When do you think life starts?

[pirana 0]

It's a continuum. I think it would be difficult to think of even just a fertilized egg as not being alive. It certainly isn't dead. How about as soon as it makes it's first split? Or maybe after that crucial step (is it called encephalization?) where the little ball of cells turns itself inside out, forms kind of a tube of cells that take on special purpose and do something besides just randomly keep splitting?

For me the bigger question is sentience. I think once brain wave activity hits the level of being aware of and capable of responding to surroundings, life as we usually think about it has begun.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[klingeme 1]

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Can't say when "Life" starts.... BUT


a person only REALLY starts LIVING that very Instant that he or she first lets go of the airplane !!!
on that # One , Jump......

jmy

Point conceeded.

[rehmwa 2]

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For me the bigger question is sentience. I think once brain wave activity hits the level of being aware of and capable of responding to surroundings, life as we usually think about it has begun.

So again, it's subjective, but still:

around 19 years old for women
late 20's for men

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[tonyhathaway 0]

in indiana life begins at 20 weeks. If you're stillborn at 19, they just discard the fetus. If you're stillborn past 20 weeks, they make you have a birth certificate and a burial. Not my opinion, but the state of indiana.........

My O.C.D. has me chasing a dream my A.D.D. won't let me catch.

[Elisha 1]

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in indiana life begins at 20 weeks. If you're stillborn at 19, they just discard the fetus. If you're stillborn past 20 weeks, they make you have a birth certificate and a burial. Not my opinion, but the state of indiana.........

Interesting...never knew that.

[kallend 2,106]

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in indiana life begins at 20 weeks. If you're stillborn at 19, they just discard the fetus. If you're stillborn past 20 weeks, they make you have a birth certificate and a burial. Not my opinion, but the state of indiana.........

Well, the Indiana legislature has [url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill"] some strange ideas.[url]

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreece 190]

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When do you think life starts?

After 50?

got 20 years to go....

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[caress 0]

I voted conception also. Abortion is such a touchy subject for most folks. I think that now-a-days, there is just too many ways to prevent pregnancy, and the only way you should be getting an abortion is rape or insest, and that should be the mothers' choice. Back in the ol days when unwed pregnant mothers was frowned upon, I could see it being an issue then, but not now. Atleast for me, I could not do it ever ever ever. . There is just too many people out there who want kids and cant conceive. That is MHO-Caress

I believe that life starts at conception. That is when that beautiful child begins developing what comes in 9 months. I notice alot of men in this discussion. Of course the father should have some kind of say so, for petes' sake, that child is part of him too! Some ladies have a hard time with that fact. It is accepting the fact that you both decided to have sex in the first place, therefore any decisions concerning that life belong to both of you- period. That does not mean that everyone is going to accept responsibility for the actions. I think both men and women have shown to be step up challenged on this planet- not all of them but a whole lot of them. IMHO-Caress

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.

[quade 4]

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I voted conception also. Abortion is such a touchy subject for most folks. I think that now-a-days, there is just too many ways to prevent pregnancy, and the only way you should be getting an abortion is rape or insest, and that should be the mothers' choice. Back in the ol days when unwed pregnant mothers was frowned upon, I could see it being an issue then, but not now. Atleast for me, I could not do it ever ever ever. . There is just too many people out there who want kids and cant conceive. That is MHO-Caress

I believe that life starts at conception. That is when that beautiful child begins developing what comes in 9 months. I notice alot of men in this discussion. Of course the father should have some kind of say so, for petes' sake, that child is part of him too! Some ladies have a hard time with that fact. It is accepting the fact that you both decided to have sex in the first place, therefore any decisions concerning that life belong to both of you- period. That does not mean that everyone is going to accept responsibility for the actions. I think both men and women have shown to be step up challenged on this planet- not all of them but a whole lot of them. IMHO-Caress

I hardly know where to begin with this.

If life begins at "conception" (which is ill defined) then what is birth control by IUD?

Further, if the man has a voice in this after "conception" then once he has sex with a woman can he then demand she immediately remove the IUD?

The entire notion is preposterous.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[caress 0]

it is my opinion that life begins when conception occurs. That is my view of that. Sorry if that aint point blank enough for you. I do not believe that I said anything remotly close to a man has a right to say anything about a womans IUD. If they conceive, he has a right to voice a say in what happens with that child. He has a responsibility to take steps necessary to not conceive if that is what he is wanting to avoid. I am also saying that many people in this world male and female do not take responsibility for their actions. Also that many females do not allow the fathers of conceived children to have a voice and that is wrong. I just clicked on the last post posted, I was trying to discuss the original post. Sorry for any misunderstanding.-Caress

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.

[kallend 2,106]

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I voted conception also. Abortion is such a touchy subject for most folks. I think that now-a-days, there is just too many ways to prevent pregnancy, and the only way you should be getting an abortion is rape or insest, and that should be the mothers' choice.
....

Of course the father should have some kind of say so, for petes' sake, that child is part of him too! Some ladies have a hard time with that fact. It is accepting the fact that you both decided to have sex in the first place, therefore any decisions concerning that life belong to both of you- period.

Seems to be some serious contradiction between your two paragraphs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Cari 0]

"Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place? ....People say 'life begins at conception.' I say life began about about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process."
o George Carlin

[korbin 0]

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"Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place? ....People say 'life begins at conception.' I say life began about about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process."
o George Carlin

Good old Carlin.

Anyway, I personally believe that same view. We're talking about life here. There are millions of organic substances, cells, etc, that are living. Breaking it down to a human, well, isn't a sperm cell technically living?

If you need to throw a line down on it, lets throw it at birth, where there is an easily definable method of determining if they are a human or not.

And really, if we need to take it this far, the best argument IMO is to just mind your own business! If you don't like what someone else is doing, don't do it! As long as it is not affecting you, whats the problem?

[caress 0]

Only if the father of the child is a rapist or related to the mother!

I certainly dont think they have any rights at all except for to go to prison.

Guess I should have clarified that point.

Fathers that are NOT rapist or related to the mother of the baby should have a say in what happens with that childs' LIFE. I still think that abortion is wrong as a form of birth control.

There are situations where the abortion is performed without the consent of the father. That is not right. and there are situations where the father says I want you to get an abortion and the mother doesnt want to. This is wrong too. It happens alot. Any abortion from these situations- the child is paying the ultimate price for it. There are situations where both parents agree that abortion is okay. I am not okay with that. I feel that is so wrong. That doesnt change the fact that in America, people still have that choice. Sorry for not being more clear about it. It is my opinion and I apologized if my ranting further confuses you.-Caress

Life starts at the beginning. That's where mine started.

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.

[n23x 0]

What is the male's contribution to making a child? The male deposits semen.
What is the female's contribution? I think we can all agree: significantly more.

If there's such a disparity w/r/t male vs. female responsibilities during pregnancy, why should the partners have even remotely equal say in the decision to keep or abort?

In my opinion, to suggest that the male should have an equal (or really, any) say is pretty out of line. Further, if he's so concerned that all of his sperm actually generates babies, perhaps he should have discussed that with the perspective mother ahead of time.

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Fathers that are NOT rapist or related to the mother of the baby should have a say in what happens with that childs' LIFE.

Now this is fun!

A child of incest should be aborted... why? And to continue with this line of questioning, does your expected response open the door for couples choosing to abort based off of certain medical predispositions?

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[quade 4]

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it is my opinion that life begins when conception occurs.

Define "conception."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lewmonst 0]

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Life has never "stopped." Egg cells and sperm are alive - that does not mean that birth control is killing a human being. Blastocysts are alive - that does not mean that IUD's are equivalent to murder. Fetuses are alive - but that does not mean that abortions are murder.

The more important question is when does the fetus become a human being? I can see two good answers to that.

The first is the brain. The one thing that defines us as uniquely human is our mind. With a mind, someone is a whole person, even if their bodies are crippled. Without a mind, they are not human, and the only question that remains is how long to keep them alive mechanically.

The second is viability. Once a fetus can survive outside the womb, there's not much question that it is a human being.

In a fetus, the brain starts working at between 8-12 weeks. The fetus becomes viable after about 24 weeks. So choosing a line between those extremes, to me, would be defensible.

Agreed...

http://www.exitshot.com

[billvon 3,072]

>it is my opinion that life begins when conception occurs. That is my view of that.

If you believe that, then you must also logically believe that using an IUD is murder - since it causes a fertilized egg, one that could grow into a child, to die.

> I do not believe that I said anything remotly close to a man has a right
>to say anything about a womans IUD.

If someone is threatening to murder another with a gun, you have the right to try to take the gun away to prevent the crime. If life really does begin at conception, then a man has the right to take away the instrument a woman would use to murder the conceived fetus.

I suspect that you don't really think that life begins at conception, that there's a gray area between conception and implantation. Which is fine; I think most would agree with you.

[maadmax 0]

If you believe that, then you must also logically believe that using an IUD is murder - since it causes a fertilized egg, one that could grow into a child, to die.

I suspect that you don't really think that life begins at conception, that there's a gray area between conception and implantation. Which is fine; I think most would agree with you.

[quade 4]

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I guess that is one of the perks of replacing God's Reality with our own.

First a person would have to believe in God. Then the person would have to believe that God has actually communicated his intentions to somebody else who then properly wrote that down and all subsequent translations have also been correct. Then the person would also have to assume that certain passages written applied to a topic not actually covered by the original text.

Seems a bit presumptuous to claim a person knows what "God's Reality" is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[caress 0]

WOW is that really what an IUD does? I never knew that. Glad I never got one of those. Yes an IUD would be against all of my principals.-Caress

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.

[quade 4]

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WOW is that really what an IUD does? I never knew that. Glad I never got one of those. Yes an IUD would be against all of my principals.-Caress

What about birth control pills?

What about morning after pills?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,072]

>As a species we have a long history of destroying human life that is deemed
>inconvenient or undesirable, and then justifying it with some fabricated morality
>system.

Of course. Look how many people have been killed in the name of God.

>I guess that is one of the perks of replacing God's Reality with our own.

Less death? Less religious war? Fewer witches burned at the stake? Fewer blacks hanged? Fewer Islamic terrorists? Yes, those indeed are some perks with replacing an extremist religious morality with a more sane one.

[caress 0]

I believe in my original post that I did state that abortion in the cases of incest or rape was the only reasons to use it ever. I think I want to say that first.

As far as contributions to the development of a child. I guess how I feel about it has more to do with morality rather than who has to do the most work. I am sorry if you do not agree with my opinion on the subject. I just have a real problem with abortion as a form of birth control when there are so many options to avoid it.

You have the right to voice your opinion about my views that is the spirit of SC-Continue on-Caress

Medical predispositions-If something is medically wrong with that baby. I will have to think about that. I would say that would hold a possibilty of a yes it would be okay with me then. But I am thinking still on that.

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.

[caress 0]

I stand by what I said Quade, life begins at conception. If it kills a conceived egg then my views say yes. If the pill prevents conception then the answer is no.

Just for your indulgence into this matter further. When I was 14, I was on the pill. NO ONE EVER EVER DO THIS!(WHAT I AM ABOUT TO TELL) I took the pills ( the 21) and never took the 7 so you could bleed. I got 9 month supply at a time so I never took the 7, just kept taking the 21 so I never had a period and I did this the whole time I did birth control pills. I do not know what consequeses I will suffer from doing that to myself. I did it for a long time Quade over 3 years. When I did get married, and I wanted kids, I miscarried 5 of them. When I finally married the second time, I got pregnant. I now have 2 boys. I am happy, but I cant help but wonder if what I did with those pills back then had something to do with those miscarriages.

I guess the signifigence of telling you that story is because I anticipated you asking if I ever took the pill.-Caress

I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being
right.