Coreece 190 #1 January 16, 2009 Now this is a ban that I cannot support in good conscience. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090115/SCHOOLS/901150395/1026/LOCAL Kevin Harris, president of the Dearborn Federation of Teachers: Quote...languages other than English "contributes to an atmosphere of distrust and suspicion on the part of English-only speaking adults in the schools." "The report's concern is that there's an overuse of the native tongue when there didn't really need to be," Harris said. When English speakers choose to communicate in Arabic he said, "It does make me suspicious and I think it's rude for them to do this. If situations were reversed, how would you feel? I don't think they get that." Sounds more like a personal problem. Perhaps this guy should be more concerned with how THEY feel! QuoteNon-Arab parents like Tomara Doss, who has a daughter and a sister in the Dearborn school system, said English-only education is necessary in order to integrate a community that seems to be distant from American culture. Perhaps their distance is due to American ignorance fear, and bigotry. Quote"Schools should be all English. If you live in America, you are an American," said Doss, 33, who was picking up her sister from Fordson. "Not to take anything away from their culture, but only speaking Arabic won't give them a chance to broaden their horizons." Perhaps people like this need to broaden THEIR horizons! I cannot believe this has even been suggested considering the history of the significant Arabic population in this part of the Country...not to mention the obvious assault on free speech. Shouldn't we be outraged even at the hint of this or am I missing something yet again? I suspect this will just get rightfully dismissed just like the call to ban the Muslim "Call to Prayer" in Hamtramck, MI because some considered it noise pollution even though it had been going on for decades prior to the war. Nobody ever complained about the loud ringing of the bells comming from the 200ft Catholic Cathedral that could be heard for miles. This is the same Catholic Church adjacent to the Catholic school I attended from k-12. It has now ironically been "converted" to an academy for Arabic children. The Catholic Church is still in business however...it has not been converted to a mosque as of yet. Much of the controversy started around the same time the Arabic community started to become more visible after the war and these academies were started. To be honest, the arabic community has added value to this city and has helped to re-vitalize it to a certain extent, but unfortunately some people fail to recognize this. Hamtramck, MI is a small 2.2 square mile city within the Detroit city limits just east of Dearborn (home to the significantly larger Arabic population of which the article above was written.) Historically, Hamtramck was home primarily to Polish immigrants and adopted the slogan "A touch of Europe in America" It now has a very diverse population and changed the slogan to "A touch of the World in America." Its like Noah's Arc over here...there are atleast two of everything. I understand that many people here in this city may be uncomfortable with the rather sudden change/visibility of the arabic community. When I returned here a little over a year ago after spending just 3 years in Florida and California, I was stunned as I walked down the heart of town hearing that distinctive sound of the "Call to Prayer" comming from several new mosques, all the Arabic Sinage, and the numerous women walking around in black burkas. It was almost in a way like culture shock from the the very town in which I grew up. It barely could be recognized as an American City, but for me it didn't take long to get acquainted. Some people here have suggested that we should fear some sort of uprising/hostile takeover. I suspect that perhaps maybe this is in part why some are calling for a ban to the Arabic language. Am I so naive? Is this uprising something we should be concerned with....I forget the term for it. I think I even heard it again recently in the movie "body of lies" Personally, I feel there is nothing to fear. I have befriended those that I can and have learned that it is not proper to approach women in black burkas, but is ok to approach the Indian women usually signified by colorful burkas. I have a bosnian-muslim imigrant family living next door to me and you wouldn't even be able to tell them apart from a European Catholic family. My other nextdoor neighbors are from Kenya and there was recently a muslim family who had a mosque in their garage across the street from me...we seem to get along just fine, but I have to admit...it was up to me to initiate the relationship, which to me makes sense. If I was in a new land, I would also probably be more inclined to be reserved and keep to myself. I like the cultural diversity and especially the Indian smoke and donut shops. I've found Indians to be some of the most remarkable people...very friendly, polite, respectful and full of character. Many of the muslims are also equally friendly, but I see many, typically the youth that are no different than the cocky suburban teens, but the muslim teen's cockyness/rebellion seems to be considered "signs of a future terrorist" by some of my own...including family and some fellow Christians...and it seems to irritate me more and more as my tolerance evolves. I've been wanting to bring this up for awhile and this proposed ban on the Arabic language has seemed to slightly push me over the edge. I should add that these people are very approachably if not in black burkas and religion has never seemed to have been a barrier for me in developing these relationships...in fact it barely comes up unless there is pork in the bosnian Chevapi. I have found most muslims I've met to not be these intolerant religious nuts. Just modest people working to get a thin slice of the American Pie just like the rest of us, especially like my polish Great-Grandparents and fellow polocks that also got their start here in this amazing country. So what do you think? Am I naive? Should we welcome these people, initiate the relationship and broaden our horizons....or should we just alienate them, ban Arabic and prepare for the Jihad?