Bush says bible probably not literally true

[Rstanley0312 1]

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I personally don't believe everything is literally true, particularly Revelation. Just my opinion.

Just curious, and I'm asking without intending to offend anyone. But if the Bible is not literally true, does that mean the 10 commandments are really only general guidelines? I mean, isn't it hard to separate what you think might be the word of God (i.e. literally true) from what may just be a parable that shouldn't be taken literally?

If everyone is allowed to judge for themselves which parts of the Bible are worth following, and which aren't true, then it seems like the entire foundation of western religion is null and void.

It all depends on the book you are reading. If it is written in metaphoric style i.e. Revelation which is apocolyptic literature then it is metaphoric but if it written with literal language then it means what is says like the synoptic gospels excluding the parables which are just that, parables. Just for the record the Bible has not really changed since it was originally written and actually the mistakes in translation have almost been completely eliminated. Where we are unsure, many versions like the New American Standard Bible will tell you where there is confusion and the possible options. That is only 2% of the scriptures. Bottom line though it still comes down to faith even though the Bible still is the most hisorically accurate document ever created.

Blues!
Rob

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[jakee 1,489]

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It is also believed by some that Buddha and Jesus are the same person. Seems Buddha showed up right after Jesus went back to heaven...

FTR, I am not an expert on religion...

No, you're not. Buddha most probably lived roughly four to five hundred years before Jesus.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[dgskydive 0]

you are right. Still check out this list

[/url]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3420115;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread[url]

forgot how to make things clicky

Dom

[frequentfaller 0]

so we should let whoever writes the newest bible version, your case New American Standard Bible, tell us what to follow literally and what to learn metaphorically?

Born ok 1st time.

[Rstanley0312 1]

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so we should let whoever writes the newest bible version, your case New American Standard Bible, tell us what to follow literally and what to learn metaphorically?

uh no you should let the language experts tell you. It is not difficult to tell how something is written once you know the language. I read Coine Greek (New Testament), Hebrew (Old Testament) and some Aramaic which some of the Bible is written in (New Testament) I was stating that we have found mistakes made in previous translations the New American Standard just tells you the 2% that is unsure and tell you all the posibilities. By the way that 2% is not entire versus rather individual words. By the way I am not an "expert" but studying the languages since 98' I can tell you it is not that hard to know the intent or what the author was saying despite the argument that it can be translated however one wants to translate it. That simply is not true! You can choose to believe or not but what is written is written. It really is that simple. It should be noted the the Greek and Hebrew languages are way more specific than English. i.e. we have one word for love where Greek and Hebrew have four a piece to define specific loves so you cannot use the same word for love in a phrase like "I love ice cream" and "I love my wife". Different words for each.

Blues!

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[riddler 0]

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It all depends on the book you are reading. If it is written in metaphoric style i.e. Revelation which is apocolyptic literature then it is metaphoric but if it written with literal language then it means what is says like the synoptic gospels excluding the parables which are just that, parables. Just for the record the Bible has not really changed since it was originally written and actually the mistakes in translation have almost been completely eliminated. Where we are unsure, many versions like the New American Standard Bible will tell you where there is confusion and the possible options. That is only 2% of the scriptures. Bottom line though it still comes down to faith even though the Bible still is the most hisorically accurate document ever created.

Umm. Riiiiigght. You must've been there to witness those goings-on?

I will refer you to some basic info about the King James Bible. This, for example:

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The king gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy.

Or maybe you were talking about the Bibles before the Hampton Court Conference. Maybe the Bishop's Bible? Or the Great Bible?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[jakee 1,489]

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Bottom line though it still comes down to faith even though the Bible still is the most hisorically accurate document ever created.

You've got to be shitting me? That is a ludicrous statement!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pirana 0]

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Isn't the end of the US or was it the world supposed to happen before he gets out of office? Where is chuteless when you need the answers?!

I think 4 out of 5 wackos are still putting their money on 2012.

The 5th wacko had to take time out to visit his dentist for the answer.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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And there you have the essence of modern organized religion. Cherry picking sheep.

Ten Commandments, hmmm. I like to fuck the neighbor's wife, guess I'll go with 9. And I had to kill that God damned mother fucker who broke into the other neighbor's house and stole his TV. Maybe make it 8, I mean 7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-flQmtL_IQ&feature=related

...lol just had to share this......I can't stop laughing...

Here is another link that is more related to your reply....It will explain why nobody can ever adhere to the 10 commandments....ultimately they were purposed to show us that we can't live by them 100%...even though most people think we should.

Yes I know its confusing but you're gonna have to try harder if you wanna understand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8ICj1MlMqQ&feature=related

Not at all confusing. As a basketball coach, I've used that kind of analogy to describe giving good fouls. There are times when you do what the rules say you are not supposed to do; because in the long run it allows you to kick ass.

A foul is an infraction; but if my players get thru a game with no fouls, they will hear it from me for not playing hard enough and for not pushing their abilities to the edge.

Not exactly the same, but similar idea. It's one of those "Here's the rules; and here's how we actually play the game" kinda things.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[frequentfaller 0]

yeah man 2012. the mahans new. they heard it from buuda who was cruisin around with noah on they're way to atlantis to party with thor and wonder woman.
wackos? who is wacko? i rad it some where. that means its true.

Born ok 1st time.

[pirana 0]

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>Isn't the end of the US or was it the world supposed to happen before he
>gets out of office?

His most recent update:

==========================
Some time ago, I interpreted some biblical prophecies that spoke clearly of the end of the USA, ( NOT the end of the world as some thought), and I mentioned it would take place before the end of Bush's 2nd term.

Well, a continuance of research causes me to believe it will not be before the end of Bush's 2nd term, but shortly after his successor is elected to the President's
office, ......sometime before September of 2009.

This will be the 62nd WEEK ( of years) of Daniel's prophecy, and either shortly before or shortly after New York City and Washington are wiped off the map, a very large asteroid will hit in mid Atlantic, causing enormous problems to the east coast of North America and the west coast of Europe.

I just thought I would bring everyone interested up to date.

Nevertheless, you won't have to wait too long....it IS going to take place.....just a few extra months to enjoy yourselves while you can.....maybe a few extra jumps !
===========================

So now we have another year before the asteroid hits and the US collapses.

Guaran-fucking-teed that just before the date, or immediately following, there will be another adjustment. They just keep peddling the pablum and moving the date.

Anybody here familiar with a deranged goof named Nancy Lieder? I think she originally had Planet X slamming into Earth back in 2002. She had quite a following in the woo-woo crowd for a while, but now even they have abandoned her.

She claimed that Planet X was hiding behind the Sun or Moon or other such nonsense, that she was channeling information from aliens (Zeta somebodys), and a whole load of other crap. The last Big Date she had given was end of May 2005 (that I am aware of).

After several non-events, and subsequent date changes, I think she finally quieted down. Or maybe her family finally was able to get her committed. That is the only reason I can figure for her not getting into the 2012 thing in a big way.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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I wish the End Times thing would just happen so we could get it over with & all these date-setters would finally STFU.

I think we could just set up a big show in the valley of Armageddon, complete with angels, 4 horsemen, the Beast with 7 heads, special effects, celebrity guests, live music, refreshment/souvenir/t-shirt booths, etc.

It's in the desert so there'd be plenty of free parking.


It would be nice to just get this done once and for all.

Whose with me?

Don't they call it Burning Man?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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Just how many times was the world supposed to have ended by now?

I did a little research on this a few years ago.

From 1900 to 2000, it is either right around 60, or right around 100 well documented cases of some significant sized following of people (whatever that means) claiming the end was near, and giving at least a range of dates, if not a specific date.

People like Reverend Jones and his followers, Nancy Lieder and her minions, and other various goofballs.

The world is stubborn though, it just keeps on going on regardless of what the wackos say or do.

It might be good if they all took the Jonestown approach and killed themselves just before they thought the end was upon us. That way, they would all eventually be gone and the human gene pool would have gotten a much needed purge.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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I think we could just set up a big show in the valley of Armageddon, complete with angels, 4 horsemen, the Beast with 7 heads, special effects, celebrity guests, live music, refreshment/souvenir/t-shirt booths, etc.

It's in the desert so there'd be plenty of free parking.

You've just described Burning Man

Apologies for my not reading the entire thread before posting a duplicate of someone else's comments. It won't happen again.

Actually, that is a lie. I do it all the time and will continue to do so. I'm just not one to read an entire thread before responding.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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then why leave haliburton? CEOs make a lot more than vp's of govt.

Because they can make policy changes (which do not require passage of a law) that significantly impact the dealings of government, including it's relationships with business; especially the ones that our supposed leaders work for/have worked for/own stock in.

Why do you think the governement continues to develop and buy weapons that are obsolete from private companies?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Rstanley0312 1]

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It all depends on the book you are reading. If it is written in metaphoric style i.e. Revelation which is apocolyptic literature then it is metaphoric but if it written with literal language then it means what is says like the synoptic gospels excluding the parables which are just that, parables. Just for the record the Bible has not really changed since it was originally written and actually the mistakes in translation have almost been completely eliminated. Where we are unsure, many versions like the New American Standard Bible will tell you where there is confusion and the possible options. That is only 2% of the scriptures. Bottom line though it still comes down to faith even though the Bible still is the most hisorically accurate document ever created.

Umm. Riiiiigght. You must've been there to witness those goings-on?

I will refer you to some basic info about the King James Bible. This, for example:

Quote

The king gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its beliefs about an ordained clergy.

Or maybe you were talking about the Bibles before the Hampton Court Conference. Maybe the Bishop's Bible? Or the Great Bible?

The king James version originally was horrible so I agree with you on that account. The translations were a disgrace however the New King James Version has sinced corrected those errors and the slant the court put on the version.

As for my quote on histoical accuracy...... the staement is FACT! Take out the divine and focus on the events, wars, etc. and it is proven accurate. It is used every day to find tels to dig at and has never been proven wrong. A majority of historians and archeologists would agree to that point. Don't try and make me out to be a fanatic or something. One of my biggest pet peeves are what I call "stupid Christian"... the ones who preach all of the time and have the stupid bumper stickers on the car that say "in case of rapture this car will be unmanned" but i have a right to my faith and never press it on others. I don't think Christ ever did that so I don't either. What I am stating about the Bible is true though..... again you do not have to believe in it but you can not detract from its historical significance.

Blues
Rob

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[billvon 2,991]

>It is used every day to find tels to dig at and has never been proven wrong.

Uh, you do realize they've found human fossils that are 1.3 million years old, animal fossils that are 500 million years old and fossils of dendritic algae that are 2.1 billion years old, right? That sorta proves the whole Adam and Eve thing wrong, unless you are into the whole "well, what the Bible calls the first day was 4 billion years, and the second day was 400 million years, and the third day . . ." etc.

> A majority of historians and archeologists would agree to that point.

No geologist would.

[shropshire 0]

I agree with one single part of your post ... The Bible has historical significance.

But the rest ... not so much.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[frequentfaller 0]

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Because they can make policy changes (which do not require passage of a law) that significantly impact the dealings of government, including it's relationships with business; especially the ones that our supposed leaders work for/have worked for/own stock in.

yeah that evil bastard has deferred compensation from Halliburton under an arrangement he made in 1998, and also retains stock options. He has pledged to give after-tax proceeds of the stock options to charity.

Born ok 1st time.

[Rstanley0312 1]

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>It is used every day to find tels to dig at and has never been proven wrong.

Uh, you do realize they've found human fossils that are 1.3 million years old, animal fossils that are 500 million years old and fossils of dendritic algae that are 2.1 billion years old, right? That sorta proves the whole Adam and Eve thing wrong, unless you are into the whole "well, what the Bible calls the first day was 4 billion years, and the second day was 400 million years, and the third day . . ." etc.

> A majority of historians and archeologists would agree to that point.

No geologist would.

Bill........... you are missing what I am saying. I think the earth being created in days is "divine" and I don't believe creation is science. I am talking historical accuracy of what has occured after creation like wars, people, cities, major events excluding the divine. I already stated it still comes down to faith and if you don't believe I have no problem with that nor would I ever look at you or anyone else differently for it. It is my faith and it is okay you have yours whatever it may be. I am not preaching nor am i asking anyone to believe in the divine acts in the Bible I am stating I believe but I am also stating the significance of what the Bible has given us in the way of history and archeology. I first response was to someone basically discounting the Bible entirely I am just stating you cannnot do that.

Rob

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Remster 30]

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I am talking historical accuracy of what has occured after creation like wars, people, cities, major events excluding the divine

So its an accurate historical document, for everything except things that have to do with religion?

Cool.

Remster

[Rstanley0312 1]

Glad you are cool with that.... I of course believe it is accurate in more ways than that but that is my faith and belief. It is impossible to argue faith with facts. I realize this unlike most Christians. I am saying it is historically accurate though. That really was the only point I was making but everyone wanted to flog the Christian boy....... HA I am kidding of course

Blues

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[billvon 2,991]

>I am talking historical accuracy of what has occured after creation
>like wars, people, cities, major events excluding the divine.

OK, fair enough. If you exclude Genesis, the prophecies in Ezekial, and all the internal inconsistencies (like numbers/dates that don't match) then I'll grant you that it is, overall, roughly accurate.

It is certainly not one of the more accurate books, though. One example:
==============
2 Samuel 10:18 (New King James Version)

18 Then the Syrians fled before Israel; and David killed seven hundred charioteers and forty thousand horsemen of the Syrians, and struck Shobach the commander of their army, who died there.

1 Chronicles 19:18 (New King James Version)

18 Then the Syrians fled before Israel; and David killed seven thousand charioteers and forty thousand foot soldiers of the Syrians, and killed Shophach the commander of the army.
===============

The story of Chronicles is an interesting one. It's basically from an author who disagreed with a bunch of stuff in the Bible and wanted to print "corrections." They both can't be right.

[Rstanley0312 1]

Chronicles is interesting and you are right... the author wanted to "add" or correct "history". If you look at early translation you will find that one of the two exmples you gave is what was originally written or the earliest we have. With the King James version not only did they get a lot of the translation wrong because the court wanted its own slant on it but they also had a few differences in early manuscripts so in the example you gave they decided to use both..... ah human error..... anyway I believe in the Bible and its over all truth because of my faith but I have no defense against mistakes over time or wrong translations. Faith in what I believe to be the over all truths is what matters to me but any Christian who says there is not content in it to be argued is insane. I believe what really matters has endured.

Rob

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[billvon 2,991]

>With the King James version not only did they get a lot of the
>translation wrong because the court wanted its own slant on it but they
>also had a few differences in early manuscripts . . .

Agreed. Which is why I try to stick with the NJKV.

>I believe in the Bible and its over all truth . . .

I agree there too. Taken as a lesson, the Bible is a great source of enlightenment. Its deficiencies as a science book or a history book are not all that important (to me.)