GOP Senate win in Georgia

[Erroll 80]

From CNN:- GOP Senate win in Georgia means Dems can't halt filibusters.

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Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss claimed victory Tuesday in the Senate race in Georgia against Democrat Jim Martin, killing Democratic hopes of gaining enough seats to halt filibusters.

Is this a good thing?


Ps. How much filibustering is actually still happening these days?

[Gawain 0]

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From CNN:- GOP Senate win in Georgia means Dems can't halt filibusters.

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Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss claimed victory Tuesday in the Senate race in Georgia against Democrat Jim Martin, killing Democratic hopes of gaining enough seats to halt filibusters.

Is this a good thing?

Ps. How much filibustering is actually still happening these days?

A lot believe it or not. Despite not being "filibuster" proof, the democrats have successfully filibustered several notable judge nominations from President Bush over the past two terms.

In the end, this is a good thing that there won't be a super-majority in the Senate.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Andy9o8 2]

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Ps. How much filibustering is actually still happening these days?

A lot believe it or not. Despite not being "filibuster" proof, the democrats have successfully filibustered several notable judge nominations from President Bush over the past two terms.

In the end, this is a good thing that there won't be a super-majority in the Senate.

That argument is overstated. Here's a rebuttal:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200505180004

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The Top 10 filibuster falsehoods:
Falsehood #1: Democrats' filibuster of Bush nominees is "unprecedented" [discussion]
[9 more falsehoods also listed & discussed.]

In fact, it's been the Republicans in the last Congress that have been the most obstructionist with filibusters in record numbers:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/19/politics/animal/main3277967.shtml

[mnealtx 0]

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In fact, it's been the Republicans in the last Congress that have been the most obstructionist with filibusters in record numbers:

Info from discoverthenetworks.com:

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Media Matters' founder and CEO is David Brock. A reporter for the conservative magazine The American Spectator in the 1990s, Brock (in the aftermath of his biography of Hillary Clinton that brought disastrous reviews) engaged in a public self-denunciation, characterizing all his past writings critical of liberal figures as a confection of lies and slanders. In Brock's present judgment, the mainstream media have fallen under the sway of conservative ideology. He believes that conservatives have moved the mainstream media "to the right and therefore they've moved American politics to the right. … I wanted to create an institution [Media Matters] to combat what they're doing."

Standing behind Brock was John Podesta, a former chief of staff in the Clinton administration and the head of the "progressive" Washington, DC think tank, the Center for American Progress. In 2004 Podesta provided Brock with office space for his fledgling enterprise. Soon after, Media Matters received over $2 million in seed donations from a roster of affluent donors including Leo Hindery Jr., a former cable magnate; Susie Tompkins Buell, a co-founder of the fashion company Esprit and a close ally of Senator Hillary Clinton; James Hormel, a San Francisco philanthropist who nearly served as ambassador to Luxembourg during the Clinton administration; Bren Simon, a Democratic activist and the wife of shopping-mall developer Mel Simon; and New York psychologist and philanthropist Gail Furman. Media Matters, which can accept tax-deductible contributions under section 501(c)(3) of the tax code, has also benefited from the patronage of Peter Lewis, chairman of Progressive Corporation and a longtime consort of leftist financier George Soros.

Given the above, I'm not giving their article much credence, sorry.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andy9o8 2]

You can shoot the messenger all you want, but the simple fact is, in the last Congress the Repubs filibustered at a record rate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/weekinreview/02herszenhorn.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

[mnealtx 0]

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You can shoot the messenger all you want, but the simple fact is, in the last Congress the Repubs filibustered at a record rate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/weekinreview/02herszenhorn.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

So?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,108]

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You can shoot the messenger all you want, but the simple fact is, in the last Congress the Repubs filibustered at a record rate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/weekinreview/02herszenhorn.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

So?

So your attempt to attack the messenger was lame.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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You can shoot the messenger all you want, but the simple fact is, in the last Congress the Repubs filibustered at a record rate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/weekinreview/02herszenhorn.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

So?

His point is whenever the term filibuster ever comes up it inevitably leads to the conservatives crying foul about the democrats vs Bush. There isn't much more depth to that statement and he posted numbers to backup the eyerolling most do when it's discussed as such.

Nonetheless, I didn't want the Dems to have 60 seats. There needs to be a balance in Gov't.

edit: I also don't see how the GOP considers this a victory worth celebrating. This runoff shows that they are losing ground in a traditionally red state. Expect GA to be a heavy focus of the Dems from this point out. Unless there is a grass roots GOP movement to get the youth and minorities in this state, it's only a matter of time before it swings blue. The passage of time means more of the red will be making their way towards the grave.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[mnealtx 0]

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You can shoot the messenger all you want, but the simple fact is, in the last Congress the Repubs filibustered at a record rate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/weekinreview/02herszenhorn.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

So?

