dgskydive 0 #51 December 11, 2008 QuoteIt looked like a quick easy war I will agree with that. The "war" was quick and easy. That being said..........we are not at war right now. The war ended a long time ago. We are making politicians rich is what we are doing now. We are showing the world that America has lost itself. We have shown the world that the American people no longer run this country. I remember when I was in the Army, you could go to a foreign country and people respected Americans, now days, the hate us and dont want us there.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #52 December 11, 2008 QuoteColin Powell was a career soldier who was obeying the directives of his commander-in-chief. He tried to talk him out of this ill-conceived war. But when it came time to do his job, he did it. I can't fault him for that any more than I can fault a pilot that bombs a civilian wedding because he was given faulty coordinates. For either of your examples, if they knew the action was wrong and they followed orders anyway I think Nuremberg principle IV could be applicable. "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #53 December 11, 2008 Quote Quote yes it would have. this war serves no purpose. none. well at least no good one Although I was, and still am, against the Iraq war, I don't think it was a complete loss. Saddam Hussein was killed - he was a bad guy, and I'm not sorry to see him dead. There's no way in Hell it was worth 4,000 American lives, 3 trillion dollars, and many countless innocent Iraqi lives (many children included). But at least he's dead. The worst part is that the guy we should have been chasing (OBL) is still very much alive. I hope Obama makes good on his promise to find him and kill him. 99.9% agree - you didn't mention allied losses and £s or Euros etc wasted (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #54 December 11, 2008 Quote99.9% agree - you didn't mention allied losses and £s or Euros etc wasted Sorry about that! Yes, there were Allied losses in many other countries in addition to the Iraqi civilian deaths. Of course, the US bullied other countries into joining the coalition by threatening trade reprisals, even against friendly countries.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #55 December 11, 2008 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #56 December 11, 2008 War is never a good thing. was the iraq war right? strategically it was the right call. morally no. loss of life should only be used to prevent future loss of life. the administration thought he was hiding something. our administrations plan? lie to our people so they could get rich from oil? no. remove hussein and install a u.s. friendly govt. with a u.s. military base. giving us a stronger strategic foothold in middle east? yes.They grossly under estimatted the local muslim unrest of christian occupiers. thought that the removal of the hated hussein would make them support us, or at least not attack us, once war ended. bush always listened to the hawks in his admin. cheney and rumsfeld. should have listened to powell more, not fire him. I have not read his book, I will. be interesting to read what he says about those times. the interviews i have seen with him. he always says we thought hussein had wmd.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #57 December 11, 2008 Quoteour administrations plan? lie to our people so they could get rich from oil? Dude, please look up more on Cheney and Bush. Understand where they "come" from. Cheney was CEO of Halliburton. You think he is not profiting from this in some way? Please. Quoteremove hussein and install a u.s. friendly govt. with a u.s. military base. giving us a stronger strategic foothold in middle east? yes.They grossly under estimatted the local muslim unrest of christian occupiers. thought that the removal of the hated hussein would make them support us, or at least not attack us, once war ended. Quote To think that we could actually do that was stupidity. Look at the British. They occupied (colonized) in the part of the world for a long time and in the end gave it all back. We are not wanted there and never will be. Democracy is a baby compared to the religious beliefs and the way of life in the middle east. They are never going to give up the way they live, not just because we are handing out voting cards. should have listened to powell more, not fire him.Quote Your right, they should have listened to him more. As far as firing him.....well that is more propaganda he told them to F--k themselves and quit, regardless of what the official stance is. Powell was used by the Bush administration to help win his first election. I know many military men and women that voted for bush the 1st time because of Powell. He was a well respected man for what he has done for the country as a military leader. I was one of those people. They used and abused one of the greatest military men in the history of our country. His biggest fault was that he was loyal and did his "duty" to the President. BTW, no, the war in Iraq was(is) not right. In fact I think it is the worst thing our country has ever done. For those that think we needed to go to war to kill Sadam, well that is nuts. We could have killed him anytime we wanted to. Dont think that we couldnt have. We may have lost track of him for a little bit before finding him in his (literal) little hole. But our military had eyes and sites on him for years. If Bush truly wanted to get rid of a bad man, they could have done it without war. Hell, we had pictures of the guy sleeping in his bed during the first gulf war and the pics werent taken by his people.