Sockin' It to Hamas

[StreetScooby 5]

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Of course, in this case, Judaism has devolved into an endless series of reprisal attacks (which, of course, were brought about by the above revenge attacks.)

So, you are claiming that Israel has shown no restraint? We'll have to disagree if that's the case.

We are all engines of karma

[wmw999 2,452]

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So, Islam is NOT a religion of peace in practice

"Turn the other cheek" comes from the Sermon on the Mount, which is pretty Christian. Judaism does ask one to love one's brother as one's self, but it also says an eye for an eye. I'll bet that there's stuff in Islam about loving one's brother and neighbor and doing good, too.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,998]

>So, you are claiming that Israel has shown no restraint?

Nope, I have not claimed that. In the past they have shown restraint. They're not showing it now.

[Darius11 12]

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So, Islam is NOT a religion of peace in practice.

No its focuse is on justice as there will always be people who brake the peace.

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In practice, it devolves into an endless series of revenge attacks.

It will if no justice is ever served.

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Peace only occurs when one side has completely vanquished the other.

Or they can decide to be just. Once justice is served there is no need for fighting.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Kids who grow up constantly running in and out of bomb shelters are going to hate their enemies. There's no need to teach it.

I know people who spent part of their youth sleeping in London tube tunnels. They got over it. Hell even the Irish are learning to get over it.
You can choose to teach your children that some day the war will end, or you can teach them that peace is not possible.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Hamas' charter calls for the recapturing of the State of Israel and its replacement with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now named Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip

Source: (yes I know its wiki)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

How, exactly, is there ever going to be peace between these 2 groups of people (Hamas, and Isrial) when ones own "mission", as it were, is to completely take over the other's country?

I hate to say it, but this looks like a case of there will only be peace when one or the other group is completely wiped out.

Wiki "Zionism" while you're at it. It's not just one party whose mission statement is to "take over the other's country."
But thankfully, "Hamas" does not equal "Palestinian" and "Zionist" does not equal "Israeli". So it's not completely hopeless. Kind of hard to sell that notion at the moment though.

[StreetScooby 5]

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It will if no justice is ever served.

So, who gets to define what justice is?

We are all engines of karma

[beowulf 1]

The problem is no one will be able to agree when justice is served. So the violence will continue unabated.

[Darius11 12]

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Kids who grow up constantly running in and out of bomb shelters are going to hate their enemies. There's no need to teach it.

Gosh -- ya think the same thing applies in both directions?

Its sad how he doesn’t see the hypocrisy in his own words.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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So, Islam is NOT a religion of peace in practice.

No its focuse is on justice as there will always be people who brake the peace.

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In practice, it devolves into an endless series of revenge attacks.

It will if no justice is ever served.

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Peace only occurs when one side has completely vanquished the other.

Or they can decide to be just. Once justice is served there is no need for fighting.

It does seem that once conflict is established it must continue until one side is broken; there is no room for compromise.

[futuredivot 0]

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Are they really all that different?

Yes, you're using a singular example that was condemned by the Isralies to justify what is a consistant Hamas tactic.

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There are many other examples of Israeli soldiers using human shields

Define "many".

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Darius11 12]

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It will if no justice is ever served.

So, who gets to define what justice is?

That’s a good question. I tend to lean towards one side so I would not be the best person to ask on this subject.


But I think when you have two groups of people who have a claim to a land the land should be divided fairly and evenly. I don’t know why I think that’s justice but it makes sense does it not?

And to be more detailed the land has to be divided evenly not just in shear size but also in locations and tepography

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[billvon 2,998]

>Or they can decide to be just. Once justice is served there is no need for fighting.

There is no justice during war, and there cannot be. The only metric in a war is who can hurt the other side more during a war.

What is justice during wartime? A helicopter pilot who kills a 2 month old baby during a rocket attack is given a medal. A Hamas militant who launches rocket attacks into a school is praised by his fellow militants. That's justice during wartime.

Peace has to come before justice.

[falxori 0]

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Wiki "Zionism" while you're at it. It's not just one party whose mission statement is to "take over the other's country."

actually that's not what Zionism is about.

and to the rest of you comparing religions, this is really NOT about religion. it has never been about religion.
some TRY to make it about religion and for the sake of us all, i hope they will not succeed.

this is a dispute over land and over way of life. the fact that Hamas is ultra religions fantatic and sponsored by an insane regime like Iran doesn't help. but still it is not about religion.

Israel has peace with several arab/muslim countries, and there are actually quite a few muslims and many druze who serve in the Israeli army.
don't make it about religion, its not.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

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The problem is no one will be able to agree when justice is served. So the violence will continue unabated.

I agree.

It is truly unfortunate.

This will not do either side any good.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[StreetScooby 5]

I think the bigger issue here, as I've discovered today, is that Islam deems itself to be an arbiter of justice. That's a slippery slope, and explains alot to me. Islam can't even get along with itself, e.g., Sunni vs. Shia! I no longer expect they'll get a long with my culture.

We are all engines of karma

[Darius11 12]

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It does seem that once conflict is established it must continue until one side is broken; there is no room for compromise.

Well depends on what you are discussing.
It is not unusual for people to fight until they receive justice. Or claim that the can not have any peace untill they recive some justice
Some times you can fight with a pen some times you have to fight with a gun really depends on your situation and the environment you are fighting in.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[beowulf 1]

Why do you continue to make excuses for Hamas?

[falxori 0]

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No Ori, it means that the Israeli government is teaching the children to hate. They (you) are laying the foundation for war without end. So ye sew,...

you take one picture, take it out of context and build a whole theory based on it.
this picture was taken during the 2006 war when local kids who were under heavy fire from Hezbollah were visiting a local outpost.
I agree, it was wrong to let them anywhere near these shells but that's not the point.

you are comparing this to a system where young kids are sent to "military" camps and trained (and sometimes used) for combat.
if you compare school text books you will be amazed by the stuff you find in official palestinian books.

I grew up in Israel, the point you are trying to promote is simply not true. not even close.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

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I think the bigger issue here, as I've discovered today, is that Islam deems itself to be an arbiter of justice. That's a slippery slope, and explains alot to me. Islam can't even get along with itself, e.g., Sunni vs. Shia! I no longer expect they'll get a long with my culture.

Yea but your not being fair.
You can pick and choose lines from Christianity and Judaism that are just as violent or illogical.
Also infighting is not a problem that is just an Islamic phenomenon. Remember the first “terrorist” ever were the IRA.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kelpdiver 2]

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Kids who grow up constantly running in and out of bomb shelters are going to hate their enemies. There's no need to teach it.

I know people who spent part of their youth sleeping in London tube tunnels. They got over it. Hell even the Irish are learning to get over it.
You can choose to teach your children that some day the war will end, or you can teach them that peace is not possible.

Your examples are people "getting over it" after the fighting has stopped. This isn't the case here.

[falxori 0]

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It is not unusual for people to fight until they receive justice. Or claim that the can not have any peace untill they recive some justice

and when your "self defined" justice cannot coexist with someone else's justice?

its very easy to claim you want to be "just" when you are the one defining what just means...

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[kelpdiver 2]

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Kids who grow up constantly running in and out of bomb shelters are going to hate their enemies. There's no need to teach it.

Gosh -- ya think the same thing applies in both directions?

Its sad how he doesn’t see the hypocrisy in his own words.

It's sad that you both failed to comprehend the point being made. Focus on the second sentence.

Children aren't being taught to hate, they're learning it because of the actions of their enemies.

It's also sad that Hamas leadership continues this stalemate knowing its people will continue to pay the larger price. It falls within the definition of insanity - continuing to repeat the same failed action despite negative results.

[falxori 0]

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You can pick and choose lines from Christianity and Judaism that are just as violent or illogical.

or you can move on and stop following rules that are 1500-3000 years old...

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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you are comparing this to a system where young kids are sent to "military" camps and trained (and sometimes used) for combat.
if you compare school text books you will be amazed by the stuff you find in official palestinian books.

No, I am not comparing it to anything. Morality is not comparative; it only compares action with belief. Teaching those children that hate is good, that it has official sanction, is bad. Not bad for the the palestinians, but bad for the children themselves.