shropshire 0 #1 January 26, 2009 Irrespective of rights & wrongs... innocent people need help... clicky (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #2 January 26, 2009 QuoteIrrespective of rights & wrongs... innocent people need help... clicky Looks like they're jeopardizing their impartiality by not "jeopardizing their impartiality". Bombs sell more papers than charity events apparently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #3 January 26, 2009 The video has even been removed from youtube as well. Interesting but not surprising at all. Most Western countries have not seen or heard of the horrors the IDF is responsible for.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #4 January 26, 2009 And they're off! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #5 January 26, 2009 Quote And they're off! There's not really that much more to say unless folks want to get into a discussion about what the media's actual bia$ is towards. Bombs and sex will always win out in the ratings game. I suppose you could argue about lobbyist influence but that one's hard to quantify so it's a difficult proof. What some would call "very influential" others will reply "nuh uhhhh". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #6 January 26, 2009 Actually, this time I have to say that the actions of the IDF and/or Hamas are of no importance what so ever to this subject.......... it's purely and simply about the humanitarian aid and support needed for the innocent victims. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #7 January 26, 2009 How come wealthy Arab nations don't step forward and help them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #8 January 26, 2009 Most likely because for all their noise they don't give a shit about the Palestinians.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #9 January 26, 2009 QuoteHow come wealthy Arab nations don't step forward and help them? To be fair, we don't know that they haven't. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #10 January 26, 2009 They have given them more rockets and motars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 January 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteHow come wealthy Arab nations don't step forward and help them? To be fair, we don't know that they haven't. If they had, then why are they all bitching about how they need help? And why do they think that England and America should give it to them, if "their own kind" won't even bother? QuoteThey have given them more rockets and motars. Maybe they should throw in some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches while they're at it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #12 January 27, 2009 QuoteTheir own kind What, people ? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #13 January 27, 2009 QuoteThe video has even been removed from youtube as well. Interesting but not surprising at all. Most Western countries have not seen or heard of the horrors the IDF is responsible for. The Mystery Dead of Gaza January 25, 2009: Palestinians have found, in their decades of fighting Israel, that well crafted lies can be an effective weapon. The recent 22 day battle in Gaza, between Hamas and Israel, ended with the Palestinians claiming they had lost 1,300 dead, and the Israelis admitting to 13 (including four soldiers from friendly fire.) Now, as reporters get into Gaza, and start asking questions, the Palestinian death toll is starting to shrink. Medical personnel at the Palestinian hospitals say that there appeared to be no more than about 500 dead, and most of them were young males (guys of fighting age). Civilian dead appear to have been no more than a hundred or so. Gaza is not the first time this has happened. Take the 2002 battle in Jenin, in the West Bank. Jenin was a refugee camp that had been taken over by five terrorist groups (including Hamas) and used as a base for launching over a hundred attacks on Israelis (mostly civilians.) The fighting went on for nine days, and even before it was over (with a crushing defeat for the terrorists) it was being claimed that the Israelis had massacred over a thousand Arab civilians. But once a detailed investigation was conducted, outside experts (most of them pro-Arab) concluded that only 53 Arabs were killed (only five could be conclusively proven to be civilians), and 23 Israelis (who went to extraordinary lengths to avoid civilian casualties). The rest were armed Palestinians trying to kill Israelis. Some 200 Arab terrorists also surrendered, and a few escaped the camp. When the Palestinians first made their claims of an Israeli massacre, the generally anti-Israeli Western media (especially in Europe, where anti-Semitism was awakening from its post-World War II slumber) accepted the claims and pumped out stories of the alleged Israeli barbarity. The Palestinians provided photo ops and trained witnesses to the alleged atrocities. Most Western media took all this at face value. Same thing happened recently in Gaza, although there were a few more Western, and Moslem, journalists who were skeptical. But they had to keep it down, as the Palestinian propaganda was still ascendant. Back in 2002, it wasn't long before the edifice of lies began to crumble. Aerial photos of Jenin showed the area where the fighting took place was very small area. Efforts to identify victims kept coming up with only a few dozen dead. Some of more strident anti-Israeli groups insisted that this was all a clever Israeli cover-up, and that hundreds of dead Arabs were secretly carted away and disposed of. But no one could find anyone who knew any of these mystery dead. The same thing is happening in Gaza. And why wouldn't it. ------------------------------------------- Even the Arabs aren't buying Palestinian bullshit anymore. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #14 January 27, 2009 QuoteHow come wealthy Arab nations don't step forward and help them? They are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #15 January 27, 2009 Quote If they had, then why are they all bitching about how they need help? This might be one reason. Aid Groups Frustrated At Lack Of Gaza Access International aid agencies trying to get supplies and personnel from Israel into the Gaza Strip are increasingly frustrated and angry. Israel eased its blockade of Gaza on Thursday, opening the border, but only under pressure and only to a few organizations. Aid organizations say they need to get into Gaza to assess needs and relieve colleagues who are exhausted after the three-week Israeli offensive. But Mike Baily of Oxfam International says for six days since the cease-fire, the Israeli government has given them the runaround. "We've had every reason under the sun given to us for not going in … security, not the right day, that is was closed for holiday, that the right people were not available, that we would hear tomorrow," he says. In addition to supervising deliveries of items like food, medicine and plastic sheeting, Oxfam urgently needs to help Gazan farmers restore their destroyed fields, Baily says, and clear them of unexploded ordinance. "If we don't plant crops now, we won't harvest in three, four months time, and the one and a half million people of Gaza will be completely dependent on food aid … coming in from outside," he says. Evonne Frederickson with Sweden's Palestinian Solidarity Association has been trying to get mental health experts and doctors into Gaza. She says Israeli policy toward aid agencies has been capricious for a long time. "Sometimes you get in, sometimes you don't, so they are playing with those who are working with the aid to Gaza," she says. Cassandra Nelson of Mercy Corps says she has called Israeli authorities every day since the cease-fire last weekend. "We are pressing and pressing on all sides of this argument but have not gotten any clear or logical response … so we can't respond and have a proper dialogue," she says. "We are simply told 'no, no humanitarian aid workers.'" Several aid organizations finally decided to go to the border Thursday in a convoy accompanied by the press, to publicize the blockade. After several hours, some aid representatives were let through. But Nelson says there was no explanation for who got in and who was denied access. Major players like Save the Children were turned away. And, Nelson says, there are no guarantees about the future. "This is going to be over a billion-dollar reconstruction project for Gaza, and it simply can't be run by people sitting around and waiting every day for hours at a border point wondering if their name is on a list or not on a list," she says. "There need to be proper procedures." U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes says Israel has promised cooperation, but he is pushing for clarification. "We need to see that demonstrated in practice so that they know they will not only get in today but tomorrow," he says. Holmes also called on Israel yet again to open more crossing points for supplies. He says Gaza desperately needs generators and construction materials — and help to repair damaged sewage lines. "The local water authorities raised with us the prospect of not just the immediate health risks but the damage that could be done to the aquifers by the accumulation of such large quantities of raw sewage seeping down into the aquifers," he says. "We're in a time-critical situation." Israel has blocked all construction materials from reaching Gaza since Hamas took control of the territory 19 months ago. Holmes has tried, so far unsuccessfully, to persuade Israel that international aid will not be diverted to Hamas. Asked about the continued limits on aid, Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev would not directly address the issue of aid workers. And he gave no promises that the borders would be open for anything more than immediate aid any time soon. "We will be part of [the] reconstruction effort but one that helps the people of Gaza, but not one that helps Hamas," he says. But with 4,000 homes destroyed and another 17,000 badly damaged, the U.N. and other aid organizations say the civilians of Gaza cannot afford to wait for a regime change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #16 January 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteHow come wealthy Arab nations don't step forward and help them? They are That's a nice promise, if he goes through with it. But then there's that 2nd paragraph too, below. Quote: The king said his country's $1 billion donation for Gaza would go to a proposed fund Arabs are setting up to rebuild the seaside territory. But it remains to be seen whether Arab expressions of sympathy for the citizens of Gaza translate into actual funds to rebuild the city. Arabs have often criticized Israel for the plight of Palestinians, but pledges of financial support have not always materialized. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #17 January 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteIf they had, then why are they all bitching about how they need help? International aid agencies trying to get supplies and personnel from Israel into the Gaza Strip are increasingly frustrated and angry. Israel eased its blockade of Gaza on Thursday, opening the border, but only under pressure and only to a few organizations... All the Gaza lovers seem to conveniently forget that Gaza shares a border with Egypt. So why don't they bring in the resupply from Egypt? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #18 January 27, 2009 Believe it or not, No matter what other countries do if they care or not, it does not justify war crimes like not allowing the Red Cross to enter to help wounded children in Zaytoon. Even if the whole Arab world says they don’t care it still does not justify atrocities committed by the IDF. To think that some how it would or should is by far the most retarded logic that keeps on coming up. Not unexpected however.