Darius11 12 #501 January 9, 2009 Quote Same same your country protecting you by attacking Irak? It makes it a lot more safer now when a half country with 3 generations hating you + alot more in the whole Arab world? Do you really believe your country will be safer in the future when the canons going silent? That’s the major problem. This will do nothing but kill people. It will embolden Hamas just as Hezbolah was embolden when they attacked Lebanon. Stupid move with no results other then death. But off course we always have some people who sit home in their nice house and from there they are very brave and have no issue wishing death, and misery on people who might not even have a drink of water this week. Fucking ridicules. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #502 January 9, 2009 QuoteIn a tit for tat game, the weaker side should stop with the tit, because they're losing heavily when the IDF responds with the tat At least you’re consistent. I understand your philosophy is might makes right, and that’s is the way it often works. I just think we can do better. We will not always have the might it would be great if we showed restraint and patience to ones weaker then us. The world would be a better place because all trough history power has changed hands. If in the whatever years of humane history we still have not evolved past might makes right it is a point of disappointment for me not jubilance.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #503 January 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteIn a tit for tat game, the weaker side should stop with the tit, because they're losing heavily when the IDF responds with the tat At least you’re consistent. I understand your philosophy is might makes right, and that’s is the way it often works. If we accept that Israel exists now (I do, you think it shouldn't), then they're both right and might. If they didn't have the might, they would have been killed in one of the numerous wars in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, started by their neighbors. If you believe it is a stalemate, then I think it falls on Hamas to stop, so their people won't suffer. Peace has a much greater potential to improve their lives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #504 January 10, 2009 Just what exactly is tat, and where can I exchange it for that other thing? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #505 January 10, 2009 Quote If we accept that Israel exists now (I do, you think it shouldn't), then they're both right and might. They have the might, we've insured that. They also have the right to exist. But do they have the right to expand their borders and occupy their neighbors land, maintaining a concentration camp in one area and using the military to create a second class citizenry in the other? The latter seems to be what the US and Israel has in mind. Remember, the 2000 proposal that Arafat turned down basically created three reservations in the West Bank. That's not a sovereign, contiguous state. There needs to be a fair solution. Quote If you believe it is a stalemate, then I think it falls on Hamas to stop, so their people won't suffer. Peace has a much greater potential to improve their lives. Agreed, but is giving in to prisoner status and oppressed second class a fair requirement for "peace"? It needs to be fair. Even Ori seems to realize that, at least in the West Bank. (Which I find interesting. He's more realistic and fair minded toward the Palestinians than most Israel supporters that I know here in the US). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #506 January 10, 2009 They are God´s chosen people! How can they be wrong? It is the land God gave them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #507 January 10, 2009 QuoteBut do they have the right to expand their borders and occupy their neighbors land, maintaining a concentration camp in one area and using the military to create a second class citizenry in the other? well pretty much all cases where Israel "expanded" its borders were the result of wars it did not initiate (including 67 where it was a pre-emptive strike which we can discuss if you do not agree). Israel never annexed the west bank or Gaza. it gave back lands it siezed in 67 and 73 in return for cease fires and then peace and it pulled our of Gaza completely. Quotethe 2000 proposal that Arafat turned down basically created three reservations in the West Bank. That's not a sovereign, contiguous state. it gave him over 90% of the west bank with the rest in land swaps. and it would have resulted in a sovereign state. Arafat didnt accept it because he wouldn't give up allowing all of the Palestinian refugees back in Israel. QuoteAgreed, but is giving in to prisoner status and oppressed second class a fair requirement for "peace"? not that i think the Palestinians are prisoners but, if a prisoner acts violently whenever you give him some freedom, he usually stay locked up/ "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #508 January 11, 2009 How many times will we come full circle before we notice that we're seeing the same foot prints? I'm taking the easy way out tonight. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2875825;search_string=positive%20steps;#2875825 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #509 January 11, 2009 I don't start new threads so I figured this article would fit in here. Two well placed sources confirmed to FOX News that Israel last year made "various requests" for U.S. assistance with a planned Israeli air strike on Iran's nuclear program. Israel's plan, however, was scuttled when the United States rebuffed Israel in its request to fly through Iraqi airspace, according to a New York Times report on a covert U.S. program. The Times story, published Saturday, cites unnamed American and foreign officials in reporting that President Bush also turned away an Israeli request for bunker-busting bombs for use in its planned attack on the Iranian nuclear complex. The president then revealed to the Israelis that he already had authorized a covert U.S. effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear capabilities, the Times reports. Pretty interesting, imo. ---------------------------------------------------------- In the interest of SC partisanship, I find this last line funny. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong. "It's yet another example," said one source, "of the Bush administration morphing into the Obama administration before Obama was elected." Sounds like a fancy worded excuse for Obama carrying on Bush policy. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #510 January 11, 2009 QuoteHow many times will we come full circle before we notice that we're seeing the same foot prints? we'll do is as many times as you keep bringing up the same ridiculus claims I didn't count, but I'm pretty sure that most of these threads were started by Darius and you, so don't complain when I'm forced to refute the same repetitive things over and over again... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #511 January 11, 2009 Obama and his stab will be better of for Israel, and I think we can expect Israel will have more support than under Bush administration! It will be interesting to see his first speak about the situation in the middle east. We maybe should be happy Israel is busy with the Palestinian? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #512 January 11, 2009 QuoteQuoteHow many times will we come full circle before we notice that we're seeing the same foot prints? we'll do is as many times as you keep bringing up the same ridiculus claims I didn't count, but I'm pretty sure that most of these threads were started by Darius and you, so don't complain when I'm forced to refute the same repetitive things over and over again... Ridiculous claims? Refute? Ok, then to clarify, could you answer a question for me? Do you think that three non contiguous regions (meaning internal travel subject to the IDF's approval), bisected by a road from Jerusalem to the Jordan River (a corridor that Palestinians may not cross), completely surrounded by the IDF and Israeli settlements, airspace controlled by Israel, ingress/egress, controlled by Israel, electromagnetic spectrum controlled by Israel, import/export controlled by Israel, etc., is a viable and independent Palestinian state in the West Bank? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #513 January 11, 2009 QuoteRidiculous claims? Refute? I meant your link to the other thread. you are assuming many things that were hardly negotiated at all and look at the first step out of many that would have ended with 91% of the west bank, all of Gaza and the rest in land swaps as the palestinian state. the main reason for the failure of camp david was the right of return and Arafat's refusal to stop terrorism. looking at Gaza and the amount of explosive smuggled into it, do you really think it would have been a good idea to let a terror infested PA full control of the borders right away? O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #514 January 12, 2009 QuoteQuoteRidiculous claims? Refute? I meant your link to the other thread. you are assuming many things that were hardly negotiated at all and look at the first step out of many that would have ended with 91% of the west bank, all of Gaza and the rest in land swaps as the palestinian state. the main reason for the failure of camp david was the right of return and Arafat's refusal to stop terrorism. looking at Gaza and the amount of explosive smuggled into it, do you really think it would have been a good idea to let a terror infested PA full control of the borders right away? O You're right, Israel and Clinton blamed the failure on Arafat's right of return demands. And admittedly that's a sticky subject that remains, I don't know how that will eventually be dealt with. But that aside, that was not the only problem. What I described was a brief but accurate description of the proposal. It basically came down to, "move on to these four reservations, and although Israel will be incomplete control of your lives, if we feel like it, you might get your own "state" in 15-25 years, still surrounded by Israeli settlements. I wouldn't sign it, and I wouldn't expect you to either. And anyone with any knowledge of Native American history would probably be able to explain the likely end result. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #515 January 12, 2009 QuoteAnd anyone with any knowledge of Native American history would probably be able to explain the likely end result. Kewl.... Palistinian casino's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #516 January 12, 2009 from b3ta.com Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #517 January 13, 2009 The difference between a Hamas fighter and an Israeli soldier. Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #518 January 13, 2009 QuotePretty much says it all, doesn't it? No not even close.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #519 January 13, 2009 >Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? So does this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #520 January 13, 2009 Quote>Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? So does this. I guess the gods of war can read the address they are putting on them better that those in Hamasistan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #521 January 13, 2009 Quote Quote >Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? So does this. I guess the gods of war can read the address they are putting on them better that those in Hamasistan. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #522 January 13, 2009 Some people steal because there kids are hungry and they have no other choice some do it because they don’t see a problem with it. Same can be said about the loss of life. Which is more evil or wrong a crime of necessity or a crime of no conscience?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #523 January 13, 2009 >Which is more evil or wrong a crime of necessity or a crime of no conscience? Both are evil and wrong. In the end, the person killed is just as dead, no matter why he was killed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #524 January 13, 2009 Your lack of compassion for the loss of life, and how you excuse any cruelty that is done on too The Palestinians is disturbing. Not to mention you over all hatred that you represent for people you know nothing about. The loss of inocent life on any side is a loss of life. That to me is a bad thing.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #525 January 13, 2009 QuoteSome people steal because there kids are hungry and they have no other choice some do it because they don’t see a problem with it. Same can be said about the loss of life. Which is more evil or wrong a crime of necessity or a crime of no conscience? I agree that the callousness that the Israelis treat the Palestinians is immoral, I do not believe for one moment that the immoral disregard for opponent's children is not equally shared by the Palestinians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