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #2 January 16, 2009 I could not disagree with you more. A common language is a strength of our nation. Speaking that common language promotes integration into our country. I am a firm believer in using English only in our schools and government. Multiculturalism must have its limits.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #3 January 16, 2009 Welcome them? Yes, absolutly. English only in schools? Yes, absolutly English only gov offices? For the most part, yes."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #4 January 16, 2009 The primary language in most government is not English ...... it's Bollocks (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #5 January 16, 2009 QuoteWelcome them? Yes, absolutly. English only in schools? Yes, absolutly English only gov offices? For the most part, yes. I agree. One thing I wonder however is why this guy is focusing on Arabic? We do have a much bigger issue in the Latino community don't we?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #6 January 16, 2009 Quote A common language is a strength of our nation. Speaking that common language promotes integration into our country. I agree, afterall I would not have been able to establish relationships with them if they didn't understand english. The problem to me seems that some supporters for the ban understand the need for bilingual classes for those that can't speak english yet. Their only option after that is to give some personal reason of fear or annoyance to support the ban. My Great Grandfather forbid the use of Polish for his family, but that was his choice... Also, how would this be enforced and what would be the punishment. Do they just start expelling/suspend students for speaking Arabic in the Hallways?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #7 January 16, 2009 QuoteWelcome them? Yes, absolutly. English only in schools? Yes, absolutly What about those that can't speak english yet?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #8 January 16, 2009 QuoteAlso, how would this be enforced and what would be the punishment. Do they just start expelling/suspend students for speaking Arabic in the Hallways? No I think we should teach English I do not believe we have the right to prohibit people from speaking any language they wish. To think we can is ..........stupidI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #9 January 16, 2009 QuoteOne thing I wonder however is why this guy is focusing on Arabic? We do have a much bigger issue in the Latino community don't we? This is the point I'm trying to get at...Though there has been an increase in the Arabic population, that population still has had a significant history in this area. It hasn't seemed to have been a problem untill after 9/11 and the war.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #10 January 16, 2009 QuoteQuoteWelcome them? Yes, absolutly. English only in schools? Yes, absolutly What about those that can't speak english yet? THEY get an interpiter"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #11 January 16, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteWelcome them? Yes, absolutly. English only in schools? Yes, absolutly What about those that can't speak english yet? THEY get an interpiter How about those who can't write in english?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #12 January 16, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWelcome them? Yes, absolutly. English only in schools? Yes, absolutly What about those that can't speak english yet? THEY get an interpiter How about those who can't write in english? what about em? They come here, they need to prepare"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #13 January 16, 2009 QuoteQuoteAlso, how would this be enforced and what would be the punishment. Do they just start expelling/suspend students for speaking Arabic in the Hallways? No I think we should teach English I do not believe we have the right to prohibit people from speaking any language they wish. To think we can is ..........stupid I agree, we are talking about public schools and government"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #14 January 16, 2009 Quote What about those that can't speak english yet? You need to speak English in order to become a citizen. Doesn't have to be great English, but it's part of the test.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #15 January 16, 2009 QuoteQuote What about those that can't speak english yet? You need to speak English in order to become a citizen. Doesn't have to be great English, but it's part of the test. The issue has nothing to do with becoming a citizen. It has to do with a fifteen or sixteen year old who doesn't speak english. Is the best plan for them to continue to learn arts an sciences while they learn the new language, or for them to retard their education completely until they learn english and then resume their education. If the child is six or seven I don't think it is as much of an issue. They will learn english quickly and carry on. For adolescents it is a bit trickier. The stigma of being left behind, or not fitting in is a much more salient factor. Many young people will put their head down and work harder, but many will have a harder time adapting. These youths of course are much higher risk for anti-social behavior. Drugs, gangs, and yes, extremist ideologies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #16 January 16, 2009 Quote The issue has nothing to do with becoming a citizen. You're wrong. In the USA, you must pass an English proficiency exam. If you want to live in the USA, you must be able to function with the language. If you don't want to do that, go back to where you came from.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #17 January 16, 2009 >How about those who can't write in english? Well, that's just too bad. It's not the school's job to educate kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #18 January 16, 2009 Quote Well, that's just too bad. It's not the school's job to educate kids. Their focus should be learning the language to begin with.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #19 January 16, 2009 The regulation is absurd. Schools should be able to teach in whatever language works best for their student population. Teachers and principals are the best people to decide that. >"Schools should be all English. If you live in America, you are an American," . . . Reminds me of the old joke. What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual. What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual. What do you call someone who speaks one language? American. >"Not to take anything away from their culture, but only speaking Arabic won't >give them a chance to broaden their horizons." Right. Because the people with the broadest horizons live only in the US, and speak only one language. Those people who travel the world and speak five languages don't know what they're missing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,493 #20 January 16, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Welcome them? Yes, absolutly. English only in schools? Yes, absolutly What about those that can't speak english yet? THEY get an interpiter How about those who can't write in english? what about em? They come here, they need to prepare Class.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #21 January 16, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Welcome them? Yes, absolutly. English only in schools? Yes, absolutly What about those that can't speak english yet? THEY get an interpiter How about those who can't write in english? what about em? They come here, they need to prepare Class. Yep too damn lazy to learn the language dont come crying to someone saying they are treating me bad. Get off your ass and learn the language if you want to live here. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with comanies doing what ever they want to in regards to language either. But where public money is concerned , stop being such a dead assn wimp and learn something. That is CLASS. But I no know you dont know how to ues the word. But then, I would like to see go so some other no english speaking company and tell them they owe you so they should speak and teach in your language. Take video. I want to see Muli-cultural bs along with political correctness all stinks the same. Same as this topic........."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 January 16, 2009 This is being discussed in the focus of ESL education, but the question really should be is the proposal to eliminate any other language, or just Arabic? There is legitimate debate over the ESL question, but I can't see a justification for targeting the Arabic immigrants alone, esp when it seems motivated by the current conflicts in the Middle East. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,994 #23 January 16, 2009 >stop being such a dead assn wimp and learn something. >That is CLASS. But I no know you dont know how to ues the word. Exactly. It takes a real classy person to call a child a "dead assn wimp" because he was not raised speaking english. On the other hand, all those teachers who spend their days teaching english to kids who cannot yet speak it are a bunch BS-teaching, politically correct losers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 January 16, 2009 Quote Reminds me of the old joke. What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual. What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual. What do you call someone who speaks one language? American. Though for the context of this discussion, the answer appears to be Arabic speaking high school students. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #25 January 16, 2009 Quote >stop being such a dead assn wimp and learn something. >That is CLASS. But I no know you dont know how to ues the word. Exactly. It takes a real classy person to call a child a "dead assn wimp" because he was not raised speaking english. On the other hand, all those teachers who spend their days teaching english to kids who cannot yet speak it are a bunch BS-teaching, politically correct losers. There you go and do it again. I did not call anybody a dead ass wimp for being born non-english speaking did I oh great twister of the words. But that is what you do best even though you dont like it when done to you!Twist away sir. Honesty will get you further than this crap however"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
