Andrewwhyte 1 #51 January 7, 2009 The point is the entire system is based upon one arbitrary metric, the number of digits on our hands, and the properties of water. The American system is a collection of arbitrary measurements. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #52 January 7, 2009 QuoteThe point is the entire system is based upon one arbitrary metric, the number of digits on our hands, and the properties of water. The American system is a collection of arbitrary measurements. Oh? Really? Where's your metric time? Still 24 hours each made of 60 minutes each made of 60 seconds the last time I looked. What, exactly, makes radians superior? Just two examples. You've been brainwashed into thinking it's a superior system when, in fact, it's just as arbitrary as anything.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #53 January 7, 2009 Metric time has not been adopted, nor has it been proposed as far as I know (except in the original Battlestar Galactica). "Give me a centon Starbuck." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #54 January 7, 2009 What would Jesus use? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CMiller 1 #55 January 7, 2009 I for one hope we don't. Then I'd have to buy a new Alti-2 in meters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #56 January 7, 2009 QuoteWhat would Jesus use? Cubits.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #57 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteNeither is arbitrary. A meter was originally 1/10,000,000 the distance from the north pole to the equator on a line of longitude running through Paris, France. It is now defined as the distance light travels in a vacuum in 1⁄299,792,458 of a second. Uh huh . . . lemme ask you this; what's so "special" about 1/10,000,000th of the distance between the pole and the equator? The real answer; nothing. It's completely arbitrary. AND they didn't even get that right so now it's redefined as some fairly bizarre distance that light travels in a vacuum in some bizarre fraction of a second, but that's also completely arbitrary and is only used so that it closely fits the original concept. The entire metric system is arbitrary. There is no basis for thinking it's superior in any way, shape or form. Quote Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-bi-trer-ee] Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, noun, plural -trar⋅ies. –adjective 1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision. 2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute. 3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government. 4. capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment. 5. Mathematics. undetermined; not assigned a specific value: an arbitrary constant. –noun 6. arbitraries, Printing. (in Britain) Origin: 1400–50; late ME < L arbitrārius uncertain (i.e., depending on an arbiter's decision). See arbiter, -ary By definition, the metric system is anything BUT arbitrary. The defintion of a metre was changed to one based upon light in a vacuum because it is constant and not subject to degradation like physical standards kept on shelves. The reason for change had absolutelty nothing to do with the accuracy of the original measurements. I don't know if they were right or not, but it is a moot point. The superioriy of the metric system lies within it's ease of use. Everything is converted from one unit to another just by moving the decimal point. When compared to the imperial system, it's a no-brainer that metrics are much simpler to use. But the biggest reason of all is that I would rather get a free litre of stout than a free pint!HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #58 January 7, 2009 How many gil is that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #59 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteNeither is arbitrary. A meter was originally 1/10,000,000 the distance from the north pole to the equator on a line of longitude running through Paris, France. It is now defined as the distance light travels in a vacuum in 1⁄299,792,458 of a second. Uh huh . . . lemme ask you this; what's so "special" about 1/10,000,000th of the distance between the pole and the equator? The real answer; nothing. It's completely arbitrary. AND they didn't even get that right so now it's redefined as some fairly bizarre distance that light travels in a vacuum in some bizarre fraction of a second, but that's also completely arbitrary and is only used so that it closely fits the original concept. The entire metric system is arbitrary. There is no basis for thinking it's superior in any way, shape or form. Quote Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-bi-trer-ee] Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, noun, plural -trar⋅ies. –adjective 1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision. 2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute. 3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government. 4. capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment. 5. Mathematics. undetermined; not assigned a specific value: an arbitrary constant. –noun 6. arbitraries, Printing. (in Britain) Origin: 1400–50; late ME < L arbitrārius uncertain (i.e., depending on an arbiter's decision). See arbiter, -ary By definition, the metric system is anything BUT arbitrary. The defintion of a metre was changed to one based upon light in a vacuum because it is constant and not subject to degradation like physical standards kept on shelves. The reason for change had absolutelty nothing to do with the accuracy of the original measurements. I don't know if they were right or not, but it is a moot point. The superioriy of the metric system lies within it's ease of use. Everything is converted from one unit to another just by moving the decimal point. When compared to the imperial system, it's a no-brainer that metrics are much simpler to use. But the biggest reason of all is that I would rather get a free litre of stout than a free pint! You might want to check the second definition again.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #60 January 7, 2009 You mean "decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute" ? Thank you for reinforcing my position. The metric system is not decided by a judge or arbiter, but rather is determined by standards set by law.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #61 January 7, 2009 >What would Jesus use? Jesus would be irate that we had dumped the biblical units of measure: Fingerbreadth Handbreadth Span (Handwidth) Cubit (Forearm length) Milin (distance you can walk in 18 minutes) Parasa (distance you can walk in 1/10 of a day) Talent (weight of an amphora of water) Weight is explained quite clearly in Ezekiel: "You shall have honest scales, an honest ephah, and an honest bath. The ephah and the bath shall be of the same measure, so that the bath contains one-tenth of a homer, and the ephah one-tenth of a homer; their measure shall be according to the homer. The shekel shall be twenty gerahs; twenty shekels, twenty-five shekels, and fifteen shekels shall be your mina. This is the offering which you shall offer: you shall give one-sixth of an ephah from a homer of wheat, and one-sixth of an from a homer of barley. The ordinance concerning oil, the bath of oil, is one-tenth of a bath from a kor. A kor is a homer or ten baths, for ten baths are a homer." And we gave all this up for what? Measurements based on some king's foot, or some supposedly round planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #62 January 7, 2009 QuoteYou mean "decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute" ? Thank you for reinforcing my position. The metric system is not decided by a judge or arbiter, but rather is determined by standards set by law. Incorrect. The SI was arbitrarily made up by some French guys trying to take over the world and was adopted by some countries that wrote it into their laws.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #63 January 7, 2009 QuoteMilin (distance you can walk in 18 minutes) Any idea how they timed that?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #64 January 7, 2009 Quote A kor is a homer or ten baths, for ten baths are a homer." http://www.mrjoe.com/MrJoe/Creative_Greenius/Entries/2008/1/18_Clean_Coal,_Healthy_Cancer_&_Evil_Jesus-__Did_I_mention_safe,_green_nuclear_files/Homer-768566.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #65 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteYou mean "decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute" ? Thank you for reinforcing my position. The metric system is not decided by a judge or arbiter, but rather is determined by standards set by law. Incorrect. The SI was arbitrarily made up by some French guys trying to take over the world and was adopted by some countries that wrote it into their laws. Ok, I see how you want to discuss the topic. You want to completely forget about how the metre was derived, what the definition of "arbitrary" is, and the obvious superiority of the metric system over imperial. BTW, I did some checking and come to find out, the French were off in their measurement of the distance from the north pole to the equator. They assumed the earth was perfectly round, which it isn't, and they were off on the length of a metre by 1/5 of a millimeter. That's .0002% of a metre. I did the calculation for you since it is so hard.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #66 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteMilin (distance you can walk in 18 minutes) Any idea how they timed that? They used one of these: http://www.beautyforashesgifts.com/files/1416405/uploaded/psalm122clock.jpg/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #67 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou mean "decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute" ? Thank you for reinforcing my position. The metric system is not decided by a judge or arbiter, but rather is determined by standards set by law. Incorrect. The SI was arbitrarily made up by some French guys trying to take over the world and was adopted by some countries that wrote it into their laws. Ok, I see how you want to discuss the topic. You want to completely forget about how the metre was derived, what the definition of "arbitrary" is, and the obvious superiority of the metric system over imperial. BTW, I did some checking and come to find out, the French were off in their measurement of the distance from the north pole to the equator. They assumed the earth was perfectly round, which it isn't, and they were off on the length of a metre by 1/5 of a millimeter. That's .0002% of a metre. I did the calculation for you since it is so hard. OK, so what is so "special" about the distance between the pole and the equator? Why not pole to pole? Why 10,000,000? What, exactly, makes the Earth the standard? It's all ARBITRARY. As I said in my very first reply in this thread . . . It's all Smoot.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #68 January 7, 2009 There is nothing "special" about that distance. But that doesn't mean it is arbitrary. Something that is arbitrary is , as in the definition, not based on anything. If some Frenchman had just held his arms apart and said, "This will be a metre. Mark it on a stick", then you would be 100% correct in saying the metric system is arbitrary. But that's not what happened. The first defintion was the length of a pendulum that swung with a 2 htz frequency. That never caught on and a few years later was changed to reflect the distance from the NP to the equator. This distance was very carefully and painstakingly calculated. That is completely opposite an arbitrary decision.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #69 January 7, 2009 QuoteThere is nothing "special" about that distance. But that doesn't mean it is arbitrary. It certainly does. It means that a guy held up his arms and declared the distance from pole to equator as being "special." It's not. Planck length isn't arbitrary. Planck time isn't arbitrary. The metric system . . . arbitrary as hell. It's the equivalent of basing binary starting at 10010111000100010101000100100100111101.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #70 January 7, 2009 Where did you get the idea that it had to be "special" to not be arbitrary? According to any definition I can find "special" has nothing to do with it.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #71 January 7, 2009 It's the word arbitrary. It means that somebody simply decided something based on their own opinion. For instance, let's say I decided that the "standard" frequency from interstellar communication was 1khz. Ok, I can use that all day and night and it's meaningless because it's arbitrary. The number 1000 probably doesn't mean anything "special" to a civilization based on base 2 or 4 or 8 or 16. So, deciding to use a multiple of 10 is stupid. further, the idea of Hz is equally stupid because other civilizations probably don't have the same idea of seconds that we do. In fact, it's highly unlikely. Along these exact same lines of reasoning, the SI is stupid. It's completely arbitrary in what it bases its standards from.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #72 January 7, 2009 You fail to comprehend to meaning of "arbitrary". Arbitrary means baseless. Pulled out of thin air. At random. No reasoning or thought behind it. The use of the earths diameter was not just used at random. It was chosen because it was stable, measurable, there was only one, and a lot of other reasons. It wasn't chosen just on impulse or by just one person, rather by careful thought by a group of scientists. Far from arbitrary. Using a base 10 system makes it easy because that is what everyone used then anyway, and we still do. So, you see, there is nothing...not one single little bit...that was or is arbitrary. Except in Quadeland.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mx757 4 #73 January 7, 2009 fuck no female figures like 36-24-36 just doesn't sound the same when converted to metic system.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #74 January 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteThere is nothing "special" about that distance. But that doesn't mean it is arbitrary. It certainly does. It means that a guy held up his arms and declared the distance from pole to equator as being "special." It's not. Not only that, but more importantly, it's not a constant - hence why they changed it to relate to the speed of light (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #75 January 7, 2009 QuoteUsing a base 10 system makes it easy because that is what everyone used then anyway, and we still do. Uh huh . . . please divide a meter into exactly 3 equal parts. Base 10 is just as arbitrary as anything and in some cases less useful.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
