Israel Preparing to Strike Iran Without U.S. Consent

[airdvr 210]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,461588,00.html

And the sabre rattling begins.

Personally I hope they do it. If there were nukes in Cuba...oh wait...that already happened.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 2,027]

What a nerve! The US would NEVER prepare do do anything without Israel's consent.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

I really don't think it will happen. While Israel certainly has the depth of resources to carry out such an operation, I do not believe they have the breadth to make an effective impact. There are at least two-dozen targets that would be hit twice for good measure, spread all over the country.

Also, to do it with as low a profile as possible, means flying through Turkey. I don't expect Turkey will simply open its airspace to strike and re-fueling aircraft without US involvement.

Finally, "drawing up plans" does not equal intent. The Pentagon always draws up all sorts of plans to do all sorts of things...

Israel, in its self interest, is drawing up how it would carry out strikes on Iran without US support. That's being prudent, not being pre-emptive...yet...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[airdvr 210]

True, but not without precedence. Israel has done this before.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 3,006]

>If there were nukes in Cuba...oh wait...that already happened.

Yep. Fortunately we had a president at the time who saw solutions other than invasion and pre-emptive strikes.

[miked10270 0]

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The US would NEVER prepare do do anything without Israel's consent.

IT GETS WORSE!!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Andy9o8 2]

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True, but not without precedence. Israel has done this before.

Yeah, but the logistics were easier against Iraq in 1981 - single target, shorter distance, only 1 other country to over-fly (which was done by deception, not consent).

Map of region:

http://www.warren-wilson.edu/~globalstudies/blog/uploaded_images/map-middle-east-735329.gif

Description of 1981 operation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5020778.stm

[FallingOsh 0]

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>If there were nukes in Cuba...oh wait...that already happened.

Yep. Fortunately we had a president at the time who saw solutions other than invasion and pre-emptive strikes.

Um... Bay of Pigs... Operation Mongoose...

Not to mention the world was within seconds of a nuclear war.

But yeah, good example.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[Skyrad 0]

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I really don't think it will happen. While Israel certainly has the depth of resources to carry out such an operation, I do not believe they have the breadth to make an effective impact. There are at least two-dozen targets that would be hit twice for good measure, spread all over the country.

Also, to do it with as low a profile as possible, means flying through Turkey. I don't expect Turkey will simply open its airspace to strike and re-fueling aircraft without US involvement.

Finally, "drawing up plans" does not equal intent. The Pentagon always draws up all sorts of plans to do all sorts of things...

Israel, in its self interest, is drawing up how it would carry out strikes on Iran without US support. That's being prudent, not being pre-emptive...yet...

An insightful and logical analysis. I'd agree.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

LOL Great picture for the story.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Darius11 12]

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Personally I hope they do it

Personally you have nothing at risk and it is irresponsible or at least in poor taste to hope a country attacks another one where it could very will lead to a war that will cost lives.

But I am not surprised we always have people on here who seem to have a hard on for seeing other people die and think there are only two options. A. Bomb them and B. Bomb them.


I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel did attempted an attack it would not be the 1st, 2nd, or 100th time they have violated international laws, or another nations borders.

What do you think Iran should do if it is attacked?

Say thank you or then would you understand if Iran does use all of its forces to strike back at Israel?
I wonder if Iran would be viewed as just another nation that is protecting it’s sovereignty or would the lines of sheep try to make it about Anti-Semitism?

I truly do wonder that as I have seen an unbelievable level of narcissism, and hypocrisy from the go to war we are always right crowd.


I hope no lives are lost, but if Israel is the aggressor once again then they deserve what will come to them.
I see no difference between a “Terrorist” who brakes all international laws or an Israeli pilot who brakes international law. They are both scum.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[marks2065 0]

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Personally I hope they do it

Personally you have nothing at risk and it is irresponsible or at least in poor taste to hope a country attacks another one where it could very will lead to a war that will cost lives.

But I am not surprised we always have people on here who seem to have a hard on for seeing other people die and think there are only two options. A. Bomb them and B. Bomb them.


I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel did attempted an attack it would not be the 1st, 2nd, or 100th time they have violated international laws, or another nations borders.

What do you think Iran should do if it is attacked?

Say thank you or then would you understand if Iran does use all of its forces to strike back at Israel?
I wonder if Iran would be viewed as just another nation that is protecting it’s sovereignty or would the lines of sheep try to make it about Anti-Semitism?

