normiss 801 #26 November 21, 2008 Two wrongs do not make a right. but three lefts do.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #27 November 21, 2008 Quote Two wrongs do not make a right. but three lefts do.... Are you suggesting that Rambo was wrong???? How dare thee!! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #28 November 21, 2008 >Removing the threat is the sole reason for CP. Agreed. Capital punishment or life in prison without parole, whatever's cheaper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 801 #29 November 21, 2008 So it's not threat removal, it's financial? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #30 November 21, 2008 >So it's not threat removal, it's financial? No, it's threat removal at the lowest possible price. If the only consideration was financial, just give em a warning and let em go. (But that would be foolish.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 801 #31 November 21, 2008 nice. Risk an innocents death on your society to save a few bucks. Life in prison is much worse I say. Death is an easy way out for a tortured soul. As an FYI, I would consider myself neither a liberal nor a right to life follower. I used to believe the death penalty was the right thing to do with violent criminals. Then I learned more about how our legal system actually functions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #32 November 21, 2008 Quote The women on death row are housed at the Mountain View Unit. Sounds prettyWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 801 #33 November 21, 2008 I bet they have those really nice picture windows too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #34 November 21, 2008 QuoteMistakes are sometimes made, John. Reversals of convictions - on grounds that the defendant actually didn't do it - do occur from time to time. A wrongful non-capital sentence can be reversed. A wrongful completed execution cannot. This is an area in which collateral damage is always unacceptable. Why is it unacceptable in this scenario yet acceptable in a war?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #35 November 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteMistakes are sometimes made, John. Reversals of convictions - on grounds that the defendant actually didn't do it - do occur from time to time. A wrongful non-capital sentence can be reversed. A wrongful completed execution cannot. This is an area in which collateral damage is always unacceptable. Why is it unacceptable in this scenario yet acceptable in a war? In an ethically perfect world, it isn't. Still, your point is well-taken. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #36 November 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteBeyond that it's vengeance. It really never ceases to amaze me at how many "christians" are willing to usurp their gods vengeance. "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" "Eye for an eye" Makes the whole world blindWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #37 November 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBeyond that it's vengeance. It really never ceases to amaze me at how many "Christians" are willing to usurp their gods vengeance. "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" "Eye for an eye" Makes the whole world blind Naa...they one with the longest sharp stick, seem to keep the peepers intact. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #38 November 21, 2008 QuoteI bet they have those really nice picture windows too. I think a very nice high rise prison for lifers with a nice big picture window would be good. The windows above the 300' level ( below that... house the run of the mill prisoners) should be capable of being opened wide after they are in the cells for a set number of years. If they want to do B jump with no gear after that... go for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 801 #39 November 21, 2008 Please submit financial cost analysis forecast to bv for review first. We're talking about money you know. This actually isn't that bad of an idea. Letting them take their own way out would leave our society clear of having to take their lives....hmmmm.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #40 November 21, 2008 QuoteI say bullshit. Life in prison completely removes them from society and provides more than ample protection from further violent crime. that's a complete non sequitor to the comment I made - keep trying though I was talking about the guy not understanding was justice was. You're talking about prison vs CP. My point applied to either. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #41 November 21, 2008 Quote >Removing the threat is the sole reason for CP. Agreed. Capital punishment or life in prison without parole, whatever's cheaper. Hey Normiss - BV got the point.BV - I would clarify that it's whatever can be made cheaper if applied smartly - today, we do have arbitrary costs for both activities that drive the net up ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #42 November 21, 2008 >I would clarify that it's whatever can be made cheaper if applied smartly . . . Agreed, and I'd also add that the above assumes a properly functioning justice system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #43 November 21, 2008 I've been to this official Texas website and seen the pics of these people as well. Scary pictures of some really twisted looking people. I won't bother to argue that MOST of those people richly deserve to die for their crimes. BUT this same website also has a listing for one Tandall Smith, explaining that he was released from Death Row, and eventually from prison. The reason for his release ? All this official website will say is,"Conviction reversed". Mr. Smith is the subject of a book and documentary titled "The Thin Blue Line". He was not what I'd call a "role model" kind of guy. He was an aimless, pot smoking drifter who lived in motel rooms and worked at low wage jobs before moving on. He'd had several brushes with the law over misdemeanor typre offenses. And then one night he was hitchhiking and got a ride from some wild young kid, who he invited back to his room to get stoned. The kid then left the hotel, was pulled over by a cop, and shot the cop dead. On the testimony of the kid, who actually killed the cop, Randall Smith was arrested, convicted and sentenced to death. He was an easy target. He was not a likeable person. The authorities were outraged by the murder of a cop. And they were in such a hurry to get SOMEBODY that they took the word of the real killer without question and conemned an innocent man to death, inspite of too many contradictions in the killer/witnesses story. That's ONE reason why I don't TRUST the state to take anyone's life. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 November 21, 2008 Quote >I would clarify that it's whatever can be made cheaper if applied smartly . . . Agreed, and I'd also add that the above assumes a properly functioning justice system. we sure expect a LOT, We sure are lucky government stuff works like it's supposed to. all the time, every time.Though the path you are going down with these incredibly subtle statements (people watch him, it's cool) is clear. 1 - the justice system functioning 'properly' doesn't mean it's perfect, just that the tolerance for error has to include the acceptance that large punishments (CP, life in prison, watching the Ellen show each day) will be given in mistake to some level. 2 - there's a subjective level of acceptance for that eventuality, and it needs to drive the determination of the large punishment by some practical method. 3 - a practical way to apply #2 above does NOT include artificially driving up the cost of alternatives ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #45 November 21, 2008 >we sure expect a LOT . . . And we should. When it comes to the welfare system, if it fails - well, too bad, so sad. It was nice of them to try. You shouldn't have needed it to begin with. But when it comes to the justice system, you can be imprisoned (and even executed) if it fails, even if you have done nothing illegal. We _must_ hold it to a higher standard than, say, welfare, the post office or NASA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 801 #46 November 21, 2008 There are enough similar cases documented that I cannot trust our government with the death penalty. I have no clue how many have gone unnoticed. Until it's someone you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #47 November 21, 2008 QuoteAnd it never ceases to amaze me at how lib's will fight for a heartless murderer rapist alive but will know blink an eye at someone who goes and gives an unborn baby the shop-vac treatment. +1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LOSTandCRAZY 0 #48 November 21, 2008 Quote It really never ceases to amaze me at how many "christians" are willing to usurp their gods vengeance. "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" Yeah, he said it is his, not yours. "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" didn't have an * with a footnote. I personally would prefer that a killer be anally impaled for the rest of his years than to be given the gift of extinction. Picture that, and be satisfied. Quote And it never ceases to amaze me at how lib's will fight for a heartless murderer rapist alive but will know blink an eye at someone who goes and gives an unborn baby the shop-vac treatment. And you guys are just as bad...... You fear abortion, but favor the death penalty. What's the difference? Without two parents that care about the baby, it will probably just become a victim of the death penalty later on. I'm not a woman, so I can't tell her how to treat her body, to boot. I just wish they would apply that to child support cases, where if a man contested the birth to start with, he can't still be held civilly liable. Protection works both ways, and birth control doesn't always work. If it's truly a woman's choice whether to abort, then it truly needs to be that way. HER CHOICE. You won't see any civil rights attorneys fighting for THAT, though.... I know, I'm evil with that thinking, I'm gonna hear some crap for THAT one. "Get these balls!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #49 November 21, 2008 QuoteQuoteBeyond that it's vengeance. It really never ceases to amaze me at how many "christians" are willing to usurp their gods vengeance. "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" i say execute them or you can pay to keep them for the rest of their lives. i'm tired of paying for low life assholes to get better than i got. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LOSTandCRAZY 0 #50 November 21, 2008 So then become a low-life asshole. And get better than what you have. If you really have that little, you can't go DOWN the social ladder, in my opinion. Better than you have? Better what? If you hate your life, man, change it. I paid to send you to school, and you STILL can't complete a grammatically correct sentence. Maybe I wasted MY money, too?"Get these balls!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
