JohnRich 4 #1 November 14, 2008 News:President-elect Barack Obama has made helping the troubled US car industry a "high priority" of his administration. Mr Obama urged President George Bush to back the deal during his first Oval Office talks at the White House on Monday... Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/obama-backs-pound33bn-loans-for-car-industry-1014893.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #2 November 14, 2008 I agree with both Bush and Obama...this is all great news. EDIT Just was wondering what the hold up was on the already approved 25 billion.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caress 0 #3 November 14, 2008 What does the the carmakers want? What do we want, the american people want? What do the people who work there want? Do you think that if the auto industry fails in this country everything will still be fine? What else can we do? I know that you present alot of issues here John, but do you have any alternatives? Or is griping about this going to change anything? I didnt want the bail out to go to paying for abuse of funds. but that is where it seems to be going alot of the time. I do not know what to do. I sure as hell dont think btching about O is going to get us anywhere-especially since all you can do is speculate about what the outcome of his plans is going to be.-caress I've learned.... That being kind is more important than being right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #4 November 15, 2008 I want the auto industry to be run like NASA. We were supposed to have mass production flying vehicles by now.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #5 November 15, 2008 Sorry if you were offended by the title of my post:"Bush wants $25B in loans released to carmakers"...it was just the heading on the AP news story.... The strange thing is that if you go back to the story, they changed the heading to:"Senate will debate $25 billion auto bill Monday" ...and the story has been re-written.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #6 November 15, 2008 I don't want one cent of taxpayer $$ going to another industry. Fuck that. Let capitalism run its course. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #7 November 15, 2008 Quote I don't want one cent of taxpayer $$ going to another industry. Fuck that. Let capitalism run its course. The money is supposed to go for research and development for fuel efficient cars... like the competition has been doing for 10 years. Let Toyota and Honda buy GM and Ford. They can immediately scrap all the worst 10 useless models that no one is buying. There are car manufacturers, building cars in the US, who are making business decisions based on common sense. The market has already made its decision with their wallets. Why give them more taxpayers money to continue on in their mistakes? Welcome to capitalism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #8 November 15, 2008 QuoteWhy give them more taxpayers money to continue on in their mistakes? What mistakes are those?...inventing cars? Giving your employee's a good life? Supporting every person that has ever worked for you untill they die and than supporting their family?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #9 November 15, 2008 >What mistakes are those? Failing while other companies succeeded, mainly. I mean, Enron invented some cool markets, gave their employees good lives and supported their families, but it doesn't mean we should prop them up when they turned out to not be able to make much "real" money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #10 November 15, 2008 QuoteFailing while other companies succeeded, mainly. I mean, Enron invented some cool markets, gave their employees good lives and supported their families, but it doesn't mean we should prop them up when they turned out to not be able to make much "real" money. I don't think the auto industry was as crooked as Enron...if that even matters? And I think most people that want to support the auto indusrty probably would favor some type of restructuring. Also, I don't remember Enron causing significant economic effects that would cause a ripple effect like the one threatened by the auto industry.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #11 November 15, 2008 Quote>What mistakes are those? Failing while other companies succeeded, mainly. I mean, Enron invented some cool markets, gave their employees good lives and supported their families, but it doesn't mean we should prop them up when they turned out to not be able to make much "real" money. Toyota makes cars in the US. So does Honda. Both companies are paying employees who live in the US. GM and Ford should make cars that compete with the Camry or the Accord. They should dump whatever model is selling in the bottom 10%. GM should quit making brands that compete with other GM subsidiaries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #12 November 15, 2008 QuoteFailing while other companies succeeded Isn't it right that other foreign companies succeeded in part by funding from their government?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #13 November 15, 2008 how about doing away with The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regulations. Let the market work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #14 November 15, 2008 >I don't think the auto industry was as crooked as Enron...if that even >matters? For the most part, no. But you were talking about impacting all the people who worked for Enron/GM - and in both cases, the low-level employees were not involved in the decision that made them crooked or not. They just lost/are losing their jobs. >Also, I don't remember Enron causing significant economic effects that >would cause a ripple effect like the one threatened by the auto industry. It did indeed cause serious economic problems both in Houston and throughout the country. Most of that effect has been overlooked, though, because of what happened at the same time Enron collapsed. >Isn't it right that other companies succeeded in part by funding from their >government? Yep. That's not an argument to emulate them, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #15 November 15, 2008 >how about doing away with The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) >regulations. Given that oil has hit over $100 a gallon - and our nation is threatened with economic collapse due to energy prices - such a strategy would be idiotic. GM and Ford can make cars that are every bit as economical as Honda and Toyota if they so choose, so the CAFE requirements are no more onerous to GM than to anyone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #16 November 15, 2008 Isn't it right that other companies succeeded in part by funding from their government? >Yep. That's not an argument to emulate them, though. True. I was just alluding to the possibility that it might not be fair to compare the sucess of a foreign company to that of the US auto industry. There are different variables at play.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #17 November 15, 2008 I'm going to post my favorite quote w/r/t the big 3: QuoteOnly retards buy American cars and get bent because they fall apart so soon, should have gone with honda or toyota. CAFE isn't holding them down. Poor business choices over a long goddamn time and no foresight are the cause of them circling the toilet. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #18 November 15, 2008 Perhaps one day, ina perfect world we will all work for foreign companies and buy only foreign goods because they're sooooooooo superior. Why should we put up our money when all the other countries are willing to make the investment and provide us a better way of life. We should just give up.... God forbid however that they take over our greatest export...media entertainment. Have you ever watched Japaneese TV? (other than Ninja Warrior...That's a good one) EDIT We should probably just give up on space too...that money could go for more practical things...nobody really cares about mars neway. Let the Chinese take that one.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #19 November 15, 2008 Quotehow about doing away with The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regulations. Let the market work. The market didn't work very well - oil spiked to $146/barrel. What made it go down? Us consuming less. We should be upping the CAFE standard, as a matter of national security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #20 November 15, 2008 You're right! We should reward low quality productions that won't be profitable without significant bailouts. We should also reward companies that refuse to look towards the future, and are incapable of adaptation. If you're primarily worried about the welfare of Americans (which is what I perceive to be the gist of your post), there are better ways to help those citizens rather than delaying the death of some dinosaurs. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #21 November 15, 2008 Quote there are better ways to help those citizens rather than delaying the death of some dinosaurs. How can America survive without it's heart? I hope we haven't lost ours.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsFC_o10N2w&feature=related Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #22 November 15, 2008 QuoteWe were supposed to have mass production flying vehicles by now. We are actually supposed to be driving zero emission cars by now but the Greedy corporations decided they we not ready to let go of the gas guzzlers yet, to their own demise. The EV1 was built last century in Detroit and only because the California govornment mandated a cerain percentage of Zero emission vehicles by a certain timeframe, All of the EV1's were recalled and scrapped. They (US car compaies) are greedy ass idiots foir doing that. It must have had soemthing to do with pil monopolies as they were onto a sure winner but they were hesitant in selling them an only leased them to high rollers. With a bit of luck they will sort thier shit out, push the chevy volt and similar cars ASAFP then the US carmakers could regain thier strength. The USA has cheap labour, that is something positive."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #23 November 15, 2008 and those cars are not selling. It's stupid, if People want a 8 mpg car let them buy them. If not the market will cause them to smarten up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,326 #24 November 15, 2008 You wanna see something happen in Corporate America? Place the same requirements on public corporations as private corporations. If you do not maintain budget; it reflects on the Cash Flow Report. Then you have to go to the BoD to hit the line of credit at the bank. If you max out the line of credit; the CFO has to raise his/her hand to the BoD (owners/shareholders) for a "Cash Call." In Chrysler's case, the union is a prominent investor in the automaker.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #25 November 15, 2008 Hey John - are you complaining by chance? Let me get this straight - You asked for and got - Bush in the White House 8 years ago. You asked for and got - right wing republican economic policy You reiterated that you want all this again in the White House 4 years ago. (and got it.) Now we are in a shithole and Bush policymakers are the ones deciding to put huge amounts of taxpayer dollars into corporations. And not only are you complaining, you are trying to make this an 'Obama' problem? wow TK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