I truly do wonder that as I have seen an unbelievable level of narcissism, and hypocrisy from the go to war we are always right crowd.


I hope no lives are lost, but if Israel is the aggressor once again then they deserve what will come to them.
I see no difference between a “Terrorist” who brakes all international laws or an Israeli pilot who brakes international law. They are both scum.

i am glad you are not making the decisions. if people with your mind set were making the decisions in the past we could be speaking german or russian now. although war is never wanted and should be the last resort, there comes a time when you need to consider what langauge you want to speak. Israel has been threatened with another holocaust and that would be unacceptable. just remember the left has declared war at times also (wwII for one). war is an undesireable way to end a conflict but is needed from time to time. not only did FDR (dem) declare war but also autherized the use of the most leathal weapon ever used in the history of the earth.

[nerdgirl 0]

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not only did FDR (dem) declare war but also autherized the use of the most leathal weapon ever used in the history of the earth.

While one may argue that Pres Roosevelt gave tacit approval through creation of the Manhattan Project, Pres Truman (another Democrat) authorized use of both Little Boy and Fat Man.

[Edit to add: it's actually an interesting historical argument, imo]

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[akarunway 1]

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>If there were nukes in Cuba...oh wait...that already happened.

Yep. Fortunately we had a president at the time who saw solutions other than invasion and pre-emptive strikes.

Yeah. And what happened to him?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Darius11 12]

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i am glad you are not making the decisions

If you don’t understand the difference between “the day that will live in infamy” and a country attempting to advance its technologies then I don’t really know who long of list I will need to make for you so you can see the HUGE difference.


Iran has not invaded another country in more then a century. We have! how did Israel of all countries or even the US become the decider of who is worthy of technologies. Again it is that narcissism and hypocrisy that I am speaking of.
Why shouldn’t Iran have nuclear energy? As you stated your self the only country to ever use nuclear weapons on civilians is the United States. So what moral high ground are we standing on because I don’t see it?
Iran will run out of oil if not in 40 years it will in 80 years and has the right to find other energy sources.



I ask you this.

What should Iran’s reaction be to an attack? What do you expect will happen? What would we do if another military force decided to attack Losalamos laboratories because they think we are irresponsible with power or afraid of new power we might be working on?

In my world words are never a good enough excuse to start wars, or to take lives, and I find people who talk about war or other peoples lives in such a casual matter disturbing. Usually what I find most disturbing is the same people who do not value others lives tend to only value certain lives that has value to them.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you don’t understand the difference between “the day that will live in infamy” and a country attempting to advance its technologies then I don’t really know who long of list I will need to make for you so you can see the HUGE difference.

If you argued that Iran has a right to be a nuclear power, that would be a serious argument. Other than self interest, I have no legitimate reasons why they should not pursue the bomb.

But lying and stating that this about power generation - please. Same for the claim that Iran hasn't invaded anyone. If Israel bombs the shit out of them, Iran has only its leadership to blame.

We've had this conversation before. If Iran (and you) want to whine about fairness and international law and bullies, then it shouldn't be picking fights with bigger people. The schoolyard result is the little guy gets his ass kicked. The world is no different.

[alw 0]

Anyone here that was in the military in 1973 may have an idea of how serious this could be. While most civilians were talking the same way as most here before during and after the Yom Kippur war, behind the scenes we were closer than the Cuban missile crisis to global conflict.

While today's global dynamic does not compare to 1973, regional tensions, economic tensions, and opportunistic regimes in both hemispheres could rapidly escalate if the tinder is set alight.

Of course the US would have to give permission to overfly their airspace in Iraq, but they would most likely not shoot down Israeli aircraft if they didn't give it. There is a difference diplomatically.

One thing is strategically and tactically certain, conflict or not we are in a better position militarily in that region today than pre-war. I see many comments on the US position referencing Iraq but very little regional strategic discussion.

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Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[Darius11 12]

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But lying and stating that this about power generation - please..

Wow do you have ESP? We have seen what being so sure has done for the country

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Same for the claim that Iran hasn't invaded anyone

Who oh WISE ONE have they invaded in the last 100 years?

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If Israel bombs the shit out of them, Iran has only its leadership to blame.

So even if Isreail brakes all international laws fly thosends of miles to drop a bomb on a country that has not shot one bullet tworads them thats Irans fault? Good to see your not Bais

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We've had this conversation before. If Iran (and you) want to whine about fairness and international law and bullies, then it shouldn't be picking fights with bigger people. The schoolyard result is the little guy gets his ass kicked. The world is no different.

