Icon134 0 #26 November 19, 2008 Quote Where things become complicated is the use of heads (restroom and shower facilities for you civi's). We already have male and female heads. Will we need a gay head as well. You betcha. Will we need to segregate the heads for gale males and lesbians? Eventually. THAT is the only problem I can foresee. Combat and MOS restrictions aren't necessary in my mind. Why not eliminate segregation of Heads all together... Just have one location for everyones use... awe shoot... the poster above me said it better...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #27 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote If it were 100 active officers saying, "yes, it can be done"... sit back and watch the train wreck... The British Armed Forces never had "Don't Ask - Don't Tell". They moved straight on to "Don't-Give-A-Flying-Fuck". If the average British Squaddies have the intelligence & tolerance to achieve this, then surely their American equivalent is also... Err... OK... Maybe a weak argument... Sorry. Mike. Bugger that's funny. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #28 November 19, 2008 the egronomics involved with how the heads are built has a lot to do with that. We are about 60-80 to a berthing space with maybe 4-6 showers, toilets, urinals and sinks. There is just no space on a ship for more luxury than that. It's bad enough standing in line for a shower and having to see a hairy sweaty fat guy that may fall against you as the ship takes a roll._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #29 November 19, 2008 How did you guys turn my opinion of heads becoming a complicated issue to a personal issue with me? People (not me) will have issue with sharing the same head with an openly gay counterpart. It's not that complicated of an idea ESPECIALLY when considering this was the case for blacks in America not very long ago. I'm not even suggesting there needs to segregation but I am suggesting this will be a major issue that needs to be addressed.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #30 November 19, 2008 Quote How is the head even a consideration? If it actually is for you, there must be some sort of a sexual connection for you with a bathroom. For the majority of people regardless of sexual orientation, there is nothing sexual about the bathroom. So you don't think the full frontal shower scenes in thousands of movies (remember Porky's?) are included as an appeal to the sexual nature of the audience? You don't think there'd be a sexual aspect to co-ed showers at the gym? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #31 November 19, 2008 QuoteHow did you guys turn my opinion of heads becoming a complicated issue to a personal issue with me? People (not me) will have issue with sharing the same head with an openly gay counterpart. It's not that complicated of an idea ESPECIALLY when considering this was the case for blacks in America not very long ago. I'm not even suggesting there needs to segregation but I am suggesting this will be a major issue that needs to be addressed.I'm not suggesting it is a problem with you or anyone else specifically... I am merely condsidering the idea that military personnel are generally adults and as such should be capable of treating others with a modicom or respect...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #32 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuoteHow did you guys turn my opinion of heads becoming a complicated issue to a personal issue with me? People (not me) will have issue with sharing the same head with an openly gay counterpart. It's not that complicated of an idea ESPECIALLY when considering this was the case for blacks in America not very long ago. I'm not even suggesting there needs to segregation but I am suggesting this will be a major issue that needs to be addressed.I'm not suggesting it is a problem with you or anyone else specifically... I am merely condsidering the idea that military personnel are generally adults and as such should be capable of treating others with a modicom or respect... No it wasn't you. I t was the two good folks prior to you who saw my opinion as sexual and homophobic in nature when it certainly was not.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #33 November 19, 2008 QuoteBelieve me, we can adapt. I remember when women were first allowed on board ships. I had no issues with it. When I was in, women were only allowed on tenders and hospital ships. The scuttlebutt that we got was that drama ruled the seas on those. Has that changed (if it was ever true in the first place)? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #34 November 19, 2008 QuoteBy violent, I mean......violent. I am sure there is plenty of space for them in Ft. Leavenworth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #35 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuote How is the head even a consideration? If it actually is for you, there must be some sort of a sexual connection for you with a bathroom. For the majority of people regardless of sexual orientation, there is nothing sexual about the bathroom. So you don't think the full frontal shower scenes in thousands of movies (remember Porky's?) are included as an appeal to the sexual nature of the audience? You don't think there'd be a sexual aspect to co-ed showers at the gym? Blues, Dave MMMMMMM.........Porky's....... Whew, but really there is a big difference between a military communal head and a bathroom that offers some level of privacy, which the military communal head does not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #36 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuoteBy violent, I mean......violent. I am sure there is plenty of space for them in Ft. Leavenworth. Yes they were court martialed, but we lost four guys total over an incident that never should have happened in the first place. An entire fire team is a very significant loss to a squad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #37 November 19, 2008 Well if they comport themselves as adults rather than a bunch of high school athletes trying to prove they really dont have those gay tendencies after all.. then they will survive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #38 November 19, 2008 QuoteHow did you guys turn my opinion of heads becoming a complicated issue to a personal issue with me? People (not me) will have issue with sharing the same head with an openly gay counterpart. It's not that complicated of an idea ESPECIALLY when considering this was the case for blacks in America not very long ago. I'm not even suggesting there needs to segregation but I am suggesting this will be a major issue that needs to be addressed. actually, my comments weren't directed at you personally....it's actually one of the things i hate about this board design. I can't just reply to the thread, it has to be to a post.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #39 November 19, 2008 Well after rereading my original post I wasn't clear about what issues would arise regarding bathroom facilities. But I do find it somewhat amusing some thought the issue to be sexual. I swear you skydivers need to get your heads out of the gutter. edited to add: pun not intended. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #40 November 19, 2008 QuoteBut I do find it somewhat amusing some thought the issue to be sexual. So what is the cause of your proposed potential requirement of separate bathrooms? .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #41 November 19, 2008 I concur that the policy is out dated. I also think that the policy should allow any one who meets the entrance exams to serve. I am also one of the few who thinks we can get rid of the gender seperation for MOS' as well. If a person meets the standards let them serve where we need them and they want to be. Those who talk of violent retribution, talk about undeciplined individuals acting out, for what ever reason. If the CINC says "This is it, Gays and Lesbians serve openly", then those who are still serving are duty bound to follow that lawful order. If they do not like it they should finish thier time and then once out of the service speak out. I think it needs to be an all or nothing policy and that removing the chance of black mail by stating "No Gays serve or you get kicked out" is the better policy. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #42 November 19, 2008 QuoteQuoteBut I do find it somewhat amusing some thought the issue to be sexual. So what is the cause of your proposed potential requirement of separate bathrooms? .jim Prejudice and homophobia. People will complain and precedence is already set with separate heads for men and women. And we are talking communal facilities where the showers and toilets have no curtains, walls, or doors. FYI: I am not against a change in this policy.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n23x 0 #43 November 19, 2008 Quote People will complain and precedence is already set with separate heads for men and women. So, are you really going to say that the issue doesn't deal with sexuality? (Just busting your balls ) Am 100% for gay people serving, regardless of whether or not they choose to "out" themselves. Agree that some people might take issue with it, but more align with the previous poster that mentions the transition time until the "old guard" gets out, and most of the prejudice disappears. .jim"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #44 November 19, 2008 Quote my comments weren't directed at you personally....it's actually one of the things i hate about this board design. I can't just reply to the thread, it has to be to a post. Actually, you sort-of can. In the reply text-type window, there's also a box, above the larger text-type box, where you can edit the title to your post any way you want. Just delete the "[Name]" at the beginning of the title, and you're effectively directing your post to the entire thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #45 November 19, 2008 ...like this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #46 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote People will complain and precedence is already set with separate heads for men and women. So, are you really going to say that the issue doesn't deal with sexuality? (Just busting your balls ) Am 100% for gay people serving, regardless of whether or not they choose to "out" themselves. Agree that some people might take issue with it, but more align with the previous poster that mentions the transition time until the "old guard" gets out, and most of the prejudice disappears. .jim lol Ok I'm all done being misunderstood in tis thread. Jesus Christ people. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #47 November 19, 2008 Quote Will we need to segregate the heads for gale males and lesbians? Nah, no way. Gay men and women have been sharing the same heads at bars for as long as I can remember... and I ain't gonna say how long that is.... but it's a long time Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #48 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote Will we need to segregate the heads for gale males and lesbians? Nah, no way. Gay men and women have been sharing the same heads at bars for as long as I can remember... and I ain't gonna say how long that is.... but it's a long time I once had an 'experience' with a straight woman in the women's bathroom at a gay bar with a lesbian watching while she urinated. There really isn't smilie that can follow that statement so I'll just leave it alone.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #49 November 19, 2008 QuoteI once had an 'experience' with a straight woman in the women's bathroom at a gay bar with a lesbian watching while she urinated. There really isn't smilie that can follow that statement so I'll just leave it alone. So you went into a bathroom with a woman who either urinated outside a stall or you stood by while someone pushed into a stall with your friend and did nothing? Or I'm missing something? That's got nothing to do with "gay". That's rude.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #50 November 19, 2008 No it has nothing to do with 'gay.' Your post just reminded me of that particularly interesting evening many many moons ago. Oh and there was no stall and the bathroom was just large enough to fit the 3 of us. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