So your attempt to attack the messenger was lame.

Just as lame as your attempts - now, do you have something to actually CONTRIBUTE to the conversation? No? Unsurprising.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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His point is whenever the term filibuster ever comes up it inevitably leads to the conservatives crying foul about the democrats vs Bush. There isn't much more depth to that statement and he posted numbers to backup the eyerolling most do when it's discussed as such.

As opposed the Democrats crying foul, perhaps? Or is it the "yeah, but the Republicans do it MORE" that is usual excuse whenever a comparison is shown?

It is what it is - one side introduces a bill and tries to gain enough votes for cloture. Sometimes they get it, and sometimes the other side blocks it.

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Nonetheless, I didn't want the Dems to have 60 seats. There needs to be a balance in Gov't.

Agreed

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,078]

>Is this a good thing?

Yep. At most the democrats will have 59 seats now, which means they will have to stay centrist enough to convince at least one republican to not filibuster them.

[TomAiello 26]

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In the end, this is a good thing that there won't be a super-majority in the Senate.

Definitely agree. Governments in which the opposition is too weak can move too quickly, and too far, and find themselves pushing things far outside the actual acceptance of their societies before the next electoral cycle.

FWIW, Chambliss' run-off campaign is the one and only campaign I've ever made a political donation to, and I did so knowing pretty much zero about the candidate.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Gawain 0]

I wasn't overstating anything. He asked the question about how much filibustering going on, I stated that (regardless of majority) filibusters are still used, and effective even without a super-majority.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Belgian_Draft 0]

I ahve always been partial to government that is a president of one party, and the opposing party controls the House and Senate by the slimmest of margins. Everyone must compromise, and not much gets done outside the basics of running a nation...which is usually a good thing.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

unless you want fixes to health care, or social security. Or a budget in California. Then it's a disastrous, ineffective governing body.

[nerdgirl 0]

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Is this a good thing?

Imo, no.

Some good moderate Republicans lost re-election bids this term (Rep Chris Shays (CT) & Sen Elizabeth Dole (NC)) and in 2006 (Sen Lincoln Chafee (RI)) or lost primary races (Rep Heather Wilson (NM) to replace Sen Pete Domenici), Sen Chambliss was not one of them.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Gawain 0]

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Is this a good thing?

Imo, no.

So you wanted a supermajority in the Senate?

Sen. Chambliss isn't what I would call "on the wing"...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[nerdgirl 0]

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Is this a good thing?

Imo, no.

So you wanted a supermajority in the Senate?

No, I wanted what I considered to be the better candidate.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[kelpdiver 2]

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Imo, no.

Some good moderate Republicans lost re-election bids this term (Rep Chris Shays (CT) & Sen Elizabeth Dole (NC)) and in 2006 (Sen Lincoln Chafee (RI)) or lost primary races (Rep Heather Wilson (NM) to replace Sen Pete Domenici), Sen Chambliss was not one of them.

VR/Marg

That's the nature of the beast - when a party is out of favor, it's moderates are more likely to go, not the extremists, as their voters are by definition more moderate, and more willing to cross over to the other party.

This can worsen the time out of office, as the remainder are even less attractive to the electorate.

[TheAnvil 0]

It's about time we had some good news.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Two questions:
1. Does the procedure to thwart a filibuster require 60 votes or 60% of the votes cast?
2. Why does no one talk about a filibuster proof house?

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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unless you want fixes to health care, or social security. Or a budget in California. Then it's a disastrous, ineffective governing body.

No government is perfect.
That said, the best governments are those that do the basics and very little more. Whether health care, social security, etc. need fixed depends on who you talk to. Some think health care is an emergancy situation that needs attention NOW, others think it is just fine.
But no matter what issue government is taking a look at, change for the sake of change is almost always a bum deal. The best way to avoid this is to have a healthy debate with input from all sides.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[nerdgirl 0]

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That said, the best governments are those that do the basics and very little more. Whether health care, social security, etc. need fixed

By what metric do you measure best?

And what do you consider "basics"?

Here's one prior SC discusion of "minimum government services/protections/benefits."

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Gawain 0]

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Two questions:
1. Does the procedure to thwart a filibuster require 60 votes or 60% of the votes cast?

It requires three-fifths (if all 100 seats are filled).

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2. Why does no one talk about a filibuster proof house?

Filibusters in the House are not permitted. Debate is finite once it's begun.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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By what metric do you measure best?

I use the same metric everyone else uses-my own. What I feel is best is undoubtedly different than what you feel is best which is different from anyone else.

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And what do you consider "basics"?

I would consider "basics" to be those services that the country could not function without. Since there has already been a thread where people have discussed what government should do and not do, I will dispense with any sort of itemized list.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.