Your assuming Israel would win, which is only possible if the United States gets involved. If the US does not get involved there is enough people in Iran that if they took a turn to piss on Israel they would drown all of its citizens. Not to mention Iran has the strongest military in the Middle East.
Not to mention many of the people who live in Israel are of Persian dissent and have the understanding that Iran is not an Arab nation.

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We've had this conversation before

yes you and I have. You believe in the Alpha mentality. Which means if you have the power you do what you want there are no rules of justice or ethics in the way you see the world. It is take as much as you can as long as you have the power to, and fuck the weak. Might is right.

I personally think that’s what’s wrong with the world no wonder we don’t agree.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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One thing is strategically and tactically certain, conflict or not we are in a better position militarily in that region today than pre-war

If you mean just that we have a lot of troops there in the area therefor no travel is needed ok, but if you mean stronger in any other way you need to do a 180 to reality.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kelpdiver 2]

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yes you and I have. You believe in the Alpha mentality. Which means if you have the power you do what you want there are no rules of justice or ethics in the way you see the world. It is take as much as you can as long as you have the power to, and fuck the weak. Might is right.

I personally think that’s what’s wrong with the world no wonder we don’t agree.

Good try.

I've clearly said that when a subordinate power threatens to obliterate a superior power, it doesn't get to complain when that power hurts it.

Since you're incapable of viewing the situation non emotionally, you won't take Iran to task for these peace violating statements, or their sponsorship of terrorist groups. All you can bleat is that Israel (or the US) are also bad.

Until Iran gets its bomb, it will remain the underdog in this. The massive fall in oil prices will really hurt them in the near term as well.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

If you don’t understand the difference between “the day that will live in infamy” and a country attempting to advance its technologies then I don’t really know who long of list I will need to make for you so you can see the HUGE difference.

If you argued that Iran has a right to be a nuclear power, that would be a serious argument. Other than self interest, I have no legitimate reasons why they should not pursue the bomb.

But lying and stating that this about power generation - please. Same for the claim that Iran hasn't invaded anyone. If Israel bombs the shit out of them, Iran has only its leadership to blame.

We've had this conversation before. If Iran (and you) want to whine about fairness and international law and bullies, then it shouldn't be picking fights with bigger people. The schoolyard result is the little guy gets his ass kicked. The world is no different.

"God made men, Sam Colt made ‘em equal." Kinda fits the NWO senerio don't ya think?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Butters 0]

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"This is negotiations, not violence. Violence is later." Ignignokt

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Gawain 0]

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Your assuming Israel would win, which is only possible if the United States gets involved. If the US does not get involved there is enough people in Iran that if they took a turn to piss on Israel they would drown all of its citizens. Not to mention Iran has the strongest military in the Middle East.
Not to mention many of the people who live in Israel are of Persian dissent and have the understanding that Iran is not an Arab nation.

Iran's military is being over rated in the public eye in my opinion. They even doctored their own missile test photos from all those exercises they did a few months ago. Their hardware is similar to Syria's (which is also similar to what Iraq's used to be). We know how ineffective they are, especially their air defense. Two known times where Syria didn't even know they were hit until it was all over.

Having said that, would Iran be able to flex muscle against a current day Iraq, or Afghanistan? Yes. If they looked north in to Turkey, I say no (double no since they're a member of NATO). Saudi Arabia, perhaps, if they throw human waves and use numbers to their advantage. Israel? Sure, the advance couldn't be stopped conventionally...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kelpdiver 2]

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Israel? Sure, the advance couldn't be stopped conventionally...

It doesn't have to be stopped conventionally. Since Iran has pledged to wipe them off the earth, use of nuclear weapons enter the equation.

(Also seems like a long march to get those troops from Iran onto the Israeli border. Not exactly a subtle operation.)

[airdvr 210]

On October 26, 2005, IRIB News, an English-language subsidiary of the state-controlled Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, filed a story on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's recent speech to the "World Without Zionism" conference in Asia

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.

If Ahmadinejad wants to flex he ought to be prepared for the consequences. We've pussy-footed around with this guy enough already. I think Israel realizes the US is not going to handle it so they might as well before Barry takes office.

It'd be nice to settle this diplomatically but I don't think that's a possibility.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne