Schools urged to ban Arabic???

[billvon 2,998]

>Though for the context of this discussion, the answer appears to be
>Arabic speaking high school students.

Uh - you do realize they are talking about banning BILINGUAL education in that school, right? Bilingual means "two languages" - in this case, arabic and english.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

>Though for the context of this discussion, the answer appears to be
>Arabic speaking high school students.

Uh - you do realize they are talking about banning BILINGUAL education in that school, right? Bilingual means "two languages" - in this case, arabic and english.

and you do realize that if they spoke both languages, they won't need bilingual education.

They're being taught in Arabic because their English is not yet sufficient.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Well, that's just too bad. It's not the school's job to educate kids.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Their focus should be learning the language to begin with.

If I upended my life and moved to Argentina... I would hope to bone up on my spanish BEFORE I moved there.

If for some reason I decided to move to China.. it might be a good idea to learn Chinese...

IT seems that recently only in this country are the natives expected to put up with every other language under the sun . Anywhere else I go in the world.. I certainly do not EXPECT someone to speak English. ITs nice when I can find someone that does speak English when I travel aborad but I certainly do not EXPECT it.

[billvon 2,998]

>They're being taught in Arabic because their English is not yet sufficient.

Ah, I think I see the problem.

They're not "being taught in Arabic." They are being taught via something called transitional bilingual education. The purpose of that education is not to "teach them in Arabic" but rather teach them in English as much as possible to hasten their transition to English.

An example would be history. In transitional bilingual education, the dates, names, countries, facts etc are taught in English. When a student has a question about it, they are often answered in the second language if the student does not yet have the language skills to understand the answer in English.

This does two things.

One, it keeps them from falling behind in history, science etc while they learn English. This saves them time and saves the school money (fewer repeated grades.)

Two, they learn English faster than they would if they were just plopped in a classroom that was 100% English - because they are learning in English and understanding what they learn.

The result of transitional bilingual programs are students that do better academically and learn English faster. Most of the controversy comes about from people who think it means "never teaching them English."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

Quote

The issue has nothing to do with becoming a citizen.

You're wrong. In the USA, you must pass an English proficiency exam. If you want to live in the USA, you must be able to function with the language. If you don't want to do that, go back to where you came from.

My point is that when people get to the US they are a long way from their citizenship exam. Yes they have to learn English to prosper, but that does not mean they have to forget their other languages. This is not about whether English will be present, it is about whether Arabic will be prohibited. No one in the article is talking about exclusively Arabic curriculum, they are talking about a bilingual one. These students are being taught English. It is a question of method.
This reminds me of the way we tried to assimilate the natives in Canada fifty years ago. The nuns and priests would beat the children if they uttered a word in 'the Devil's tongue.' The attempt failed to do anything except raise a generation of damaged and bitter people.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

There is legitimate debate over the ESL question, but I can't see a justification for targeting the Arabic immigrants alone,

Agreed.

We are all engines of karma

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

The regulation is absurd.

Schools should be able to teach in whatever language works best for their student population. Teachers and principals are the best people to decide that.

Right. The language that works best for their student population is English. They need to learn to speak the
language that will help them survive in the US.
Teachers already understand that.

In many areas, Latinos with sub-par English language skills
have difficulty finding jobs.

Quote

>"Schools should be all English. If you live in America, you are an American," . . .

Reminds me of the old joke.

What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks one language? American.

So, if they aren't learning English, Arabic is still one language.

Quote

>"Not to take anything away from their culture, but only speaking Arabic won't
>give them a chance to broaden their horizons."

Right. Because the people with the broadest horizons live only in the US, and speak only one language. Those people who travel the world and speak five languages don't know what they're missing.

Somehow, you are distorting this. They can speak and read
non-English languages at home. They will not lose other language skills.

It is a waste and misdirection of resources of the education system.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

Well, that's just too bad. It's not the school's job to educate kids.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Their focus should be learning the language to begin with.

If I upended my life and moved to Argentina... I would hope to bone up on my spanish BEFORE I moved there.

If for some reason I decided to move to China.. it might be a good idea to learn Chinese...

IT seems that recently only in this country are the natives expected to put up with every other language under the sun . Anywhere else I go in the world.. I certainly do not EXPECT someone to speak English. ITs nice when I can find someone that does speak English when I travel aborad but I certainly do not EXPECT it.

Just after VN, there were many refugees arriving in the US.
In my calc class, a student grades had arrived from VN about a year earlier. He had the second best average.

He told me that it is because he had made an aggressive effort
to learn the language. Some members of his family had not
and were struggling.

This just seems to be common sense.

[billvon 2,998]

> The language that works best for their student population is English.
>They need to learn to speak the language that will help them survive
>in the US.

Yes. And transitional bilingual education gets them speaking english fastest.

>So, if they aren't learning English, Arabic is still one language.

No one is suggesting they learn only Arabic.

>They can speak and read non-English languages at home.

As they can learn English at home. But that's sort of beside the point.

>It is a waste and misdirection of resources of the education system.

Teaching students history, math, science and english as rapidly as possible is a "waste of the resources of the education system?" It is the PURPOSE of the education system.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

This reminds me of the way we tried to assimilate the natives in Canada fifty years ago. The nuns and priests would beat the children if they uttered a word in 'the Devil's tongue.' The attempt failed to do anything except raise a generation of damaged and bitter people.

I'm presuming that was the parochial school experience. What did they do in the Canadian public schools?

[mnealtx 0]

"Press 2 for English"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,500]

Quote

That is CLASS. But I no know you dont know how to ues the word.

Stop, you're killing me here!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Yes. And transitional bilingual education gets them speaking english fastest.

They sold that program in Miami.
A weekend there will tell you how well it worked.

There is the "sales demo" and the actual implementation.

Nobody tried to learned or taught English.
Instead of assimilating into US culture,
it is used as an intentional segregation plan.

I'm surprised Calif isn't like that by now.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Quote

Welcome them? Yes, absolutly.

English only in schools?

Yes, absolutly

English only gov offices?

For the most part, yes.

I agree.

One thing I wonder however is why this guy is focusing on Arabic? We do have a much bigger issue in the Latino community don't we?

Ditto on the agree.....

I'm going to agree with you on the Spanish being a larger problem as well.

I'll suggest that the reason he's focusing on Arabic is because he might be a racist fuck?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I'm surprised Calif isn't like that by now.

Hang on a minute, we're out to lunch. We'll be back shortly, to set the trend in "fuck-up'ed-ness".

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

I'm surprised Calif isn't like that by now.

Hang on a minute, we're out to lunch. We'll be back shortly, to set the trend in "fuck-up'ed-ness".

Try to ask for directions in Miami, or just order a hamburger.

Politicians, with a vested interest in the Latino vote, do not want Americans. They want Latino-Americans.

First step, get funding for Spanish-speaker programs, but make sure that they aren't moving them away from speaking Spanish-only.
Second step, demand that a job qualification is being bi-lingual, even if it is not necessary, to disqualify English-only speakers.

It is just a racist economic program.

In Florida, it has worked well. They are trying to
implement the same programs in Orlando right now.

I am surprised that Calif is not doing the same thing.

[Coreece 190]

Here is the updated article:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090116/SCHOOLS/901160371/1006/rss01

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[ravenhk 0]

I think that it is rude to carry a conversation in a differnet language and most people that do this are aware that it is rude, but I also think that everyone that is suppose to be involved in the conversation can speak the language and if it is a supposed private conversation they should have the freedom to also do that, for example if I was sitting at a table having carriying on with one other person I should have the option to talk in any language that I want.

pain is weakness leaving the body

[tbrown 26]

Pass the Freedom Fries, Liberty Cabbage, and Gallo. Does this ban include banning Arabic numerals ? The slackers who hate math class will be overjoyed.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Liberty Cabbage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na1DseY5T-M

Quote

Does this ban include banning Arabic numerals ? The slackers who hate math class will be overjoyed.

There will be no ban this time around so the slackers are just gonna have to suck it up...

But stayed tuned; I believe this week they are moving forward with their case to ban burkas....we can't have a bunch of masked terrorists running around you know.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

Yes. And transitional bilingual education gets them speaking english fastest.

The key phrase here is transitional. As long as that's the case, it's entirely reasonable, IMO.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

"Press 2 for English"

That should go. Likewise, all government documents should be in English, and English only.

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 2,998]

>That should go.

I think businesses should do business in whatever language they like.

>Likewise, all government documents should be in English, and English only.

Why? The fear that "the foreigners will take over" has been around since the time of Benjamin Franklin (except back then the fear was the Germans.) We've had foreign language publications since then. We're not all speaking German, or Italian, or Gaelic yet.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

I think businesses should do business in whatever language they like.

At this point in time, billvon, you should know that I consider myself to be American, and a patriot to boot. Our culture is worth preserving. Why do so many people want to move here? In moving here, you adopt our ways, not your old country's ways. If you want to keep your old country's ways, stay in that country. Multiculturalism must have its limits.

Quote

>Likewise, all government documents should be in English, and English only.

Why?

It's part of being a citizen.

We are all engines of karma

[billvon 2,998]

>At this point in time, billvon, you should know that I consider myself to be
>American, and a patriot to boot.

Good for you!

>Our culture is worth preserving.

I agree!

On a good weekend I can go to Perris and jump from a Canadian aircraft with a bunch of Brits and a few Germans. Two of those Germans are on one of the best 4 way teams in the US - and speak German when they're together.

Afterwards we'll go to a Mexican place and get a margarita, or perhaps to a brewery and get a hefeweizen. Or stop at a Thai place for takeout. They speak Spanish at the Thai place, but that's fine with me.

That's what our culture is. It's a mix of all the other cultures of the world with our own stamp on it. Trying to exclude other cultures would be like trying to make soup better by excluding all the ingredients.

>Why do so many people want to move here?

Because we're free to do what we like here. And that includes worship in whatever church we choose, work where we choose, move where we choose, speak whatever language we choose and raise our kids as we choose.

>In moving here, you adopt our ways, not your old country's ways.

We are who we are because people have done both. I'm glad there's an Irish pub down the street, a US brewery up the road and a taco stand on the corner. That, to me, is much, much better than a 100% american array of McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chickens and Dunkin Donuts.