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I see nothing obvious about it at all. Do you have any evidence that awareness and wisdom came from a singularity?
The fact that you are sitting there and discussing the issues is evidence of some sort. Assigning your creative self awareness to a favorable chance combinations of quarks and electrons can't be proved, and is to much of a stretch for me.
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The fact that I am sitting here discussing the issue is only evidence that I have enough awareness and the minimal wisdom required to perform the task. It is in no way evidence of any kind of where either originated.
Of course, some will say that in my case both are absent.
Don't be overwhelmed by the statistical odds of something as mysterious as life happening just by chance. The fact that we are here shows that, no matter what the odds were against it happening here, it happened.
I consider myself agnostic. Though I am not religious by any means, I have not eliminated entirely the chance of there being a Great Creator. The odds are certainly against it, but until it can be disproven (unlikely) it still has to be on the list of possibilities. Waaaay down at the bottom, and getting lower all the time, but it is still there.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
QuoteQuoteExplain your assertion that Jesus was nothing more than charismatic. If you want to use Mohammed as another example of a charismatic 'phenomena' that's fine.
He got a lot of people to dedicate their lives to him and write stuff about how great he was. Sounds pretty charismatic to me.
C'mon, that's an answer a child might give to the question. '...write stuff about how great he was...' Duh!
There was a bit more to it than that. Whether you're an atheist or not.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
maadmax 0
Because wisdom and awareness don't even exist in the way that matter and energy do. You can't go and quantify a bit of awareness, you can't make any laws that describe the behaviour of wisdom.
In case you haven't noticed, we are still in the metaphysical stone age. We have some handed down bits of wisdom on how to manipulate the metaphysical environment, but lack the knowledge to describe and measure it. Just saying "it doesn't exist then", is lame. Just think of the enlightened discussions we would of had around the camp fire 10,000 years ago regarding natural laws.
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QuoteTry this:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
or a more scholarly version this:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/
Interesting links - thanks.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
beowulf 1
Seeing how there is not one bit of evidence of a metaphysical anything I think your "metaphysical stone age" is just bullshit.
Exactly
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
maadmax 0
QuoteSeeing how there is not one bit of evidence of a metaphysical anything I think your "metaphysical stone age" is just bullshit.
The fact that you have created an opinion is metaphysical. Show me any neuroscientist that has generated even the slightest thought in stimulated nerve tissue out side of a living host. If all that is required is nerve tissue, a dash of neurotransmitter and a few mEq what is the big deal?
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billvon 2,990
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
> Show me any neuroscientist that has generated even the slightest thought
>in stimulated nerve tissue out side of a living host.
Oct. 22, 2004 — A University of Florida scientist has created a living "brain" of cultured rat cells that now controls an F-22 fighter jet flight simulator.
Scientists say the research could lead to tiny, brain-controlled prosthetic devices and unmanned airplanes flown by living computers.
And if scientists can decipher the ground rules of how such neural networks function, the research also may result in novel computing systems that could tackle dangerous search-and-rescue jobs and perform bomb damage assessment without endangering humans.
“The end result is a neural network that can fly the plane to produce relatively stable straight and level flight.”
Additionally, the interaction of the cells within the lab-assembled brain also may allow scientists to better understand how the human brain works. The data may one day enable researchers to determine causes and possible non-invasive cures for neural disorders, such as epilepsy.
For the recent project, Thomas DeMarse, a University of Florida professor of biomedical engineering, placed an electrode grid at the bottom of a glass dish and then covered the grid with rat neurons. The cells initially resembled individual grains of sand in liquid, but they soon extended microscopic lines toward each other, gradually forming a neural network — a brain — that DeMarse says is a "living computational device."
The brain then communicates with the flight simulator through a desktop computer.
"We grow approximately 25,000 cells on a 60-channel multi-electrode array, which permits us to measure the signals produced by the activity each neuron produces as it transmits information across this network of living neurons," DeMarse told Discovery News. "Using these same channels (electrodes) we can also stimulate activity at each of the 60 locations (electrodes) in the network. Together, we have a bidirectional interface to the neural network where we can input information via stimulation. The network processes the information, and we can listen to the network's response."
The brain can learn, just as a human brain learns, he said. When the system is first engaged, the neurons don't know how to control the airplane; they don't have any experience.
But, he said, "Over time, these stimulations modify the network's response such that the neurons slowly (over the course of 15 minutes) learn to control the aircraft. The end result is a neural network that can fly the plane to produce relatively stable straight and level flight."
At present, the brain can control the pitch and roll of the F-22 in various virtual weather conditions, ranging from hurricane-force winds to clear blue skies.
Not Science Fiction
This brain-controlled plane may sound like science fiction, but it is grounded in work that has been taking place for more than a decade. A breakthrough occurred in 1993, when a team of scientists created a Hybrot, which is short for "hybrid robot."
The robot consisted of hardware, computer software, rat neurons, and incubators for those neurons. The computer, programmed to respond to the neuron impulses, controlled a wheel underneath a machine that resembled a child's toy robot.
Last year, U.S. and Australian researchers used a similar neuron-controlled robotic device to produce a "semi-living artist." In this case, the neurons were hooked up to a drawing arm outfitted with different colored markers. The robot managed to draw decipherable pictures — albeit it bad ones that resembled child scribbles — but that technology led to today's fighter plane simulator success.
Steven Potter, an assistant professor of biomedical engineering at Georgia Tech who directed the living artist project, believes DeMarse's work is important, and that such studies could lead to a variety of engineering and neurobiology research goals.
"A lot of people have been interested in what changes in the brains of animals and people when they are learning things," Potter said. "We're interested in getting down into the network and cellular mechanisms, which is hard to do in living animals. And the engineering goal would be to get ideas from this system about how brains compute and process information."
Though the "brain" can successfully control a flight simulation program, more elaborate applications are a long way off, DeMarse said.
"We're just starting out. But using this model will help us understand the crucial bit of information between inputs and the stuff that comes out," he said. "And you can imagine the more you learn about that, the more you can harness the computation of these neurons into a wide range of applications."
>in stimulated nerve tissue out side of a living host.
Oct. 22, 2004 — A University of Florida scientist has created a living "brain" of cultured rat cells that now controls an F-22 fighter jet flight simulator.
Scientists say the research could lead to tiny, brain-controlled prosthetic devices and unmanned airplanes flown by living computers.
And if scientists can decipher the ground rules of how such neural networks function, the research also may result in novel computing systems that could tackle dangerous search-and-rescue jobs and perform bomb damage assessment without endangering humans.
“The end result is a neural network that can fly the plane to produce relatively stable straight and level flight.”
Additionally, the interaction of the cells within the lab-assembled brain also may allow scientists to better understand how the human brain works. The data may one day enable researchers to determine causes and possible non-invasive cures for neural disorders, such as epilepsy.
For the recent project, Thomas DeMarse, a University of Florida professor of biomedical engineering, placed an electrode grid at the bottom of a glass dish and then covered the grid with rat neurons. The cells initially resembled individual grains of sand in liquid, but they soon extended microscopic lines toward each other, gradually forming a neural network — a brain — that DeMarse says is a "living computational device."
The brain then communicates with the flight simulator through a desktop computer.
"We grow approximately 25,000 cells on a 60-channel multi-electrode array, which permits us to measure the signals produced by the activity each neuron produces as it transmits information across this network of living neurons," DeMarse told Discovery News. "Using these same channels (electrodes) we can also stimulate activity at each of the 60 locations (electrodes) in the network. Together, we have a bidirectional interface to the neural network where we can input information via stimulation. The network processes the information, and we can listen to the network's response."
The brain can learn, just as a human brain learns, he said. When the system is first engaged, the neurons don't know how to control the airplane; they don't have any experience.
But, he said, "Over time, these stimulations modify the network's response such that the neurons slowly (over the course of 15 minutes) learn to control the aircraft. The end result is a neural network that can fly the plane to produce relatively stable straight and level flight."
At present, the brain can control the pitch and roll of the F-22 in various virtual weather conditions, ranging from hurricane-force winds to clear blue skies.
Not Science Fiction
This brain-controlled plane may sound like science fiction, but it is grounded in work that has been taking place for more than a decade. A breakthrough occurred in 1993, when a team of scientists created a Hybrot, which is short for "hybrid robot."
The robot consisted of hardware, computer software, rat neurons, and incubators for those neurons. The computer, programmed to respond to the neuron impulses, controlled a wheel underneath a machine that resembled a child's toy robot.
Last year, U.S. and Australian researchers used a similar neuron-controlled robotic device to produce a "semi-living artist." In this case, the neurons were hooked up to a drawing arm outfitted with different colored markers. The robot managed to draw decipherable pictures — albeit it bad ones that resembled child scribbles — but that technology led to today's fighter plane simulator success.
Steven Potter, an assistant professor of biomedical engineering at Georgia Tech who directed the living artist project, believes DeMarse's work is important, and that such studies could lead to a variety of engineering and neurobiology research goals.
"A lot of people have been interested in what changes in the brains of animals and people when they are learning things," Potter said. "We're interested in getting down into the network and cellular mechanisms, which is hard to do in living animals. And the engineering goal would be to get ideas from this system about how brains compute and process information."
Though the "brain" can successfully control a flight simulation program, more elaborate applications are a long way off, DeMarse said.
"We're just starting out. But using this model will help us understand the crucial bit of information between inputs and the stuff that comes out," he said. "And you can imagine the more you learn about that, the more you can harness the computation of these neurons into a wide range of applications."
maadmax 0
Very interesting, do you have any links. I would like to read more about these experiments.
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beowulf 1
I would say that BillVon did a very nice job of shooting down your metaphysical bullshit reasoning.
kallend 2,026
QuoteQuoteIf you don't believe in God, what was Jesus then? What was so special about the man?
Nothing. I thought you'd have figured out how atheism works by now.
You can be special without being a god, and even have delusions of godness. Examples would be Augustus Caesar, Caligula, Douglas Macarthur, etc.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Remster 30
jakee 1,489
QuoteThere was a bit more to it than that.
Why does there need to be more to it than that?
What more was there to Mohammed, or Buddha, or Joseph Smith?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
jakee 1,489
QuoteQuoteQuoteIf you don't believe in God, what was Jesus then? What was so special about the man?
Nothing. I thought you'd have figured out how atheism works by now.
You can be special without being a god, and even have delusions of godness. Examples would be Augustus Caesar, Caligula, Douglas Macarthur, etc.
To be fair, Augustus did become a god.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
jakee 1,489
Quote
Because wisdom and awareness don't even exist in the way that matter and energy do. You can't go and quantify a bit of awareness, you can't make any laws that describe the behaviour of wisdom.
In case you haven't noticed, we are still in the metaphysical stone age. We have some handed down bits of wisdom on how to manipulate the metaphysical environment,
Eh?
Quotewe would of had around the camp fire 10,000 years ago regarding natural laws.
"Have," people - it's "have."
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
You forgot to mention G.W. Bush, the most current example.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Stop avoiding the question with a question of your own, or are you too busy sorting yourself out with asbestos underwear?
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
kallend 2,026
QuoteYou forgot to mention G.W. Bush, the most current example.
Surely he just talks to Jesus.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Er, sorry - it was a little joke - as in a link to somewhere/something which would allow one to gain more time, so as to be able to read the already provided links without any rush.
I'll get my coat. . . .
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
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