California State Measure Updates (link)

[champu 1]

For any California folks who are interested here are the running totals.

Currently there's only about 17% of the precincts in.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

It appears bigotry against blacks is on the wane in America, but not so much for gays.

[LisaH 0]

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It appears bigotry against blacks is on the wane in America, but not so much for gays.

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[headoverheels 333]

Hard to believe it, but the CA voters are wrong on 7 out of 12.

[lawrocket 3]

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Hard to believe it, but the CA voters are wrong on 7 out of 12.

Huh???

I happen to disagree with California voters on 7 out of 12. but I won't say they are "wrong."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

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It appears bigotry against blacks is on the wane in America, but not so much for gays.

It appears Californians are about as hick-ish as any of the redneck states they mock. It's sad that they'd want to wipe out a ton of marriages that have already occurred and prevent others from happening in the future.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[lawrocket 3]

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It appears bigotry against blacks is on the wane in America, but not so much for gays.

It appears Californians are about as hick-ish as any of the redneck states they mock. It's sad that they'd want to wipe out a ton of marriages that have already occurred and prevent others from happening in the future.

Blues,
Dave

It may be surprising, but the very minorities who showed up in droves are the very groups that likely threw the final punches to pass Prop 8. Los Angeles County, for example, has seen a majority vote for it.

Look - the Black and Latino communities aren't that big on homosexuals. Look at the Latino Catholics - what do you expect them to do? And they voted in droves!!!

Add to that the white Christians and you've got a powerful voting bloc that creates a pretty damned broad coalition.

My "No" vote, and those of other like-minded persons, simply could not surpass the Yes votes of others who think or feel differently from me.

It is highly suspicious and DANGEROUS to blame this on white hicks. Trust me - it is far far broader than that. And such knee-jerk reactions lead me to believe that we have to come further as a society. It is just such knee-jerk reactions and stereotyping that brought about this measure's defeat.

I'll put it this way - if it were the white hicks who held the majority, Obama wouldn't have won California by 2.5 million votes. Prop 8 received in excess of 5.1 million votes. McCain received 3.6 million votes.

So there's something going on that is beyond "white hicks" that passed it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[downwardspiral 0]

you're absolutely right..the irony is beautiful. If it weren't for Obama, Prop 8 wouldn't have passed.

I voted no btw.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[livendive 8]

Nowhere did I say "white" in my post.

I think of "hick" as small-minded and bigoted. White, black, or latino makes no difference to me, a hick is a hick.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[guppie01 0]

sad....

1 step forward
1000 steps back

g

"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?"
Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU
OMG, is she okay?

[CMiller 1]

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I happen to disagree with California voters on 7 out of 12. but I won't say they are "wrong.

I will. It is WRONG to deny same sex couples the right to mary. So they're WRONG on one at least.

[downwardspiral 0]

Just wanted to update the link since the original isn't working anymore.

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/props/index.html

Also I wanted to say I'm shocked Prop 12 passed but I'm glad it did.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[BDashe 0]

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It appears bigotry against blacks is on the wane in America, but not so much for gays.

It appears Californians are about as hick-ish as any of the redneck states they mock. It's sad that they'd want to wipe out a ton of marriages that have already occurred and prevent others from happening in the future.

Blues,
Dave

edit: I like the south!

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[lawrocket 3]

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Nowhere did I say "white" in my post.

I think of "hick" as small-minded and bigoted. White, black, or latino makes no difference to me, a hick is a hick.

Blues,
Dave

Sorry about the accusation, Dave. However, how useful is it to ever say that another side is small-minded or bigoted? Doesn't that merely harden the walls between people? If someone tells me I'm small minded, I'd have the tendency to think that this person is being unreasonable and little progress can be made.

It happens on so many sides so often.

Just my thoughts. And my experience.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

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Just wanted to update the link since the original isn't working anymore.

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/props/index.html

Also I wanted to say I'm shocked Prop 12 passed but I'm glad it did.

10 and 7 surprised me. Pleasantly I might add

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Elisha 1]

11 (redistricting) passing was interesting...when I looked it up and noticed that two of the biggest opponents were Boxer and Pelosi.

[rushmc 23]

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11 (redistricting) passing was interesting...when I looked it up and noticed that two of the biggest opponents were Boxer and Pelosi.

Really!

I had not looked into that one.

Did your research indicate why they were against it?
Conversly, what was the idea and who proposed this in a ballot issue to begin with?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

It's not a redistricting plan. Rather, it's keeps the legislature out of redistricting and leaves it to an independent commission.

It was opposed by Boxer, Pelosi, the California Democratic party. Unions donated against it.

I'm sure that if the GOP was in charge, they ALSO would have come out against this Proposition.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

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It's not a redistricting plan. Rather, it's keeps the legislature out of redistricting and leaves it to an independent commission.

It was opposed by Boxer, Pelosi, the California Democratic party. Unions donated against it.

I'm sure that if the GOP was in charge, they ALSO would have come out against this Proposition.

Thank You

On the surface this looks to be a good deal.

Are there details as to how the members are selected?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

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Nowhere did I say "white" in my post.

I think of "hick" as small-minded and bigoted. White, black, or latino makes no difference to me, a hick is a hick.

Blues,
Dave

Sorry about the accusation, Dave. However, how useful is it to ever say that another side is small-minded or bigoted? Doesn't that merely harden the walls between people? If someone tells me I'm small minded, I'd have the tendency to think that this person is being unreasonable and little progress can be made.

It happens on so many sides so often.

Just my thoughts. And my experience.

I'm sure you're right that it's unproductive, and I don't really have a dog in this fight. Still, the only effect all these "yes" people can cause by their votes is pain to others with no gain to anyone. Given that, I don't feel particularly guilty about calling them the small-minded bigots that I believe them to be. I don't like watching people hurt others for no reason other than "they can".

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

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Nowhere did I say "white" in my post.

I think of "hick" as small-minded and bigoted. White, black, or latino makes no difference to me, a hick is a hick.

Blues,
Dave

Sorry about the accusation, Dave. However, how useful is it to ever say that another side is small-minded or bigoted? Doesn't that merely harden the walls between people? If someone tells me I'm small minded, I'd have the tendency to think that this person is being unreasonable and little progress can be made.

It happens on so many sides so often.

Just my thoughts. And my experience.

I'm sure you're right that it's unproductive, and I don't really have a dog in this fight. Still, the only effect all these "yes" people can cause by their votes is pain to others with no gain to anyone. Given that, I don't feel particularly guilty about calling them the small-minded bigots that I believe them to be. I don't like watching people hurt others for no reason other than "they can".

Blues,
Dave

It makes me wonder what name they might use for those of your mind set?

But, I guess you know you are right in any event.

In the end, calling someone a name or labeling them is a shitty attempt at silencing those with whom you do not agree.

PC at its height

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

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Nowhere did I say "white" in my post.

I think of "hick" as small-minded and bigoted. White, black, or latino makes no difference to me, a hick is a hick.

Blues,
Dave

Sorry about the accusation, Dave. However, how useful is it to ever say that another side is small-minded or bigoted? Doesn't that merely harden the walls between people? If someone tells me I'm small minded, I'd have the tendency to think that this person is being unreasonable and little progress can be made.

It happens on so many sides so often.

Just my thoughts. And my experience.

I'm sure you're right that it's unproductive, and I don't really have a dog in this fight. Still, the only effect all these "yes" people can cause by their votes is pain to others with no gain to anyone. Given that, I don't feel particularly guilty about calling them the small-minded bigots that I believe them to be. I don't like watching people hurt others for no reason other than "they can".

Blues,
Dave

It makes me wonder what name they might use for those of your mind set?

But, I guess you know you are right in any event.

In the end, calling someone a name or labeling them is a shitty attempt at silencing those with whom you do not agree.

PC at its height

The other side does the same thing, usually. It leads to both sides hurling insults at each other. It's where people talk at each other - and could go on for hours - with no real dialogue.

I guess my issue is this - I find the No on 8 crowd to be more reasonable and capable of articulation. I find the No on 8 supporters to be coming from a side of reason and not feeling.

I guess I have bigger expectations of them. I expect more. I expect better. Perhaps my expectations are too much.

And I mean no offens eon you, Dave. I think I owe you four beers now and some day hopefully we can drink nicely together. And I appreciate your candor.

But sometimes, I just expect better.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

I think I generally am more reasonable and articulate, and on this issue I likely will be again, sooner rather than later. But today, I just see a bunch of bullies going after "the homos", for no good reason, and I don't like it.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

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Nowhere did I say "white" in my post.

I think of "hick" as small-minded and bigoted. White, black, or latino makes no difference to me, a hick is a hick.

Blues,
Dave

Sorry about the accusation, Dave. However, how useful is it to ever say that another side is small-minded or bigoted? Doesn't that merely harden the walls between people? If someone tells me I'm small minded, I'd have the tendency to think that this person is being unreasonable and little progress can be made.

It happens on so many sides so often.

Just my thoughts. And my experience.

I'm sure you're right that it's unproductive, and I don't really have a dog in this fight. Still, the only effect all these "yes" people can cause by their votes is pain to others with no gain to anyone. Given that, I don't feel particularly guilty about calling them the small-minded bigots that I believe them to be. I don't like watching people hurt others for no reason other than "they can".

Blues,
Dave

It makes me wonder what name they might use for those of your mind set?

But, I guess you know you are right in any event.

In the end, calling someone a name or labeling them is a shitty attempt at silencing those with whom you do not agree.

PC at its height

The other side does the same thing, usually. It leads to both sides hurling insults at each other. It's where people talk at each other - and could go on for hours - with no real dialogue.

I guess my issue is this - I find the No on 8 crowd to be more reasonable and capable of articulation. I find the No on 8 supporters to be coming from a side of reason and not feeling.

I guess I have bigger expectations of them. I expect more. I expect better. Perhaps my expectations are too much.

And I mean no offens eon you, Dave. I think I owe you four beers now and some day hopefully we can drink nicely together. And I appreciate your candor.

But sometimes, I just expect better.

Points well taken.

I too meant no disrespect. I was only trying to make one look at the other side.

I agree with the vote but, that said, I do not think the same legal advantages should be kept from same sex couples who wish to make a legal bond.

I see marriage as a religious bond and therefore see the attempt to legalize " gay marriage" as yet another attack on those who believe.

Thought I should set my position out seeing as I posted here.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Exactly. And the other side is similarly emotional, seeign it the other way, rejoicing that they prevented a bunch of bullies from changing what marriage, the religious rite, is all about.

Now - somewhere in the middle both sides could meet. And taking emotion and defensiveness and offensiveness out of it could yield results.

My wife is hotter than your wife.