. Now, it's not nearly as sweet as it sounds. This was a strategic move to make the RNC work harder in their own Red states while the DNC could solidify the blue states and pick up nearly all of the swing states and maybe 1 or 2 red states.
Obama played well to that 50 state policy just at the right time when you have an army of people like you, Karen, that have become tired of the mudslinging over the last decade that has helped drive the entire country into the pits.
I like your ideological vision, and would love to see politics work for the people instead of their own private interests. Obama is a better option for that over McCain by far.
Edit: One thing thou, don't let your vision get in the way of reality here. The Obama camp gains no scars from this event. How can you gain anything negative when they had no connection to it at all? You are trying to make a strong point of what politics should be, but your focus on them for this disaster is misguided. This entire thing just makes the McCain camp look more desperate and disgusting than ever before.
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
billvon 3,058
>There's plenty of video of McCain supporters calling Obama "traitor",
>"criminal" and "terrorist" at McCain rallies.
And vice versa; there have been plenty of Obama supporters calling McCain senile, a Manchurian candidate, a sugar daddy to Palin etc etc. But neither has come from the campaigns themselves.
>"criminal" and "terrorist" at McCain rallies.
And vice versa; there have been plenty of Obama supporters calling McCain senile, a Manchurian candidate, a sugar daddy to Palin etc etc. But neither has come from the campaigns themselves.
QuoteI am not backing from my belief that Obama's campaign policies led to events that came to this unfortunate situation. Was she unbalanced? Of course. Did he hold the knife? DUH. But... did he encourage an acceptance of violence? Is he responsible for his rhetoric? I believe so.
Wow... how so? Can you give an example?
kbordson 8
Get in their face
Obama Inciting Violence and Hate Against McCain
Bristol Palin should have been aborted?! WTF!
Liberal Outrage: A Pro-McCain March In Manhattan
Plus considering his personal relationships with those that absolutely do advocate violence, it just makes me very hesitant about him and his beliefs. I just don't trust him. Period.
And I'm not saying in ANY way that the McCain/Palin campaign is keeping things happy and peaceful either.
I'm saying that it's all broke - as I've said from the beginning.
The good thing is that I can have MY opinion and you can have YOURS. Then as a country we vote and decide. OR.... politics can try to bully and intimidate all into just following a party line and acquiesce without thought or reflection.
- Speaking of which.... jakee, from someone that isn't open about who he is - no profile, no background, no disclosure of your beliefs except that you seem quite angry that I don't hold your same political stance and I don't echo your passion. You seem quite upset that I chose to question and doubt. YOU do as much of a dis-service to the Obama campaign as anyone.
Where have I "deliberately misinterpret"ed your position? Which direct questions did I not answer... my last reply to you included post #'s for reference even. "Intellectually dishonest" - do you mean "Liar"? Are you just resorting to attacks now that the patronizing isn't working?
Obama Inciting Violence and Hate Against McCain
QuoteNor did Obama take issue with supporters at a rally in Philadelphia on Saturday who showed up wearing t-shirts with the words “Sarah Palin is a cunt” in big letters on them. Other Obama supporters carried signs saying that Bristol Palin should have been aborted. The Obama campaign nor Senator Obama did anything to discourage the hatred and violent remarks directed at McCain and Palin.
Bristol Palin should have been aborted?! WTF!
Liberal Outrage: A Pro-McCain March In Manhattan
Plus considering his personal relationships with those that absolutely do advocate violence, it just makes me very hesitant about him and his beliefs. I just don't trust him. Period.
And I'm not saying in ANY way that the McCain/Palin campaign is keeping things happy and peaceful either.
I'm saying that it's all broke - as I've said from the beginning.
The good thing is that I can have MY opinion and you can have YOURS. Then as a country we vote and decide. OR.... politics can try to bully and intimidate all into just following a party line and acquiesce without thought or reflection.
