beowulf 1
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maadmax 0
Till there is evidence of any god I have no reason to believe any god exists much less the Christian God. Atheism is not and never has been a religion, no matter how much you want to say it is.
Atheism tries to define the paramaters of spiritual reality, ie there are none. Unless atheism truns out to be the one true way, it is just a false religion, like so many others. I, personally am not betting on it. In my life there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.
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billvon 2,990
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>Science and Spirituality define the reality we each live in.
No, they don't. A very spiritual person who believes with all his heart and soul that the Holy Spirit will save him if he jumps without a parachute will still die - because the physical world, not our beliefs, determine reality.
Science is the systematic study of how the real world works. If you understand it, you understand how the real world works. Spirituality is the attempt to understand our own place in that world, and how our mind, our spirit, God and the real world intertwine. They are not even close to the same thing. Indeed, spirituality is generally considered to be someone opposite of the real world.
>They provide guidance on how to maximize pleasure and minimize pain,
> individually and collectively.
Science tells us how to ease physical pain. Spirituality tells us how to ease spiritual pain.
>How to avoid the self destructive snares in life that
>are waiting to consume us, etc. And ultimately how to commune with God.
Science does not. Spirituality does. A scientist who cannot tell the two apart is a fraud.
No, they don't. A very spiritual person who believes with all his heart and soul that the Holy Spirit will save him if he jumps without a parachute will still die - because the physical world, not our beliefs, determine reality.
Science is the systematic study of how the real world works. If you understand it, you understand how the real world works. Spirituality is the attempt to understand our own place in that world, and how our mind, our spirit, God and the real world intertwine. They are not even close to the same thing. Indeed, spirituality is generally considered to be someone opposite of the real world.
>They provide guidance on how to maximize pleasure and minimize pain,
> individually and collectively.
Science tells us how to ease physical pain. Spirituality tells us how to ease spiritual pain.
>How to avoid the self destructive snares in life that
>are waiting to consume us, etc. And ultimately how to commune with God.
Science does not. Spirituality does. A scientist who cannot tell the two apart is a fraud.
beowulf 1
You are confused. Atheism is not a religion. Religion requires belief in something. Atheism is the opposite. Atheism has nothing to do with spirituality. There is no evidence of spirituality so there is no reason to believe in it. What you imagine to be evidence is only valid or visible to you and can not be demonstrated to anyone else.
tkhayes 348
EXACTLY!
From Webster:
And then Agnostic:
Atheism is NOT a religion, it is exactly the non-belief in ANY religion and it irritates the shit out of me when anyone tells me that somehow I am religious when I am an atheist.....
When atheists organize, it will be an 'association' a 'society' a 'movement' or 'club'. It will not be a religion
From Webster:
QuoteMain Entry: athe·ism
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546
1archaic : ungodliness , wickedness
2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity
And then Agnostic:
QuoteMain Entry: ag·nos·tic
Function: noun
Date: 1869
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable ; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something
Atheism is NOT a religion, it is exactly the non-belief in ANY religion and it irritates the shit out of me when anyone tells me that somehow I am religious when I am an atheist.....
When atheists organize, it will be an 'association' a 'society' a 'movement' or 'club'. It will not be a religion
JackC 0
QuoteAtheism is NOT a religion, it is exactly the non-belief in ANY religion and it irritates the shit out of me when anyone tells me that somehow I am religious when I am an atheist.....
What really makes me chuckle is when people say that Christianity isn't a religion (it's a personal relationship with God) and 2 minutes later tell you that Atheism is a religion. You just can't reason with that kind of logic.
beowulf 1
QuoteAtheism tries to define the paramaters of spiritual reality, ie there are none.
I keep coming back to this absolutely ridiculous statement. Atheism in no way tries to difine anything about "spiritual reality". It does disbelieve the existence of "spiritual reality".
I don't believe in spiritualism at all. I believe it only exists in your imagination. So far I have not seen anything to lead me to believe otherwise.
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteAtheism is NOT a religion, it is exactly the non-belief in ANY religion and it irritates the shit out of me when anyone tells me that somehow I am religious when I am an atheist.....
What really makes me chuckle is when people say that Christianity isn't a religion (it's a personal relationship with God) and 2 minutes later tell you that Atheism is a religion. You just can't reason with that kind of logic.