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #58 December 11, 2008 QuoteDude, please look up more on Cheney and Bush. Understand where they "come" from. Cheney was CEO of Halliburton. You think he is not profiting from this in some way? Please. They already and still are rich. they don't need money. There is no other way to argue point, proof wise, Haliburton was the most logical choice. cheney knew co. inside and out. Quote To think that we could actually do that was stupidity. Look at the British. They occupied (colonized) in the part of the world for a long time and in the end gave it all back. We are not wanted there and never will be. Democracy is a baby compared to the religious beliefs and the way of life in the middle east. They are never going to give up the way they live, not just because we are handing out voting cards. its starting to work right now. casulities almost down to nil. Quote Your right, they should have listened to him more. As far as firing him.....well that is more propaganda he told them to F--k themselves and quit, regardless of what the official stance is. actually he resigned. he wasn't on board with rumsfelds plans. bush asked for resignation. rumsfeld likes yes men. Quote Powell was used by the Bush administration to help win his first election. I know many military men and women that voted for bush the 1st time because of Powell. He was a well respected man for what he has done for the country as a military leader. I was one of those people. They used and abused one of the greatest military men in the history of our country. His biggest fault was that he was loyal and did his "duty" to the President. bush won 1st election. was from a mixture of clinton not being able to help gore, because he got busted getting bj and time for the political party swing back other way. even with those two factors he barely won. Quote BTW, no, the war in Iraq was(is) not right. In fact I think it is the worst thing our country has ever done.Quote probably vietnam worse Quote For those that think we needed to go to war to kill Sadam, well that is nuts. We could have killed him anytime we wanted to. Dont think that we couldnt have. We may have lost track of him for a little bit before finding him in his (literal) little hole. But our military had eyes and sites on him for years. If Bush truly wanted to get rid of a bad man, they could have done it without war. Hell, we had pictures of the guy sleeping in his bed during the first gulf war and the pics werent taken by his people.Quote i think they probably would have done that, if they could have. at least get the mossad to do it. they would have if possibleBorn ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #59 December 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteDude, please look up more on Cheney and Bush. Understand where they "come" from. Cheney was CEO of Halliburton. You think he is not profiting from this in some way? Please. They already and still are rich. they don't need money. Very funny. The reason people get very rich is that they have a desire to make more money. I know several multi-billionaires. Not one of them has said he has enough money already. They may give lots of it away, but they still want to make more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #60 December 11, 2008 then why leave haliburton? CEOs make a lot more than vp's of govt.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #61 December 11, 2008 Quotethen why leave haliburton? CEOs make a lot more than vp's of govt. Very naive view. VPs can dramatically influence the value of their stock options. www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheneys_stock_options_rose_3281_last_1011.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #62 December 11, 2008 from the 1st story: "Democrats pointed out that Cheney receives deferred compensation from Halliburton under an arrangement he made in 1998, and also retains stock options. He has pledged to give after-tax proceeds of the stock options to charity. " "They pointed out that Cheney took out a $15,000 insurance policy so he would collect the deferred payments over five years whether or not Halliburton remains in business. " "In 2002, Cheney's total assets were valued at between $19.1 million and $86.4 million" haven't read 2nd article yet. how does this one point out my naivity? i didn't say his using haliburton wasn't helping haliburton. he just isn't getting rich off it.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #63 December 11, 2008 Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity. this is the only thing i can see wrong. how is this naive? are saying he is lying and will take all the money? no way to prove or disprove future . However, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) concluded in Sept. 2003 that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a “financial interest” regardless of whether the holder of the options will donate proceeds to charities. CRS also found that receiving deferred compensation is a financial interest.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #64 December 11, 2008 QuoteSen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity. this is the only thing i can see wrong. how is this naive? are saying he is lying and will take all the money? no way to prove or disprove future . However, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) concluded in Sept. 2003 that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a “financial interest” regardless of whether the holder of the options will donate proceeds to charities. CRS also found that receiving deferred compensation is a financial interest. I refer you to my previous post: "I know several multi-billionaires. Not one of them has said he has enough money already. They may give lots of it away, but they still want to make more. Emphasis on the part that you seem to have skipped over.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #65 December 11, 2008 sorry that was an accidently skipped over. still, how does that make his haliburton dealings profitable then? if he gives it all away. i guess i am naive, i don't know what your point is. i think bush and cheneys trips are on power. they have enough money.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #66 December 11, 2008 QuoteThey already and still are rich. they don't need money. There is no other way to argue point, proof wise, Haliburton was the most logical choice. cheney knew co. inside and out. To those like these men.. there is never enough and they will do anything to acquire more. They were tied in with a group of people who literally control thousands of oil wells across Texas and the inter-mountain west( about 20,000 in Colorado alone). They are known as Little Oil as opposed to the large multi-nationals. Many of those wells do not produce many barrels of oil per day. If you have an older field.. with wells that produce only 5 to 10 barrels per day and the price of a barrel is about $20 you make a maximum of $200 per day. They knew that to destabilize world oil prices because they were attacking a major oil producer ( 115 BILLION barrels in proven reserves about ...11% of global total..2nd largest in the world ) that was producing a couple million barrels per day that prices would go up. All of a sudden all those little wells are worth far more money.. especially at over $100 per barrel... and their personal wealth has increased 10 fold. When those thousands of wells are added up.. we are talking about a LOT of money... quite enough to drive some serious greed. Want to bet that the Cheney and Bush families made out just fine during their tenure???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #67 December 11, 2008 I am not a bush supporter. I haven't seen any huge money appetite, like everyone wants to point out. that administartion was about power, christian ideals, and the mind set "we are right, dont listen to what the polls say".Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ion01 2 #68 December 11, 2008 QuoteSome historians....have argued that the Ten Commandments originated from ancient Egyptian religion, and postulate that the Biblical Jews borrowed the concept after their Exodus from Egypt. Some historians claim the jew were never in egypt. Sounds like theres some conflict in the "scientific community". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #69 December 11, 2008 You have to look at where most of those in the Administration made their careers... who has bailed them out when they got in trouble... who has rewarded them for their "good work" check out PNAC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #70 December 11, 2008 QuoteThey already and still are rich. they don't need money. There is no other way to argue point, proof wise, Haliburton was the most logical choice. cheney knew co. inside and out. Maybe you are not as jaded as I am, but to think that the rich arent always trying to get richer...... well they do want more. Quote In Reply To To think that we could actually do that was stupidity. Look at the British. They occupied (colonized) in the part of the world for a long time and in the end gave it all back. We are not wanted there and never will be. Democracy is a baby compared to the religious beliefs and the way of life in the middle east. They are never going to give up the way they live, not just because we are handing out voting cards. its starting to work right now. casulities almost down to nil. They (fundamentalist) may be crazy in our book, but they are not stupid. They know that the pressure for us to leave is on and they are waiting for their chance. I guess time will tell. Once our forces are gone, we will see what happens. Much easier to let things die down and then once we pull out they can do as they please. By going in and killing Sadam, we have set them up for success later on down the road. No more Mass murder to keep them in check. Quotebush asked for resignation. We will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he told them to f off and the story is Bush asked for resignation. Quote bush won 1st election. Did he really? I am not being a smart ass, but I still believe that something was rotten in Florida that year. If I remember correctly, Gore won the popular vote. That is the year I learned that our system is not perfect. Quotei think they probably would have done that, if they could have. at least get the mossad to do it. they would have if possible It was possible, very possible.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #71 December 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteSome historians....have argued that the Ten Commandments originated from ancient Egyptian religion, and postulate that the Biblical Jews borrowed the concept after their Exodus from Egypt. Some historians claim the jew were never in egypt. Sounds like theres some conflict in the "scientific community". Sounds like some confusion in your mind about history and science. And it is FACT that documented prohibitions against murder, thieving, adultery, perjury etc, are found in India, Mesopotamia and Egypt that significantly pre-date the Exodus story, so the commonly held belief among Christians that the decalogue represents the first moral law is quite incorrect.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #72 December 11, 2008 QuoteAnd it is FACT that documented prohibitions against murder, thieving, adultery, perjury etc, are found in India, Mesopotamia and Egypt that significantly pre-date the Exodus story, It is also believed by some that Buddha and Jesus are the same person. Seems Buddha showed up right after Jesus went back to heaven and there are many similarities between them. The one that sticks out in my mind is his (Buddha's) age when he started his teachings. If that is true, then it would make sense that The commandments could have been given out in other places as well, before and after what the bible says. FTR, I am not an expert on religion, Buddha was from India right?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #73 December 11, 2008 Well if JC came back as the Buddha, he must have eaten a lot of pies whilst visiting pop. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #74 December 11, 2008 lol goggle the subject, there is a lot out there on the similarities and differences in between the two. I just learned that the Catholic Church holds Zen Seminars at a lot of their retreats. They both spent 40 days in the wilderness and both were tempted by evil during that time.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #75 December 11, 2008 QuoteIt is also believed by some that Buddha and Jesus are the same person Let me correct myself, they believe they are brothers, but wouldnt that still make them the same person?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 3 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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frequentfaller 0 #58 December 11, 2008 QuoteDude, please look up more on Cheney and Bush. Understand where they "come" from. Cheney was CEO of Halliburton. You think he is not profiting from this in some way? Please. They already and still are rich. they don't need money. There is no other way to argue point, proof wise, Haliburton was the most logical choice. cheney knew co. inside and out. Quote To think that we could actually do that was stupidity. Look at the British. They occupied (colonized) in the part of the world for a long time and in the end gave it all back. We are not wanted there and never will be. Democracy is a baby compared to the religious beliefs and the way of life in the middle east. They are never going to give up the way they live, not just because we are handing out voting cards. its starting to work right now. casulities almost down to nil. Quote Your right, they should have listened to him more. As far as firing him.....well that is more propaganda he told them to F--k themselves and quit, regardless of what the official stance is. actually he resigned. he wasn't on board with rumsfelds plans. bush asked for resignation. rumsfeld likes yes men. Quote Powell was used by the Bush administration to help win his first election. I know many military men and women that voted for bush the 1st time because of Powell. He was a well respected man for what he has done for the country as a military leader. I was one of those people. They used and abused one of the greatest military men in the history of our country. His biggest fault was that he was loyal and did his "duty" to the President. bush won 1st election. was from a mixture of clinton not being able to help gore, because he got busted getting bj and time for the political party swing back other way. even with those two factors he barely won. Quote BTW, no, the war in Iraq was(is) not right. In fact I think it is the worst thing our country has ever done.Quote probably vietnam worse Quote For those that think we needed to go to war to kill Sadam, well that is nuts. We could have killed him anytime we wanted to. Dont think that we couldnt have. We may have lost track of him for a little bit before finding him in his (literal) little hole. But our military had eyes and sites on him for years. If Bush truly wanted to get rid of a bad man, they could have done it without war. Hell, we had pictures of the guy sleeping in his bed during the first gulf war and the pics werent taken by his people.Quote i think they probably would have done that, if they could have. at least get the mossad to do it. they would have if possibleBorn ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #59 December 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteDude, please look up more on Cheney and Bush. Understand where they "come" from. Cheney was CEO of Halliburton. You think he is not profiting from this in some way? Please. They already and still are rich. they don't need money. Very funny. The reason people get very rich is that they have a desire to make more money. I know several multi-billionaires. Not one of them has said he has enough money already. They may give lots of it away, but they still want to make more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #60 December 11, 2008 then why leave haliburton? CEOs make a lot more than vp's of govt.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #61 December 11, 2008 Quotethen why leave haliburton? CEOs make a lot more than vp's of govt. Very naive view. VPs can dramatically influence the value of their stock options. www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheneys_stock_options_rose_3281_last_1011.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #62 December 11, 2008 from the 1st story: "Democrats pointed out that Cheney receives deferred compensation from Halliburton under an arrangement he made in 1998, and also retains stock options. He has pledged to give after-tax proceeds of the stock options to charity. " "They pointed out that Cheney took out a $15,000 insurance policy so he would collect the deferred payments over five years whether or not Halliburton remains in business. " "In 2002, Cheney's total assets were valued at between $19.1 million and $86.4 million" haven't read 2nd article yet. how does this one point out my naivity? i didn't say his using haliburton wasn't helping haliburton. he just isn't getting rich off it.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #63 December 11, 2008 Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity. this is the only thing i can see wrong. how is this naive? are saying he is lying and will take all the money? no way to prove or disprove future . However, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) concluded in Sept. 2003 that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a “financial interest” regardless of whether the holder of the options will donate proceeds to charities. CRS also found that receiving deferred compensation is a financial interest.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #64 December 11, 2008 QuoteSen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity. this is the only thing i can see wrong. how is this naive? are saying he is lying and will take all the money? no way to prove or disprove future . However, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) concluded in Sept. 2003 that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a “financial interest” regardless of whether the holder of the options will donate proceeds to charities. CRS also found that receiving deferred compensation is a financial interest. I refer you to my previous post: "I know several multi-billionaires. Not one of them has said he has enough money already. They may give lots of it away, but they still want to make more. Emphasis on the part that you seem to have skipped over.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #65 December 11, 2008 sorry that was an accidently skipped over. still, how does that make his haliburton dealings profitable then? if he gives it all away. i guess i am naive, i don't know what your point is. i think bush and cheneys trips are on power. they have enough money.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #66 December 11, 2008 QuoteThey already and still are rich. they don't need money. There is no other way to argue point, proof wise, Haliburton was the most logical choice. cheney knew co. inside and out. To those like these men.. there is never enough and they will do anything to acquire more. They were tied in with a group of people who literally control thousands of oil wells across Texas and the inter-mountain west( about 20,000 in Colorado alone). They are known as Little Oil as opposed to the large multi-nationals. Many of those wells do not produce many barrels of oil per day. If you have an older field.. with wells that produce only 5 to 10 barrels per day and the price of a barrel is about $20 you make a maximum of $200 per day. They knew that to destabilize world oil prices because they were attacking a major oil producer ( 115 BILLION barrels in proven reserves about ...11% of global total..2nd largest in the world ) that was producing a couple million barrels per day that prices would go up. All of a sudden all those little wells are worth far more money.. especially at over $100 per barrel... and their personal wealth has increased 10 fold. When those thousands of wells are added up.. we are talking about a LOT of money... quite enough to drive some serious greed. Want to bet that the Cheney and Bush families made out just fine during their tenure???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #67 December 11, 2008 I am not a bush supporter. I haven't seen any huge money appetite, like everyone wants to point out. that administartion was about power, christian ideals, and the mind set "we are right, dont listen to what the polls say".Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ion01 2 #68 December 11, 2008 QuoteSome historians....have argued that the Ten Commandments originated from ancient Egyptian religion, and postulate that the Biblical Jews borrowed the concept after their Exodus from Egypt. Some historians claim the jew were never in egypt. Sounds like theres some conflict in the "scientific community". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #69 December 11, 2008 You have to look at where most of those in the Administration made their careers... who has bailed them out when they got in trouble... who has rewarded them for their "good work" check out PNAC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #70 December 11, 2008 QuoteThey already and still are rich. they don't need money. There is no other way to argue point, proof wise, Haliburton was the most logical choice. cheney knew co. inside and out. Maybe you are not as jaded as I am, but to think that the rich arent always trying to get richer...... well they do want more. Quote In Reply To To think that we could actually do that was stupidity. Look at the British. They occupied (colonized) in the part of the world for a long time and in the end gave it all back. We are not wanted there and never will be. Democracy is a baby compared to the religious beliefs and the way of life in the middle east. They are never going to give up the way they live, not just because we are handing out voting cards. its starting to work right now. casulities almost down to nil. They (fundamentalist) may be crazy in our book, but they are not stupid. They know that the pressure for us to leave is on and they are waiting for their chance. I guess time will tell. Once our forces are gone, we will see what happens. Much easier to let things die down and then once we pull out they can do as they please. By going in and killing Sadam, we have set them up for success later on down the road. No more Mass murder to keep them in check. Quotebush asked for resignation. We will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he told them to f off and the story is Bush asked for resignation. Quote bush won 1st election. Did he really? I am not being a smart ass, but I still believe that something was rotten in Florida that year. If I remember correctly, Gore won the popular vote. That is the year I learned that our system is not perfect. Quotei think they probably would have done that, if they could have. at least get the mossad to do it. they would have if possible It was possible, very possible.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #71 December 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteSome historians....have argued that the Ten Commandments originated from ancient Egyptian religion, and postulate that the Biblical Jews borrowed the concept after their Exodus from Egypt. Some historians claim the jew were never in egypt. Sounds like theres some conflict in the "scientific community". Sounds like some confusion in your mind about history and science. And it is FACT that documented prohibitions against murder, thieving, adultery, perjury etc, are found in India, Mesopotamia and Egypt that significantly pre-date the Exodus story, so the commonly held belief among Christians that the decalogue represents the first moral law is quite incorrect.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #72 December 11, 2008 QuoteAnd it is FACT that documented prohibitions against murder, thieving, adultery, perjury etc, are found in India, Mesopotamia and Egypt that significantly pre-date the Exodus story, It is also believed by some that Buddha and Jesus are the same person. Seems Buddha showed up right after Jesus went back to heaven and there are many similarities between them. The one that sticks out in my mind is his (Buddha's) age when he started his teachings. If that is true, then it would make sense that The commandments could have been given out in other places as well, before and after what the bible says. FTR, I am not an expert on religion, Buddha was from India right?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #73 December 11, 2008 Well if JC came back as the Buddha, he must have eaten a lot of pies whilst visiting pop. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #74 December 11, 2008 lol goggle the subject, there is a lot out there on the similarities and differences in between the two. I just learned that the Catholic Church holds Zen Seminars at a lot of their retreats. They both spent 40 days in the wilderness and both were tempted by evil during that time.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #75 December 11, 2008 QuoteIt is also believed by some that Buddha and Jesus are the same person Let me correct myself, they believe they are brothers, but wouldnt that still make them the same person?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 3 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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kallend 2,026 #59 December 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteDude, please look up more on Cheney and Bush. Understand where they "come" from. Cheney was CEO of Halliburton. You think he is not profiting from this in some way? Please. They already and still are rich. they don't need money. Very funny. The reason people get very rich is that they have a desire to make more money. I know several multi-billionaires. Not one of them has said he has enough money already. They may give lots of it away, but they still want to make more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #60 December 11, 2008 then why leave haliburton? CEOs make a lot more than vp's of govt.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #61 December 11, 2008 Quotethen why leave haliburton? CEOs make a lot more than vp's of govt. Very naive view. VPs can dramatically influence the value of their stock options. www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheneys_stock_options_rose_3281_last_1011.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #62 December 11, 2008 from the 1st story: "Democrats pointed out that Cheney receives deferred compensation from Halliburton under an arrangement he made in 1998, and also retains stock options. He has pledged to give after-tax proceeds of the stock options to charity. " "They pointed out that Cheney took out a $15,000 insurance policy so he would collect the deferred payments over five years whether or not Halliburton remains in business. " "In 2002, Cheney's total assets were valued at between $19.1 million and $86.4 million" haven't read 2nd article yet. how does this one point out my naivity? i didn't say his using haliburton wasn't helping haliburton. he just isn't getting rich off it.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #63 December 11, 2008 Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity. this is the only thing i can see wrong. how is this naive? are saying he is lying and will take all the money? no way to prove or disprove future . However, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) concluded in Sept. 2003 that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a “financial interest” regardless of whether the holder of the options will donate proceeds to charities. CRS also found that receiving deferred compensation is a financial interest.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #64 December 11, 2008 QuoteSen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity. this is the only thing i can see wrong. how is this naive? are saying he is lying and will take all the money? no way to prove or disprove future . However, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) concluded in Sept. 2003 that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a “financial interest” regardless of whether the holder of the options will donate proceeds to charities. CRS also found that receiving deferred compensation is a financial interest. I refer you to my previous post: "I know several multi-billionaires. Not one of them has said he has enough money already. They may give lots of it away, but they still want to make more. Emphasis on the part that you seem to have skipped over.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #65 December 11, 2008 sorry that was an accidently skipped over. still, how does that make his haliburton dealings profitable then? if he gives it all away. i guess i am naive, i don't know what your point is. i think bush and cheneys trips are on power. they have enough money.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #66 December 11, 2008 QuoteThey already and still are rich. they don't need money. There is no other way to argue point, proof wise, Haliburton was the most logical choice. cheney knew co. inside and out. To those like these men.. there is never enough and they will do anything to acquire more. They were tied in with a group of people who literally control thousands of oil wells across Texas and the inter-mountain west( about 20,000 in Colorado alone). They are known as Little Oil as opposed to the large multi-nationals. Many of those wells do not produce many barrels of oil per day. If you have an older field.. with wells that produce only 5 to 10 barrels per day and the price of a barrel is about $20 you make a maximum of $200 per day. They knew that to destabilize world oil prices because they were attacking a major oil producer ( 115 BILLION barrels in proven reserves about ...11% of global total..2nd largest in the world ) that was producing a couple million barrels per day that prices would go up. All of a sudden all those little wells are worth far more money.. especially at over $100 per barrel... and their personal wealth has increased 10 fold. When those thousands of wells are added up.. we are talking about a LOT of money... quite enough to drive some serious greed. Want to bet that the Cheney and Bush families made out just fine during their tenure???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #67 December 11, 2008 I am not a bush supporter. I haven't seen any huge money appetite, like everyone wants to point out. that administartion was about power, christian ideals, and the mind set "we are right, dont listen to what the polls say".Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ion01 2 #68 December 11, 2008 QuoteSome historians....have argued that the Ten Commandments originated from ancient Egyptian religion, and postulate that the Biblical Jews borrowed the concept after their Exodus from Egypt. Some historians claim the jew were never in egypt. Sounds like theres some conflict in the "scientific community". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #69 December 11, 2008 You have to look at where most of those in the Administration made their careers... who has bailed them out when they got in trouble... who has rewarded them for their "good work" check out PNAC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #70 December 11, 2008 QuoteThey already and still are rich. they don't need money. There is no other way to argue point, proof wise, Haliburton was the most logical choice. cheney knew co. inside and out. Maybe you are not as jaded as I am, but to think that the rich arent always trying to get richer...... well they do want more. Quote In Reply To To think that we could actually do that was stupidity. Look at the British. They occupied (colonized) in the part of the world for a long time and in the end gave it all back. We are not wanted there and never will be. Democracy is a baby compared to the religious beliefs and the way of life in the middle east. They are never going to give up the way they live, not just because we are handing out voting cards. its starting to work right now. casulities almost down to nil. They (fundamentalist) may be crazy in our book, but they are not stupid. They know that the pressure for us to leave is on and they are waiting for their chance. I guess time will tell. Once our forces are gone, we will see what happens. Much easier to let things die down and then once we pull out they can do as they please. By going in and killing Sadam, we have set them up for success later on down the road. No more Mass murder to keep them in check. Quotebush asked for resignation. We will just have to agree to disagree on that one. I think he told them to f off and the story is Bush asked for resignation. Quote bush won 1st election. Did he really? I am not being a smart ass, but I still believe that something was rotten in Florida that year. If I remember correctly, Gore won the popular vote. That is the year I learned that our system is not perfect. Quotei think they probably would have done that, if they could have. at least get the mossad to do it. they would have if possible It was possible, very possible.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #71 December 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteSome historians....have argued that the Ten Commandments originated from ancient Egyptian religion, and postulate that the Biblical Jews borrowed the concept after their Exodus from Egypt. Some historians claim the jew were never in egypt. Sounds like theres some conflict in the "scientific community". Sounds like some confusion in your mind about history and science. And it is FACT that documented prohibitions against murder, thieving, adultery, perjury etc, are found in India, Mesopotamia and Egypt that significantly pre-date the Exodus story, so the commonly held belief among Christians that the decalogue represents the first moral law is quite incorrect.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #72 December 11, 2008 QuoteAnd it is FACT that documented prohibitions against murder, thieving, adultery, perjury etc, are found in India, Mesopotamia and Egypt that significantly pre-date the Exodus story, It is also believed by some that Buddha and Jesus are the same person. Seems Buddha showed up right after Jesus went back to heaven and there are many similarities between them. The one that sticks out in my mind is his (Buddha's) age when he started his teachings. If that is true, then it would make sense that The commandments could have been given out in other places as well, before and after what the bible says. FTR, I am not an expert on religion, Buddha was from India right?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #73 December 11, 2008 Well if JC came back as the Buddha, he must have eaten a lot of pies whilst visiting pop. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #74 December 11, 2008 lol goggle the subject, there is a lot out there on the similarities and differences in between the two. I just learned that the Catholic Church holds Zen Seminars at a lot of their retreats. They both spent 40 days in the wilderness and both were tempted by evil during that time.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #75 December 11, 2008 QuoteIt is also believed by some that Buddha and Jesus are the same person Let me correct myself, they believe they are brothers, but wouldnt that still make them the same person?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
