TrophyHusband 0 #26 October 30, 2008 hopefully lawrocket will jump in here and clarify the laws in california, but generally parents have authority over their childrens' medical care. elective abortions are just that, elective. i wouldn't think a parent could force a minor to have an elective abortion any more than they could force a minor to have a boob job. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #27 October 30, 2008 Quotehopefully lawrocket will jump in here and clarify the laws in california, but generally parents have authority over their childrens' medical care. elective abortions are just that, elective. i wouldn't think a parent could force a minor to have an elective abortion any more than they could force a minor to have a boob job. I see children with piercings which are under the age of even knowing what they are, much less the age of consent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #28 October 30, 2008 under age people drink alcohol too. what's your point? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #29 October 30, 2008 My point is that parent force children to have elective procedures all the time (piercings, vaccinations). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #30 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuote Right off the bat, you've got an underage girl who's pregnant, so I'm guessing her home-life isn't warm and loving. i just can't buy that. a teenager succumbing to the desire to get laid is in no way an indicator of the quality of home life. Many girls who are in a unhealthy/unhappy atmospheres (abusive home lives), yes will reach out and view sex as a form of love. I'm torn on this prop, primarily because the procedure does involve using anesthesia and some people can react very violently to anesthesia (even death). Although, the alternative; back ally abortion, forced to keep an unwanted child, abusive relationships, etc... I could go on and on... but it'd take us in too many directions.... g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #31 October 30, 2008 whether or not vaccinations are elective procedures is a debate unto itself. when you mentioned kids with piercings, teenagers came to mind, since we are talking about teenagers here. i envisioned a teenage boy being forced by his dad to get his eyebrow pierced. kind of a funny visual. you were obviously refering to babies getting there ears pierced before they are old enough to protest or even know that they are getting pierced. as with everything, there are exceptions so lets keep this in the realm of girls of childbearing age. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #32 October 30, 2008 Already voted - against it - for I forget how many times now. Seems like 4's backers can't take "no" for an answer... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #33 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote Right off the bat, you've got an underage girl who's pregnant, so I'm guessing her home-life isn't warm and loving. i just can't buy that. a teenager succumbing to the desire to get laid is in no way an indicator of the quality of home life. Many girls who are in a unhealthy/unhappy atmospheres (abusive home lives), yes will reach out and view sex as a form of love. g i agree with you there, but many happy, healthy young girls have sex too. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #34 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Right off the bat, you've got an underage girl who's pregnant, so I'm guessing her home-life isn't warm and loving. i just can't buy that. a teenager succumbing to the desire to get laid is in no way an indicator of the quality of home life. Many girls who are in a unhealthy/unhappy atmospheres (abusive home lives), yes will reach out and view sex as a form of love. g i agree with you there, but many happy, healthy young girls have sex too. Hypothetically speaking... Assuming they are happy & healthy is a result of a good home life - these girls are probably not afraid to approach their respective parent, and probably will. The other half of sexually active girls will now be forced into potentially dangerous territory, face a parent/guardian who may cause bodily harm, or face a back ally abortion that may cause bodily harm. The greater good for all girls is to allow them the right - lesser of two evils I guess. (OMG, I just made my decision). g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #35 October 30, 2008 QuoteAlthough, the alternative; back ally abortion, forced to keep (not kill) an unwanted child, abusive relationships, etc... Fixed it for you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #36 October 30, 2008 QuoteThe greater good for all girls is to allow them the right - lesser of two evils I guess. (OMG, I just made my decision). I agree.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #37 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteAlthough, the alternative; back ally abortion, forced to keep (not kill) an unwanted child, abusive relationships, etc... Fixed it for you Knowing your a adamantly pro-life, are you for or against prop for and why?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #38 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteAlthough, the alternative; back ally abortion, forced to keep (not kill) an unwanted child, abusive relationships, etc... Fixed it for you Dr.'s, everyday Joe(s), Priests, politicians all have different interpretations/beliefs as to when a fetus is actually considered a life. Unfortunately this is a very grey area, although some may see it as black and white.... I have my opinion, but I'm going to keep it to myself - not looking for a pro-life debate. g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #39 October 30, 2008 QuoteCan a parent force a minor to have a medical procedure they do not want? According to this page, the proposal QuoteRequires minor’s consent to abortion, with exceptions. Permits judicial relief if minor’s consent is coerced. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #40 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteAlthough, the alternative; back ally abortion, forced to keep (not kill) an unwanted child, abusive relationships, etc... Fixed it for you Knowing your a adamantly pro-life, are you for or against prop for and why? I am for it becuase I think it will cause less abortions to happen, and the parents should know before a doctor takes the scalpel and vacuum cleaner to your grand son/daughter when their child is a minor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #41 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteAlthough, the alternative; back ally abortion, forced to keep (not kill) an unwanted child, abusive relationships, etc... Fixed it for you Dr.'s, everyday Joe(s), Priests, politicians all have different interpretations/beliefs as to when a fetus is actually considered a life. Unfortunately this is a very grey area, although some may see it as black and white.... I have my opinion, but I'm going to keep it to myself - not looking for a pro-life debate. g I don't understand the grey area, you either think life starts at conception, or at some other "magical" time during a pregnancy. If you think that it does not start at conception, more power to you, as I am not 100% sure when life starts. However, what bothers me is people that are for this 10, 12, 14 year old ending her pregnancy, or some poor person who can't afford to have the kid, but will not stand behind "abortions for convienience", and would look down on someone who has had 4 or 5 abortions. There is either absolutley nothing wrong with the procedure, or it is the ending of a human life. If you are one of the people who thinks it is just a medical prcedure, stand up and delair that your are PRO ABORTION, because abortion is the name of the procedure, which you think is not the ending of a life, and pro means that you are for something. Why do people feel shame or distain for people who refer to them as Pro Abortion, or for the procedure you thing people should be able to have? Stand up for what you believe in proudly. I believe that abortion is the ending of an innocent life, and the only time it should EVER be considered is if the mother would die if she delivered the baby, then it is a choice between one of the two lives, and while it is a tough decision, it is still one that should be allowed to be made. Mark Klingelhoefer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #42 October 30, 2008 > There is either absolutley nothing wrong with the procedure, or it is > the ending of a human life. If you see it as that black or white I fear you will never have a grasp of how most people see abortion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #43 October 30, 2008 Quote> There is either absolutley nothing wrong with the procedure, or it is > the ending of a human life. If you see it as that black or white I fear you will never have a grasp of how most people see abortion. So it is sometimes alright to end a life, if the situation is right? Or is it not alright to carry out a medical prcedure that does not end a human life in some situations? mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #44 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAlthough, the alternative; back ally abortion, forced to keep (not kill) an unwanted child, abusive relationships, etc... Fixed it for you Knowing your a adamantly pro-life, are you for or against prop for and why? I am for it becuase I think it will cause less abortions to happen, and the parents should know before a doctor takes the scalpel and vacuum cleaner to your grand son/daughter when their child is a minor. I do not think it will result in less abortions. I do think it will result in more back alley abortions. That is why I'm against prop 4.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #45 October 30, 2008 >So it is sometimes alright to end a life, if the situation is right? Yes. Indeed, you yourself support such procedures. >Or is it not alright to carry out a medical prcedure that does not end >a human life in some situations? It is not alright to carry out a procedure that does not end a human life in some situations. An example would be forcing an adult to have chemotherapy if they do not want it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #46 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuote>minors can't even get there ears pierce without perental permission. An abusive father won't beat his child to death because she got her ears pierced. how often do girls get beat to death because they are pregnant? Probably rare. But severely beaten, or kicked out of the house, far less rare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #47 October 30, 2008 Quote Quote People that think shit like this is ok are the same ignorant people that think i should not be able to own a gun How the fuck does that follow? The two issues are totally unrelated. dude why even bother, irationale people dont need reasonYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #48 October 30, 2008 Quote>minors can't even get there ears pierce without perental permission. An abusive father won't beat his child to death because she got her ears pierced. Nor will an abusive father beat a child to deaht because she's pregnant. He'll probably do it because he's an abusive father. How many children are killed by parents each year who aren't pregnant? Edited to add: He'll also be charged with two counts of murder for killing the fetus/embryo/zygote. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #49 October 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteAlthough, the alternative; back ally abortion, forced to keep (not kill) an unwanted child, abusive relationships, etc... Fixed it for you Dr.'s, everyday Joe(s), Priests, politicians all have different interpretations/beliefs as to when a fetus is actually considered a life. Unfortunately this is a very grey area, although some may see it as black and white.... gWhich is why a legal interpretation was made.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #50 October 30, 2008 Quotehopefully lawrocket will jump in here and clarify the laws in california, but generally parents have authority over their childrens' medical care. elective abortions are just that, elective. Yes. Parents have authority except two circumstances: 1) Emergency treatment; and 2) Abortion. Yep. Which is why I am against this. A kid cannot be trusted to exercise sound judgment in getting a dental cleaning, but has sound judgment in abortion (obviously shown by the sound judgment in getting pregnant.) My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