More to the point: you can't logic with that kind of reasoning.
sandi 0
QuoteWhen atheists organize, it will be an 'association' a 'society' a 'movement' or 'club'. It will not be a religion
Athiests are starting to organize. In addition to the FFRF, there is also The Reason Project.
http://www.reasonproject.org/index_ee.php/about/
Founded by Sam Harris (author of End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation).
maadmax 0
Quote>Science and Spirituality define the reality we each live in.
--No, they don't. A very spiritual person who believes with all his heart and soul that the Holy Spirit will save him if he jumps without a parachute will still die - because the physical world, not our beliefs, determine reality.Quote
True enough, but I am sure you realize, the reality that poor soul had created for himself was determined by his understanding or misunderstanding of spiritual and physical truths. As you described, when one's understanding of either is flawed consequences will surely follow. The testing of the believer's faith, mentioned in the Bible, is to expose flawed beliefs and validate true ones. Much as the scientific method does for physical phenomena. Both science and metaphysics play a major role in the reality we create for ourselves. True beliefs preserve, false beliefs destroy.
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maadmax 0
Atheism tries to define the paramaters of spiritual reality, ie there are none.
--I keep coming back to this absolutely ridiculous statement. Atheism in no way tries to difine anything about "spiritual reality". It does disbelieve the existence of "spiritual reality".
--I don't believe in spiritualism at all. I believe it only exists in your imagination. So far I have not seen anything to lead me to believe otherwise.
--I keep coming back to this absolutely ridiculous statement. Atheism in no way tries to difine anything about "spiritual reality". It does disbelieve the existence of "spiritual reality".
--I don't believe in spiritualism at all. I believe it only exists in your imagination. So far I have not seen anything to lead me to believe otherwise.
Call it what you want. Atheism defines the metaphysical parameters you use to construct your own particular brand of reality. Which you use to understand the world around you and your place in it. That is the same thing religion is trying to do. Once there are a bunch of you all espousing the same metaphysical information, you have a religion.
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maadmax 0
What really makes me chuckle is when people say that Christianity isn't a religion (it's a personal relationship with God) You just can't reason with that kind of logic.
You are close to grasping the quantum nature of Christianity, it can actually be both.
billvon 2,990
> the reality that poor soul had created for himself was determined by his
> understanding or misunderstanding of spiritual and physical truths.
Incorrect.
His spiritual outcome might well be determined by what spiritual truths he holds or does not hold. His physical outcome will be determined purely by gravity, air resistance and basic mechanics, and not affected the slightest bit by his absolute, fervent and overwhelming belief that God will save him.
>The testing of the believer's faith, mentioned in the Bible, is to expose
>flawed beliefs and validate true ones.
From a purely spiritual perspective, that may well be true. However, all too many people use the Bible as a shield against other ways of thinking instead of as a lens to see other religions and ways of life that may be just as valid as their own.
> understanding or misunderstanding of spiritual and physical truths.
Incorrect.
His spiritual outcome might well be determined by what spiritual truths he holds or does not hold. His physical outcome will be determined purely by gravity, air resistance and basic mechanics, and not affected the slightest bit by his absolute, fervent and overwhelming belief that God will save him.
>The testing of the believer's faith, mentioned in the Bible, is to expose
>flawed beliefs and validate true ones.
From a purely spiritual perspective, that may well be true. However, all too many people use the Bible as a shield against other ways of thinking instead of as a lens to see other religions and ways of life that may be just as valid as their own.
beowulf 1
QuoteAtheism defines the metaphysical parameters you use to construct your own particular brand of reality.
You must have your own dictionary. This is not true. Atheism does not define any metaphysical anything.
billvon 2,990
>Atheism defines the metaphysical parameters you use to construct your
>own particular brand of reality. Which you use to understand the world
>around you and your place in it. That is the same thing religion is trying
>to do.
By your definition, then, a whuffo is just another kind of skydiver. It's a clever sophistry but by and large a useless one.
>own particular brand of reality. Which you use to understand the world
>around you and your place in it. That is the same thing religion is trying
>to do.
By your definition, then, a whuffo is just another kind of skydiver. It's a clever sophistry but by and large a useless one.
Quote>Science and Spirituality define the reality we each live in.
No, they don't. A very spiritual person who believes with all his heart and soul that the Holy Spirit will save him if he jumps without a parachute will still die - because the physical world, not our beliefs, determine reality.
A person with such a belief would be a fool. Having jumped with Muslims in Jordan, their belief was more fatalistic. Quite interesting too; canopy deployments at 10000ft, and not bothering to steer perfectly steerable canopies, which led to long drives into the desert, and a number of avoidable collisions too. Poor training and inexperience, yes, but also a large degree of fatalism.