- Speaking of which.... jakee, from someone that isn't open about who he is - no profile, no background, no disclosure of your beliefs except that you seem quite angry that I don't hold your same political stance and I don't echo your passion. You seem quite upset that I chose to question and doubt. YOU do as much of a dis-service to the Obama campaign as anyone.
QuoteI got bored of being nice when it became apparent that you were going to do nothing but deliberately misinterpret my positions and twist away from answering any direct questions. You don't usually seem this intellectually dishonest, but you're doing it now and I've got no intention of accomodating it.
Where have I "deliberately misinterpret"ed your position? Which direct questions did I not answer... my last reply to you included post #'s for reference even. "Intellectually dishonest" - do you mean "Liar"? Are you just resorting to attacks now that the patronizing isn't working?
Shotgun 1
You still didn't answer my question. And you're really just coming across as having an irrational hatred for Obama. So I'm done trying to discuss this particular subject with you.
kbordson 8
QuoteYou still didn't answer my question. And you're really just coming across as having an irrational hatred for Obama. So I'm done trying to discuss this particular subject with you.
OK... maybe I'm not understanding your anger.
Why should my questions display and "irrational hatred"? I QUESTION him. I don't HATE him. There is a VERY BIG difference. Why should questions not be allowed?
And I think I did answer your question. You want me to say "well, since he didn't hold the knife in her hand" he's clear and free of blame. He's not, nor is McCain. Both have made efforts to incite emotion. That's what politics are all about. And even you seem to be playing into that. I specifically responded back to you and Nerdgirl because of respect that I had had for your opinions, I linked to sites that have made me question the campaign tactics. I see that as truly trying to answer the
and with respect to:Quoteyou're still trying to blame Obama for this?
Yes.... as I've been saying. It's BOTH parties that are playing this game.Quotewould you be saying that McCain is at fault for making someone hate him so much that they would beat up a young woman and carve a "B" in her face?
In fact.... like Mike, I am quite disappointed in the response of many of the regular posters on this forum. If someone has a varying opinion, it becomes a full onslaught and an attack of character. I have gotten threatening pm's, I have been insulted and called a liar, I have been attacked by because I don't openly praise Obama.
In all honesty, I have a lot more important issues in my life than trying to discuss politics with people that don't seem to have any level of respect for divergent thoughts.
kallend 2,099
Quote>There's plenty of video of McCain supporters calling Obama "traitor",
>"criminal" and "terrorist" at McCain rallies.
And vice versa; there have been plenty of Obama supporters calling McCain senile, a Manchurian candidate, a sugar daddy to Palin etc etc. But neither has come from the campaigns themselves.
Agreed on the "Manchurian candidate", that's just ignorant and silly.
However, the emotive content (that likely to lead to irrational action) comparisons of:
"Traitor" vs "senile"
"Terrorist" vs "Sugar Daddy"
seem somewhat lopsided to me.
I receive (and continue to receive) streams of negative chain emails about Obama, even this morning. I think I've received at least one of every one listed here. I have yet to receive one about McCain.
Edited to add:
"I'm very very happy to know that five former secretaries of state who I admire enormously -- Henry Kisssinger, Jim Baker, Larry Eagleburger, Al Haig, uh, eh, uh.": John McCain, Meet the Press, 10/26/08
He tried once again: "Jim Baker, Henry Kissinger, Al Haig, Larry Eagleburger, and one other." John McCain, Meet the Press, 10/26/08
Questioner: "How many houses do you and Mrs. McCain have?"
McCain: “I think — I’ll have my staff get to you. It’s condominiums where — I’ll have them get to you.”
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Shotgun 1
QuoteOK... maybe I'm not understanding your anger.
I don't have any anger. And of course you're welcome to your own opinion, even if I disagree with it.
Trent 0
I'll post again since I've been away and haven't seen the news nor the family since I posted. Clearly, the report has been found to be false.
Now, as a conservative, I again will state that it really makes me mad when people "on my side" do this kind of thing or do things to hurt the image of what conservatism should be. It's stupid and it never helps. As someone who knows the family, I worry about the girl and hope that they handle it well. For sure they aren't very happy about this either. I haven't seen them since this hit the news so I don't know.
As for the back and forth about blaming Obama etc etc and now blaming McCain for it being false... stupid. Obama didn't do it. McCain didn't make it up. This should show us the problem with news stories from any side (or even incident reports). How easily can false or falsely embellished stories make the news? Most people don't automatically assume that everything they hear is a lie. This is what happens. My comment about how it is ironic that a criminal would be an Obama supporter is a reference to the thread where illegally registered felons were mostly registered as democrats.
If I hear anything that can be posted here about the situation, I will. Otherwise, I just feel really bad for the girl and angry that she did that.
Now, as a conservative, I again will state that it really makes me mad when people "on my side" do this kind of thing or do things to hurt the image of what conservatism should be. It's stupid and it never helps. As someone who knows the family, I worry about the girl and hope that they handle it well. For sure they aren't very happy about this either. I haven't seen them since this hit the news so I don't know.
As for the back and forth about blaming Obama etc etc and now blaming McCain for it being false... stupid. Obama didn't do it. McCain didn't make it up. This should show us the problem with news stories from any side (or even incident reports). How easily can false or falsely embellished stories make the news? Most people don't automatically assume that everything they hear is a lie. This is what happens. My comment about how it is ironic that a criminal would be an Obama supporter is a reference to the thread where illegally registered felons were mostly registered as democrats.
If I hear anything that can be posted here about the situation, I will. Otherwise, I just feel really bad for the girl and angry that she did that.
Oh, hello again!
billvon 3,058
>Why should my questions display and "irrational hatred"? I QUESTION him.
Saying "my belief (is) that Obama's campaign policies led to events that came to this unfortunate situation" is not questioning him. It's blaming him.
McCain supports strongly supports gun ownership. Do his campaign policies therefore lead to events that cause gun crime? I don't think so.
Both candidates are making every appeal they can - to people's reason, people's morality and people's emotions. That's how they win elections, and indeed they would be remiss if they did not make such an attempt. Both campaigns have been pretty good about not getting too deep into the mud while doing that. Neither campaign has any blame for what psycho chicks, or murderers, or muggers, or bear hunters do.
>Then as a country we vote and decide. OR.... politics can try to bully
>and intimidate all into just following a party line and acquiesce without
>thought or reflection.
Absolutely. And I hope this discussion will lead you to reflect a bit on the situation, rather than just following the party line.
Saying "my belief (is) that Obama's campaign policies led to events that came to this unfortunate situation" is not questioning him. It's blaming him.
McCain supports strongly supports gun ownership. Do his campaign policies therefore lead to events that cause gun crime? I don't think so.
Both candidates are making every appeal they can - to people's reason, people's morality and people's emotions. That's how they win elections, and indeed they would be remiss if they did not make such an attempt. Both campaigns have been pretty good about not getting too deep into the mud while doing that. Neither campaign has any blame for what psycho chicks, or murderers, or muggers, or bear hunters do.
>Then as a country we vote and decide. OR.... politics can try to bully
>and intimidate all into just following a party line and acquiesce without
>thought or reflection.
Absolutely. And I hope this discussion will lead you to reflect a bit on the situation, rather than just following the party line.
>that religiously parrot the views of EITHER particular party.... look bad.
If you mean the wider view of politics (i.e. the methods by which groups of people make decisions) then yes, I'd agree. It showcases the baser parts of politics in general. A woman actually thought that faking a crime could advance her political cause, and that sentiment leads to a trivializing and sensationalizing of political causes. If anything good comes of this, it will be a public perception that such stunts don't work.
>It is true that you will never make everyone love you, but as President, I
>believe that you should be able to have respect of the people.
I agree. But that's not something you can enforce - it is only something you can earn. And historically, this has not been one of the worse campaigns; neither campaign has called the other candidate a bastard, a traitor or a criminal yet. That's not to say that there is no room for improvement, of course.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites