Sockin' It to Hamas

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

Because for some reason its ok when the Israelis kill people even with there better equipment and much more advanced army. But if an Arab does it he is a “Terrorist”

Hypocrisy.

Bullcrap.

Israel doesn't DELIBERATELY target civilians - Hamas does. Israel doesn't use innocents as human shields - Hamas does.

Nonsense. Isreal targets civilians all the time.
If this is how they treat Jews how do they treat Arabs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSNnyAGSGPc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9FP7VKGlc8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P07rKSZPup0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT2N-pqwZfg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsJ0cWWpaA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W99Y78k5EaY&feature=related

Gaza=Warsaw

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rushmc 23]

As for 'Magic Negro' I think the politically correct term is 'Black Magic'

I find it funny the news and reactions this term is getting.

Seeing how a liberal Democratic news person and a Democrat Senator inspired the term and printed it first.


More drama to come I think

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Skyrad 0]

I didn't know that, I thought it was just something John made up. In that case thats pretty shocking. It seems that the US really is still very divided if that can be said in the national media.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[falxori 0]

so now youtube is the oracle of truth?

yes, Israel hurt civilians, it doesnt make them the target.
here is another video for you, it shows Hamas firing mortar shells 2 feet from a UN school. who is to blame when the school gets hit when Israeli forces return fire?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Bullcrap.

Israel doesn't DELIBERATELY target civilians - Hamas does. Israel doesn't use innocents as human shields - Hamas does.

Perspective

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Bullcrap.

Israel doesn't DELIBERATELY target civilians - Hamas does. Israel doesn't use innocents as human shields - Hamas does.

Perspective

That does not make my statement untrue.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

That does not make my statement untrue.

I suppose most of those stories simply show the IDF's tolerance for "collateral damage".
"On 1 Jan. '09, the Israeli army killed four women and eleven children when it bombed the house of Nizar Rayan, a senior Hamas official, in the Jabalya refugee camp."

But your two assertions have been debunked previously with testimony, photo, and video to support it. I don't really want to dig them up more examples because I don't want to start a tit for tat exchange.
It's wrong when either side does it, and they both do.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

But your two assertions have been debunked previously with testimony, photo, and video to support it.

Selective reading? Please note I said "deliberately".

Compare / contrast to Hamas using houses, mosques and hospitals as launch points for their rockets. Sorry, but you don't have the moral high ground here, regardless of how fervently you believe Israel to be the bad guy and Hamas to be innocent victims.

All Hamas had to do was quit fucking launching rockets - sucks to be them, since they're now reaping what they've sown.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[falxori 0]

Quote

It's wrong when either side does it, and they both do

what is wrong?
hurting civilians? yes.
targeting civilians? much more so.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

All Hamas had to do was quit fucking launching rockets

Other Arab nations could also let all those "refugees" move out. They won't let them, even those that want to.

We are all engines of karma

[AndyBoyd 0]

"what is wrong?
hurting civilians? yes.
targeting civilians? much more so."

What do you mean by "targeting"? Here's a hypothetical question. Suppose Israeli forces discover that Hamas is firing rockets from a school playground somewhere in the Gaza Strip. Israel also knows that Hamas fighters are holed up somewhere in or very near the school. Israel decides to bomb the school in order to kill the Hamas fighters and destroy the rockets. But Israel knows that if it does this Palestinian civilians, including schoolchildren, will be killed and injured. Would you argue that Israel has "targeted" the Hamas fighters and the rockets but has not "targeted" the civilians? If that's your argument, you are drawing a very fine line.

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

And some of the Indians (Comanches, Apaches, Sioux) wanted us dead just because we were white Europeans.

....or did they have another reason?

They wanted our blue jeans.

That would be brown jeans, maybe tan.

Pretty sure that was before they started dying them blue.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[falxori 0]

first of all, that's not how it usually happens.
I personally know of many cases where a Hamas target was recognized and no action was taken because there were civilians very close.

what usually happens is that in the middle of a fierce battle the Israeli forces spot the source of the fire and fire back. the forces on the ground don't always know who is there, all they know is there is enemy fire from there.

yes, sometimes you will accept civilian casualties if a target is important enough. and yes, if Hamas uses a school to launch rockets from, they are also responsible for it being hit. Israel targeted the source of the fire, whoever used a school as a source of fire is responsible for the result.

it is bloody and I hope it will stop. but i see a huge difference between targeting and not targeting civilians.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[pirana 0]

Quote

And to believe that somehow the magic negro . . .

That's got a kinda cute ring to it; but way more nasty than cute.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Darius11 12]

Quote

Quote

All Hamas had to do was quit fucking launching rockets

Other Arab nations could also let all those "refugees" move out. They won't let them, even those that want to.

I don’t know how you determine justice in your mind, but I don’t hold people responsible based on race. Just as I don’t expect every African American to go to Africa and help out, or expect every American of European dissent to be responsible for any problems the Europeans might have.

So just because someone is Arab it doesn’t mean they have some responsibility to all Arabs.

In my mind the people who commit the injustice are responsible.

In the past 8 years all Israel has done is expand settlements, and I know Ori claims that all the people were there but the population has increased by 45-50% in less then a decade(imported people on stolen land).

I don’t get why this is a hard concept for people specially Americans grasp.

Someone who has takin your home, and killed your people decides hey ill give you a room to live in, and I will control every thing that goes out or in of that room, oh and if you want money you can only clean my toilet. It is as simple as that at the root.

Many of you are saying hay that’s a great deal because of incredibly one sided or simply false memory. It seems you have forgotten who used to live there not to long a go. Ori is right that there were Jews in that mix too however there were Jews, Muslims, And Christians in that mix before Israel was formed in to a Jewish state.
Now that Jewish state has done nothing but Oppress the weak, and Israel has shown no respect for International law (which some excuse when it is convenient).


Also how hard is it to understand Hamas’s methods? Do they have a capable army like Israel? No
There option is to Fight any way they can, or give up their home land and stop fighting for what was theirs 60 years ago.

I know I wouldn’t just turn and run if I was wronged. I don’t expect them to either. I don’t think any of us would act that differently even if some think they are so much better they simply have not suffered as much or placed in A situation where all they have is suffering caused by who they see as the intruder.

What’s crazy is if Perspective was different and all the US politicians and the Media was not in the tank for Israel; Hamas would be viewed as they are by many as freedom fighters who will not give up no matter what the cost. They would be viewed as heroes by most of you. The inocent life would be excused by most of you as well, just as you excuse Israel and our own troops when they kill.



On a side note; I think the best coverage so far has been done by the Daily show. John Actually made fun of how in the tank the Media and the politicians are for Israel. The good news is many have learned to make up their own mind, and not trust the Media. The bad news is offcourse that some think it is the gospal

I truly believe that soon we will stop all aid to Israel I can only hope. I feel like my tax dollars are going to the Nazi party and there is nothing I can do about it.


In case you want to watch

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=213380&title=strip-maul

funny and sad.

3:45 is a good point

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

As far as Hamas not caring about the Palestinian people, would you say that Churchill did not care about the British people? His decision to bomb German cities cost many, many civilian English lives, but it was essential to victory.

That is the most ridiculus example yet.

Comparing Arafat to Churchill??!!!

[AndyBoyd 0]

"yes, sometimes you will accept civilian casualties if a target is important enough. and yes, if Hamas uses a school to launch rockets from, they are also responsible for it being hit. Israel targeted the source of the fire, whoever used a school as a source of fire is responsible for the result."

Then Israel targets civilans sometimes. To say otherwise is just dishonest. I'm not sure Israel is entitled to the moral high ground here. But neither is Hamas. I have no horse in this race.

"it is bloody and I hope it will stop."

I agree.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

So a teacher that is punched by a student should then punch the said student to show him who is boss? That type of thinking is seriously flawed, the reason the world is at war constantly and is contributing to the problems rather than resolving them.

It wouldn't necessarily be a punch in return, but some punishment must ensue against the student to stop future attacks.

The people on the Palestinian side here would seem to think that the teacher in this analogy should just let the student continue to punch him anytime he feels like it, and that nothing should be done about it.

That is what would truly be a screwed-up strategy. It would encourage more students to punch more teachers, thereby spreading the violence further, rather than quelling it.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Selective reading? Please note I said "deliberately".

Yes, deliberately. There's plenty of evidence available for an open mind.

Quote

Compare / contrast to Hamas using houses, mosques and hospitals as launch points for their rockets. Sorry, but you don't have the moral high ground here, regardless of how fervently you believe Israel to be the bad guy and Hamas to be innocent victims.

It's hard to have a discussion with someone who isn't paying attention. And you accuse me of selective reading? I have never considered Hamas to be innocent victims. I said that I UNDERSTAND why they might be pissed off though because I've done enough research to see what the conditions are like in Gaza.
Hamas violates international law and the laws of war.
Israel violates international law and the laws of war.
Look into it for yourself and you just might be surprised at what you find.

[falxori 0]

Quote

Then Israel targets civilans sometimes

I disagree,
what is the alternative, not shoot back because they are using human shields, against any war convention?

when you are under fire, you fire back. you try to hit only those who are actual firing but it is not always possible (and Hamas is making sure it won't be easy).

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[billvon 3,065]

>I didn't know that, I thought it was just something John made up.

Nope. Unfortunately, it's not, and was recorded and sent out to republicans by Chip Saltsman, a candidate for Republican National Committee chairman. Rush Limbaugh has been playing it on his show.

>It seems that the US really is still very divided if that can be said in the
>national media.

I have no problem with it being said on national media. Shows the country what kind of a guy Chip Saltsman is.

[beowulf 1]

Quote

Quote

As far as Hamas not caring about the Palestinian people, would you say that Churchill did not care about the British people? His decision to bomb German cities cost many, many civilian English lives, but it was essential to victory.

That is the most ridiculus example yet.

Comparing Arafat to Churchill??!!!

Try to keep up. Arafat was not a member of Hamas.

[Darius11 12]

A good comparison for Hamas is our revolutionary solders.
They were viewed as dishonorable because back then gorilla warfare was considered dishonorable, but it was the only way our revolutionary solders could compete and fight against the British.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[shropshire 0]

Quote

A good comparison for Hamas is our revolutionary solders.
They were viewed as dishonorable because back then gorilla warfare was considered dishonorable, but it was the only way our revolutionary solders could compete and fight against the British.

... and not to mention Irgun (never did a nicer bunch of people ever walk this planet)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[beowulf 1]

The revolutionary war didn't last as long as the Palestinians have been fighting.

The Palestinians have not been making any head way and one day they need to stop and admit to themselves that violence is not getting them anything but more dead people. Lobbing missles at Isreal has done nothing to help the Palestinians at all.