Good news for Christians from the world of science

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Are you suggesting that logic plays no more a role in our thought process than it did in primates a million years ago?

No, I'm suggesting that instincts and emotions still play a primary role in our thought process.

I never said they didn't. In fact, I have said here more than once thet they still do play a major role in our thought process. What I said was that, in my opinion, someday they won't. Someday being a long, long time from now.

You have yet to supply any evidence, examples, etc... supporting your assumption (that logic has replaced instincts and emotions).

I am most sorry if you can not understand my opinion on the subject. I have given what i consider a good example of what will happen, but evidently it was not made clear enough for you to comprehend. If that is not good enough then try this...
IT IS A FUCKING OPINION! If you don't like it, FUCKING TOUGH!

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[JohnDeere 0]

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What church did you step into that discriminated against anyone?

Are you aware of just what went down in California with Prop 8?

Oh yea or Obama's church!!!!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[philh 0]

"If the awareness of spiritual truth was ever removed from our consciousness, "
what is spiritual truth?

[jakee 1,489]

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Hey...Jakee! It's only a feakin' loose prediction, not a hypothesis that will be submitted to any scientific journal for peer review!
Get the fuck over it.

Ooh, you're a tecthy little thing when you don't get your way.

I'm just pointing out that your 'hypothesis' does not support your original assertion that the abolition of religion would be dangerous. If you don't like people pointing out when you're being inconsistent, don't be inconsistent.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Hey...Jakee! It's only a feakin' loose prediction, not a hypothesis that will be submitted to any scientific journal for peer review!
Get the fuck over it.

Ooh, you're a tecthy little thing when you don't get your way.

I'm just pointing out that your 'hypothesis' does not support your original assertion that the abolition of religion would be dangerous. If you don't like people pointing out when you're being inconsistent, don't be inconsistent.

Where did I ever make the claim that it would be dangerous? All I ever suggested was that emotion and compassion would eventually be displaced from the decision making process. You are free to disagree with that. You posted a thread asking why religius types dislike the scientific community. Well, your attitude in this thread is a perfect example. You can't just listen and take it for what it is worth, you feel some need to prove that person wrong in some way. Just as the religions have their extreme fringe groups that cannot accept people having different views from their own, so does science and technology. And you seem to be trying your best to fit in that group.
But, whatever you say, schoolboy. You have read all about about in your books so obviously you know more about my opinions than I do. I sincerely apologize for ever suggesting that you were anything less than a concise collection of all the worlds knowledge, both present and future.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,489]

Having memory problems? I hear that's a danger in old age.

"Religion does have it's place in society, but that niche is slowly being eroded away.
The danger in this lies in the future..."

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You can't just listen and take it for what it is worth, you feel some need to prove that person wrong in some way.

As I said, if you can't handle people pointing out your inconsistencies and logical flaws, then either don't make them or don't say them out loud. You led into this thread with a judgement about the value of religion in society, I don't know why you have such a major problem with me disagreeing with it, and pointing out that you haven't backed it up.

In case you hadn't noticed this is a forum for discussion. I am at a loss as to why you think it is a forum for you to speak and others to listen.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[nerdgirl 0]

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Eons ago when primates first started to walk upright and our ancestors separated from the rest of their kin, virtually all decisions were made via instinct or emotion. Rational thought was just starting to influence what those primates did when confronted with having to make a choice. As time went one and evolution created a smarter, stronger, bigger, and more creative creature those decisions were made with a more and more rational thought process.

Today's humans make decisions based upon a combination of emotion and fact.

My prediction, and it is just that..a prediction that you are free to disagree with...is that someday in the distant future virtually, if not all, decisions and choices will be made with no regard for emotion.

I think you’re selecting on the wrong variable.

There’s no evidence of which I am aware that there have been significant physiological changes in the human brain over the last 100,000 years or so. Certainly hasn’t been over the last 400 or so years since the Scientific Revolution. If there was such a fundamental change in logic capability, there would need to be a concurrent change in brain cognitive capacity. Rather I would attribute the rise in apparent “logic” being due to rise in institutions and rise in capacity to record and transmit information.

Otoh, over the last 10,000 years or so we’ve seen the rise of institutions, notably first cities. The rise of such basic institutions allow for segregation/separation of labor and allow for specialization that enables more rational planning, implementation, and execution. That doesn’t mean it’s ‘high logic’ by early 21st Century standards; nonetheless it took more logic than prehistoric hunter-gatherer groups were capable of to build the pyramids (Egyptian and Mayan), Angkor Wat, etc.

Of course, one of those institutions that arose with civilization was organized religion.

I would suggest that the other significant independent variable is capacity to record and transmit data. More information can enable more “logical”/reasoned/informed decisions. Starting with invention of writing (~7000 years ago), that capacity was significantly accelerated with movable type, the vacuum tube, the transistor, and age of silicon.

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Stop thinking of future society as resembling anything we have now. I'm not talking in the next 20 year, 100 years, 200 years...I'm talking thousands or hundreds of thousands of years into the future. As mankind evolves from an instinctual and emotional being into a more logical one, the idea of politics and politicians will become extinct. ALL members of society will be what we now consider scientists therefore all leaders so shall be.

The singularity?

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Belgian_Draft 0]

#1: Saying there is a danger in a possible scenario does not mean the outcome is dangerous. Two totally independent paths there, son.
Example: "I am going to drive to my girlfriends house today. I plan to take route 3, but there is a danger that it is closed to construction and I will have to take route 4 which is the same distance."
It's all in the semantics.

#2. " I don't know why you have such a major problem with me disagreeing with it, and pointing out that you haven't backed it up."

Because it is an OPINION. Get over the idea that everything in life has to be backed up with evidence or in some way justified.

#3: "In case you hadn't noticed this is a forum for discussion. I am at a loss as to why you think it is a forum for you to speak and others to listen."

Exactly! It is a forum for DISCUSSION, not a forum where one must provide evidence for everything they say. If you want to take part in that kind if forum there are plenty of them on the net. And it IS a place for me to speak and others to listen. It is also a place for others to speak and ME to listen. What it IS NOT is a place to have to defense everything one posts. You don't like what someone says? Fine! Tell them so! But don't expect everyone to debate you on every topic that you disagree with. It is, after all, a SKYDIVING forum, not a screening for the ASME "Mechanical Engineering" jounal.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,489]

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Example: "I am going to drive to my girlfriends house today. I plan to take route 3, but there is a danger that it is closed to construction and I will have to take route 4 which is the same distance."
It's all in the semantics.

But that's not what you said, and you know it.

There is no semantic game that you can play that will get you away from the fact that you said that if religion is eliminated then compassion and charity would vanish and that would be a bad (dangerous) thing. Either that's what you meant, or you made a mistake in your post.

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Because it is an OPINION. Get over the idea that everything in life has to be backed up with evidence or in some way justified.

So you have a problem with me disagreeing with you because it forced you to admit that your opinion is unjustified?

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Exactly! It is a forum for DISCUSSION, not a forum where one must provide evidence for everything they say. If you want to take part in that kind if forum there are plenty of them on the net.

And here you are, still trying to tell me what I can and can't say to you. If you don't want to defend your position, that's just fine. But why act like such a brat about it when someone comes along and points out the holes and inconsistencies? If your opinion is so precious to you that you can't stand to see it punctured, then it might be a good idea to keep it to yourself.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

"There is no semantic game that you can play that will get you away from the fact that you said that if religion is eliminated then compassion and charity would vanish and that would be a bad (dangerous) thing. Either that's what you meant, or you made a mistake in your post. "
That is what I posted, except i never said it would be a bad thing. That is an assumption you made, and we both know how dangerous (there's that word again!) assumptions can be. I have no idea of whether it will be good or bad, only that it will be different.
I have no problem at all with you disagreeing with me. You, on the other hand, have a problem with those who don't agree with you. Otherwise you wouldn't be so insistant they prove their opinion stand up to all scrutiny. I don't profess to tell you what you can and can't say. Say whatever you want.
Or are you going to continue crying because I don't agree with you?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Butters 0]

Don't you think you've paid your toll ... just cross the bridge and burn it behind you.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[maadmax 0]

what is spiritual truth?

[jakee 1,489]

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That is what I posted, except i never said it would be a bad thing. That is an assumption you made, and we both know how dangerous (there's that word again!) assumptions can be.

Notice how you used the word dangerous there in a negative context, as in possibly wrong? That's how the word is used. No one ever said "There's a danger that this might make us all unbelievably happy, wealthy and successfull" or "There's a danger this plan will work perfectly" - unless they were being ironic. There is a clear negative connotation.

You're also bypassing the point that in your original post you posited this new logical world as the result of religion disappearing, yet in the following posts you change to hypothesisng a new logical world as the inevitable result of human evolution (Doubt it, have you seen who's doing all the breeding these days?) and not caused by the downfall of religion at all. It's inconsistent,

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You, on the other hand, have a problem with those who don't agree with you.

I'm just pointing out why I disagree with you, and questioning the aspects of your hypothesis that I see as being faulty. You're the one who's throwing insults around because you don't like people being nasty to your ideas.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

You're also bypassing the point that in your original post you posited this new logical world as the result of religion disappearing, yet in the following posts you change to hypothesisng a new logical world as the inevitable result of human evolution (Doubt it, have you seen who's doing all the breeding these days?) and not caused by the downfall of religion at all. It's inconsistent,

I know you aren't really as idiotic as you are posing. But, just in case, I'll explain it to you very simply. Religion disappears AS A RESULT of logical thinking taking over. Clear enough? One takes over by forcing the other out. My dog understands it perfectly well.

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You, on the other hand, have a problem with those who don't agree with you.

I'm just pointing out why I disagree with you, and questioning the aspects of your hypothesis that I see as being faulty. You're the one who's throwing insults around because you don't like people being nasty to your ideas.

[Butters 0]

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Religion disappears AS A RESULT of logical thinking taking over.

So you believe that religion isn't logical ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Absolutely. Religion is about as logical as the toothe fairy, but I don't look down upon those who practice religion unless they try forcing it upon me.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Butters 0]

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Absolutely. Religion is about as logical as the toothe fairy, but I don't look down upon those who practice religion unless they try forcing it upon me.

Open your eyes, religion is being forced upon you.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[HellFreak 0]

If you strip away the emotion and fear that most religions feed their flock and dissect with a clear mind...how could religion be logical?

Two words that get you in trouble, ALWAYS and NEVER

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Absolutely. Religion is about as logical as the toothe fairy, but I don't look down upon those who practice religion unless they try forcing it upon me.

Open your eyes, religion is being forced upon you.

That is another subject that i really don't care to get into.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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If you strip away the emotion and fear that most religions feed their flock and dissect with a clear mind...how could religion be logical?

I don't know why you are asking me. I've already stated that i don't feel religion is logical.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,489]

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I know you aren't really as idiotic as you are posing. But, just in case, I'll explain it to you very simply. Religion disappears AS A RESULT of logical thinking taking over. Clear enough? One takes over by forcing the other out. My dog understands it perfectly well.

I know that's what you are saying now. I'm just reminding you that it's the opposite of what you said in your first post. In your first post you state very clearly that logic will take over and compassion disappear as a result of religion disappearing. Feel free to admit that you made a mistake in saying that.

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You didn't like the answer I gave, you whined.

Sorry old man. I questioned, you whinged (and whinged and whinged) about being questioned. The record is perfectly clear there!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I know you aren't really as idiotic as you are posing. But, just in case, I'll explain it to you very simply. Religion disappears AS A RESULT of logical thinking taking over. Clear enough? One takes over by forcing the other out. My dog understands it perfectly well.

I know that's what you are saying now. I'm just reminding you that it's the opposite of what you said in your first post. In your first post you state very clearly that logic will take over and compassion disappear as a result of religion disappearing. Feel free to admit that you made a mistake in saying that.

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You didn't like the answer I gave, you whined.

Sorry old man. I questioned, you whinged (and whinged and whinged) about being questioned. The record is perfectly clear there!

Whine whine whine whine...........

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

(Sigh) 121 replies and not one on topic. What did you think of the film? Do you think we can find a cure for Christianity some day?

[jakee 1,489]

Answer a question. Any question...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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(Sigh) 121 replies and not one on topic. What did you think of the film? Do you think we can find a cure for Christianity some day?

Interesting satire. Probably pisses of the Christians to no end, but what the hell. It's good to get pissed off once in a while.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.