kelpdiver 2 #76 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuoteI like reading Kallend write a vague misleading definition of misdirection and misrepresentation. Please provide a link to the post where I wrote a definition of either word. A perfect reply, in the spirit of this rapidly decaying thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #77 November 19, 2008 Right up until the "scholarly" input I thought we had one. meh....might as well return to the bonfire. At least it's entertaining! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #78 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuoteYes I do thank you. The proper spelling is "straw man". So why are you using it incorrectly? You both seem confused. http://www.wilddamntexan.com/kids/demotivators/Strawman.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #79 November 19, 2008 Those are TOOTHPICKS!!!! smarty drawers.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #80 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I like reading Kallend write a vague misleading definition of misdirection and misrepresentation. Please provide a link to the post where I wrote a definition of either word. A perfect reply, in the spirit of this rapidly decaying thread. Is that your way of admitting that you were wrong?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #81 November 19, 2008 more of a backhanded compliment, as you were well aware. It would be misguided to misrepresent it as anything else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yarpos 4 #82 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuote and also there is a generally law abiding and respectful culture there, more so than I have experienced anywhere else. Would that respect account for the rate of handgun homicides being larger than, say France, Germany or the UK? Or the total rate of firearms deaths in Switzerland exceeding that over every other country in western Europe except Finland? Or that Geneva's homicide rate exceeds that of Berlin, Paris or London and is only slightly behind Belfast? yes I think the comment about the general culture stands in spite of the stats. It really depends on who the incidents involve , and how far it affects daily life. Its hard to imagine a quiter, safer environment....can also get boring. Sadly they also have a vey high suicide rate. Re the overall rates being higher than others in Europe, maybe so , higher than some lower than others in all EU, but they are all off a very low base compared with the US. Re Geneva, anything that happens there doesnt really extrapolate to being representative of Switzerland. Its dominated by internationals and hordes of French day workers as its basically wrapped in French territory except for a narrow strip up Lake Geneva.regards, Steve the older I get...the better I was Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #83 November 19, 2008 Plenty of material has been written about the correlation between gun ownership and violent crime. Feel free to read some for yourself. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp http://www.truepatriot.com/crime_stats_page.html This is a quick copy from someone else who copiled much of the info here. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071018172134AA4qRbk I just added additional info taken from the above mentioned web sites. 20% of U.S. Violent Crime occurs in 4 cities: New York, Chicago, Washington D.C., & Detroit. These cities have near prohibition laws regarding handgun ownership. 1976- Washington, D.C. enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Effect: Murder has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%. New York City - Up 15% between 1998 and 1999. The SAME timeframe that new handgun restrictions came into effect. In 1986, Florida Adopted the Right-To-Carry law, allowing citizens to carry firearms. The results from 1987-1996: Homicide Rate: DECREASED 36% The entire U.S -.4% Homicide by Firearm: DECREASED 37% The entire U.S +15% Homicide by Handgun: DECREASED 41% The entire U.S +24% Americans use firearms to defend themselves from criminals at least 764,000 times a year. This figure is the lowest among a group of 9 nationwide surveys done by organizations including Gallup and the Los Angeles Times. In 1982, a survey of imprisoned criminals found that 34% of them had been "scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim." 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense. As of 1998, no permit holder has ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life. In the early/mid 1990's, criminals on parole or early release from prison committed about 5,000 murders, 17,000 rapes, and 200,000 robberies a year 93% of Police officers believe law-abiding citizens should be able to purchase a firearm for self-defense or sport. Hell, even John Stossel did a piece on guns in America http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLuTjguJA I'm not quite sure why it's so hard for people to understand that regulating and restricting law abiding citizen's rights to keep and bear arms does nothing but shift the balance of power in favor of violent offenders. Criminals will carry weapons regardless of the law. Don't believe it, just ask them. Violent offenders prefer unarmed victims because they make for easy prey. It's not really a hard thing to wrap your mind around...... Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SarahC07 0 #84 November 19, 2008 This thread pisses me off. Not the original poster or his question, but all the bull shit. Causation vs correlation. bite me. No, not all Americans walk around carrying fire arms. I own, have a CHL, do not carry, but keep a 9 mm under my bed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #85 November 19, 2008 QuoteI have been to the States a couple of times for great holidays. Would I be right in saying that when walking around most cities a lot of people would be carrying hand guns.. or have them in their cars etc. What about walking around Disneyland or going to las Vegas would alot of people be carrying firearms or is that just a myth and people just have them at home. Not a joke just wondering. You have struck on the beauty of concealed handgun permits. You (nor the bad guys) never know who has a firearm or where it is. That's why the crime rate drops in every state that has passed a concealed carry law. Bad guys are like any other predators. They seek the weakest possible victim, which is not usually the person with a gun. And remember, when it all goes to hell, it won't be cash or gold that rules. It will be bullets and gasoline.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #86 November 19, 2008 Nice impartial sources you use there, Chief.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #87 November 19, 2008 Quote Nice impartial sources you use there, Chief. Gee, that response was hard to predict coming from a whiney liberal like yourself Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #88 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuote Nice impartial sources you use there, Chief. Gee, that response was hard to predict coming from a whiney liberal like yourself Ooooh!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #89 November 19, 2008 The sources may be biased but that doesn't make the data any less accurate, it only increases the chances that it is less accurate. You wouldn't expect him to post data from the Brady Center, would you? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #90 November 19, 2008 Quote The sources may be biased but that doesn't make the data any less accurate, it only increases the chances that it is less accurate. You wouldn't expect him to post data from the Brady Center, would you? Well, we can't expect him to accept anything as fact unless it comes with Nancy Pelosi's personal stamp of approval........ Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #91 November 20, 2008 Quote Quote The sources may be biased but that doesn't make the data any less accurate, it only increases the chances that it is less accurate. You wouldn't expect him to post data from the Brady Center, would you? Well, we can't expect him to accept anything as fact unless it comes with Nancy Pelosi's personal stamp of approval........ Ummm... does she run the FBI, then? That's where I got my numbers.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #92 November 20, 2008 Quote Ummm... does she run the FBI, then? That's where I got my numbers. You just said "According to the FBI blah blah" Feel free to share the actual source of your information so we can look at it with our own eyes. I did. You're quoting violent crime statistics, that's it. Again, your changing the subject. There's plenty of violent crime in this country that doesn't involve legally obtained firearms. Where is the correlation between legal gun ownership and violent crime in the stats that you referenced? You're obviously more than willing to dismiss any source that isn't "impartial" yet, you offer no credible information to the contrary. Feel free to educate the rest of us. Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #93 November 20, 2008 Quote Ummm... does she run the FBI, then? That's where I got my numbers. That's the same FBI numbers that show "disarmed" DC with astronomically high crime numbers, yes?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #94 November 20, 2008 Quote Quote Ummm... does she run the FBI, then? That's where I got my numbers. That's the same FBI numbers that show "disarmed" DC with astronomically high crime numbers, yes? DC is disarmed? What are you smoking?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #95 November 20, 2008 Quote Quote Ummm... does she run the FBI, then? That's where I got my numbers. You just said "According to the FBI blah blah" Feel free to share the actual source of your information so we can look at it with our own eyes. I did. You're quoting violent crime statistics, that's it. Again, your changing the subject. There's plenty of violent crime in this country that doesn't involve legally obtained firearms. Where is the correlation between legal gun ownership and violent crime in the stats that you referenced? You're obviously more than willing to dismiss any source that isn't "impartial" yet, you offer no credible information to the contrary. Feel free to educate the rest of us. www.fbi.gov feel free to check for yourself.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #96 November 20, 2008 kallend changing the subject in straw man tactics? Sacre bleu! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #97 November 20, 2008 Quote kallend changing the subject in straw man tactics? Sacre bleu! Yeah, he's pretty unpredictable So here you go, Kallend. You previously dismissed DrewEkardt's claim that one's risk of falling victim to a violent crime was greater in the U.K than it is in the U.S. Well, he's right. The stats come directly from the U.S Department of Justice. Even though we still have more murders in the U.S. the U.K still leads us in violent crime such as Robbery, Assault, and Burglary.Hell, they even lead us in car theft. I'm sure you'll be unable to see any correlation between the dramatic rise in these crime rates and the Firearms act of 1988 http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cjusew96a.pdf Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #98 November 20, 2008 Quote Quote kallend changing the subject in straw man tactics? Sacre bleu! Yeah, he's pretty unpredictable So here you go, Kallend. You previously dismissed DrewEkardt's claim that one's risk of falling victim to a violent crime was greater in the U.K than it is in the U.S. Well, he's right. The stats come directly from the U.S Department of Justice. Even though we still have more murders in the U.S. the U.K still leads us in violent crime such as Robbery, Assault, and Burglary.Hell, they even lead us in car theft. I'm sure you'll be unable to see any correlation between the dramatic rise in these crime rates and the Firearms act of 1988 http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cjusew96a.pdf Apparently you didn't read all the way to the end of the report.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #99 November 20, 2008 Pssst I bought another one today Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #100 November 20, 2008 Interesting. I sold one today. I had bought a six-pack of Sig '40's from a friend of mine with a FFL - decided I could let one go when another friend just HAD to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