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #19 January 27, 2009 Quote All the Gazahuman rights lovers seem to conveniently forget that Gaza shares a border with Egypt. So why don't they bring in the resupply from Egypt? Egypt claims that it would violate the 2005 US brokered agreement between Egypt, Israel, the EU and the Palestinian Authority. Supposedly the terms were that EU and PA observers need to be present as monitors to the Rafah crossing. They're not there so Egypt claims that if they ordered the opening of the border, that in addition to violating of the terms of the agreement, then they would be sanctifying a Hamas/PA division. Egypt did however, leave the border open for a couple of weeks after it was breached about a year ago, in order to allow aid into Gaza. It sounds like there needs to be some new terms brokered to Egypts agreement. Hopefully Mitchell will address that one shortly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #20 January 27, 2009 QuoteEgypt claims that it would violate the 2005 US brokered agreement between Egypt, Israel, the EU and the Palestinian Authority. Supposedly the terms were that EU and PA observers need to be present as monitors to the Rafah crossing. They're not there... How come the PA observers aren't there? They're the ones wanting the aid, so they should put the observers there to get it in. So it sounds like they are at least partially to blame for their own closed border. If the PA were to supply the required observers, then that would leave just the vaunted EU to blame. Not America, not Israel. So why isn't the EU doing their part? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #21 January 27, 2009 Quote How come the PA observers aren't there? They're the ones wanting the aid, so they should put the observers there to get it in. So it sounds like they are at least partially to blame for their own closed border. If the PA were to supply the required observers, then that would leave just the vaunted EU to blame. Not America, not Israel. So why isn't the EU doing their part? I suppose it's because the EU and Fatah consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization and they want to continue to marginalize Hamas, hoping that there will be a public backlash that goes in favor of the PA. It isn't happening that way. Hamas will have to be included in the solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #22 January 27, 2009 QuoteJanuary 25, 2009: Palestinians have found, in their decades of fighting Israel, that well crafted lies can be an effective weapon. The recent 22 day battle in Gaza, between Hamas and Israel, ended with the Palestinians claiming they had lost 1,300 dead, and the Israelis admitting to 13 (including four soldiers from friendly fire.) Now, as reporters get into Gaza, and start asking questions, the Palestinian death toll is starting to shrink. Medical personnel at the Palestinian hospitals say that there appeared to be no more than about 500 dead, and most of them were young males (guys of fighting age). Civilian dead appear to have been no more than a hundred or so. Gaza is not the first time this has happened. Take the 2002 battle in Jenin, in the West Bank. Jenin was a refugee camp that had been taken over by five terrorist groups (including Hamas) and used as a base for launching over a hundred attacks on Israelis (mostly civilians.) The fighting went on for nine days, and even before it was over (with a crushing defeat for the terrorists) it was being claimed that the Israelis had massacred over a thousand Arab civilians. But once a detailed investigation was conducted, outside experts (most of them pro-Arab) concluded that only 53 Arabs were killed (only five could be conclusively proven to be civilians), and 23 Israelis (who went to extraordinary lengths to avoid civilian casualties). The rest were armed Palestinians trying to kill Israelis. Some 200 Arab terrorists also surrendered, and a few escaped the camp. When the Palestinians first made their claims of an Israeli massacre, the generally anti-Israeli Western media (especially in Europe, where anti-Semitism was awakening from its post-World War II slumber) accepted the claims and pumped out stories of the alleged Israeli barbarity. The Palestinians provided photo ops and trained witnesses to the alleged atrocities. Most Western media took all this at face value. Same thing happened recently in Gaza, although there were a few more Western, and Moslem, journalists who were skeptical. But they had to keep it down, as the Palestinian propaganda was still ascendant. Back in 2002, it wasn't long before the edifice of lies began to crumble. Aerial photos of Jenin showed the area where the fighting took place was very small area. Efforts to identify victims kept coming up with only a few dozen dead. Some of more strident anti-Israeli groups insisted that this was all a clever Israeli cover-up, and that hundreds of dead Arabs were secretly carted away and disposed of. But no one could find anyone who knew any of these mystery dead. The same thing is happening in Gaza. And why wouldn't it. this story happens pretty much every time. not suprising if it turns out to be the same this time. the problem is that by the time the truth is out, the damage is already done and nobody remembers that it was a lie, people still remember Jenin as the Jenin Masacare, even though it was proven to be a complete lie. same goes for the A-dora kid that became a symbol of how Israel shoots kids. a french TV analysis later proved that there is no way the kid was hit by Israeli fire and that the whole scene was staged by the local journalist (which of course, was palestinian). it's sad that the media so easily accepts these lies since a "humanitarian crisis" makes a better headline... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #23 January 27, 2009 but the IDF is not putting bombs on kids and and blowing them up are they? If shite heads in mexico or canada was shooting rockets into the US. I'd say have at them. If your close friends in hamas were not hiding in schools, housing areas like cowards that they are making the areas targets. Clean up your own house before looking at others. I have no respect for hamas or anyone who supports them. You want to beg for aid, use some of the money they get from iran for making bombs. Have hamas run out of gaza and I may think about aid. Until then it's like giving money to a crackhead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #24 January 28, 2009 QuoteIrrespective of rights & wrongs... innocent people need help... clicky Then let Hamas help them. Hamas claims to be a charitable organization, though they only seem to give away free rockets to their Israeli neighbors. Maybe if Hamas spent a little more time, money and energy on building a state they wouldn't need to pull this "boo-hoo" bullshit about the destruction they bring on their own people. Hurrah for the BBC showing some backbone ! Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #25 January 28, 2009 QuoteHurrah for the BBC showing some backbone So your for censorship when it is convenient?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