Keeping with the posts context, surely the concepts of ID and evolution should be taught with the conclusion being up to the student regarding his or her belief? I expect most to believe in evolution. But what of those who stubbornly continue to believe in a God of some form or other? Why would they - have they some kind of flaw in their character?
Sure, let them believe whatever they wish, but perhaps it might be of interest to consider why such people believe? What if they're far more intelligent and educated than all of us here on SC, yet still believe?
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
JackC 0
QuoteQuote
What really makes me chuckle is when people say that Christianity isn't a religion (it's a personal relationship with God) You just can't reason with that kind of logic.
You are close to grasping the quantum nature of Christianity, it can actually be both.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!
Perfectly on cue!
And you also said: Unless atheism truns out to be the one true way, it is just a false religion, like so many others.
So ladies and gentlemen, Maadmax thinks that Christianity isn't a religion but Atheism is. That is exactly the sort of insane gibberish I find so utterly hysterical. Sorry but it's impossible to take such delusional bollocks seriously.
QuoteAtheism tries to define the paramaters of spiritual reality, ie there are none.
--I keep coming back to this absolutely ridiculous statement. Atheism in no way tries to difine anything about "spiritual reality". It does disbelieve the existence of "spiritual reality".
--I don't believe in spiritualism at all. I believe it only exists in your imagination. So far I have not seen anything to lead me to believe otherwise.
Call it what you want. Atheism defines the metaphysical parameters you use to construct your own particular brand of reality. Which you use to understand the world around you and your place in it. That is the same thing religion is trying to do. Once there are a bunch of you all espousing the same metaphysical information, you have a religion.
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Nonsense.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
riddler 0
QuoteBy all means, do your own exploration. I believe the Words of Jesus. " I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except by Me"
Just a guess - your parents were Christians, too? Probably, your grandparents were also Christians?
I find it an incredible coincidence that out of all the hundreds or thousands of available religions that just about everyone "chooses" the exact same religion that their parents had.
Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD
jclalor 12
Keeping with the posts context, surely the concepts of ID and evolution should be taught with the conclusion being up to the student regarding his or her belief? I expect most to believe in evolution. But what of those who stubbornly continue to believe in a God of some form or other? Why would they - have they some kind of flaw in their character?***
We do not live in a theocracy, by all means teach YOUR children anything you like at home or in your church. NO ONE disputes your right to do this.
I have never even brought up the subject of religion to my daughter, and now that she is in college, if she chooses religion, that will be HER own choice made as a critical thinking adult and not one that was indoctrinated in her since early childhood.
Can you imagine if we never told children about god until thier late teens, and then we told them thier is this invisable man in the sky watching us and if we are good we will go up there and live forever with him, they would think we are nuts. Religion only works. because children are for lack of a better word brainwashed and this is how religion has pepetuated it's self.since the beginning of man.
We do not live in a theocracy, by all means teach YOUR children anything you like at home or in your church. NO ONE disputes your right to do this.
I have never even brought up the subject of religion to my daughter, and now that she is in college, if she chooses religion, that will be HER own choice made as a critical thinking adult and not one that was indoctrinated in her since early childhood.
Can you imagine if we never told children about god until thier late teens, and then we told them thier is this invisable man in the sky watching us and if we are good we will go up there and live forever with him, they would think we are nuts. Religion only works. because children are for lack of a better word brainwashed and this is how religion has pepetuated it's self.since the beginning of man.
Quoteby all means teach YOUR children anything you like at home or in your church. NO ONE disputes your right to do this.
Actually, I do. No one has the right to teach their kids hatred or racist shit - for a start.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
tkhayes 348
QuoteCall it what you want.
We are NOT calling it what we want - we are calling it by its accepted DEFINITION in all and EVERY accepted dictionary in the world. YOU my friend, are calling it what you want.
QuoteAtheism defines the metaphysical parameters.....
Atheism defines NO such things, apparently you have some issue with reading and understanding plain English definitions.
QuoteQuoteby all means teach YOUR children anything you like at home or in your church. NO ONE disputes your right to do this.
Actually, I do. No one has the right to teach their kids hatred or racist shit - for a start.
Actually, they do. Here in the States, white supremacists raise their children from birth to be racists. It is their right as parents and there is nothing the government can do unless the parents physically endanger the child. That is just one example.
I don't agree with what they are doing and I don't like it, but it is their right as parents to raise their child as they see fit within the bounds of the law.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
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