Amazon 7 #76 February 2, 2009 These kind of stories make you think that spaying and neutering of stupid animals who can do nothing but eat, fuck and have babies....would be good for the planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #77 February 3, 2009 QuoteWhat if they fail the class? Have poor attendance? How on earth do you think mandatory birth control should be policed? we don't need manditory birth control, just offer to pay people to be sterilized. it may not have prevented this case, but the net effect would be positive. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #78 February 3, 2009 Quote>Now I agree. OK. Who decides if she can afford them? The government? How much would you have to make for the government to allow you to have 3 kids? obviously you can't legislate numbers of children or set criteria for having children, but in this case, the doctor should never have done this. i certainly don't take the idea of sueing doctors lightly, but maybe in the case the people of california could sue the doctor for any costs incurred by the state because of this. he went way outside the standard of practice here, and the people of a broke state have to foot the bill. maybe he should have to pay some sort of child support. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #79 February 3, 2009 >but maybe in the case the people of california could sue the doctor for >any costs incurred by the state because of this. If you think about it for a minute, you really don't want doctors sued because of the long term monetary costs of their actions. If you do, consider the following: -doctors who are sued because they didn't force a pregnant woman to take prenatal vitamins -doctors who are sued because they didn't push for abortion of a Down syndrome child or a child with spina bifida. -doctors sued because they save someone's life, but the person is then significantly impaired and requires state support. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,453 #80 February 3, 2009 Quotejust offer to pay people to be sterilizedYa know, there are worse ideas... Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #81 February 3, 2009 very good points. you would have to tread very lightly. i'm just trying to come up with some sort of check (as in checks and balances, not paycheck) without legislating it. that's one of the reasons we have the right to sue, right? the bottom line is, this wasn't a decision made in the heat of a moment, it was made with a lot of time to think about it by someone who should have known better. and by the way, doctors have been sued and lost for sillier shit than you just mentioned. i guess i have to revert back to my other idea. i believe it was brought up several years ago, and the left threw a tizzy fit over it saying it was nothing but a plan to reduce the population of blacks or something like that. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #82 February 3, 2009 QuoteQuotejust offer to pay people to be sterilizedYa know, there are worse ideas... Wendy W. Perhaps, but I really fail to see how offering to pay for sterilization would tempt someone who went in for fertility treatments after 6 kids...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllisonH 0 #83 February 3, 2009 Quote Quote Quote just offer to pay people to be sterilized Ya know, there are worse ideas... Wendy W. Perhaps, but I really fail to see how offering to pay for sterilization would tempt someone who went in for fertility treatments after 6 kids... It probably wouldn't tempt her, but it wouldn't take me long to figure out how much tunnel time that would buy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,453 #84 February 3, 2009 Maybe not that one, but it would tempt a whole lot of short-term thinkers, male and female... Maybe we limit the age range (i.e. I'm not sure there's a whole lot of future in paying for the sterilization of a woman in her 50's). Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #85 February 3, 2009 Quote but in this case, the doctor should never have done this. i certainly don't take the idea of sueing doctors lightly, but maybe in the case the people of california could sue the doctor for any costs incurred by the state because of this. I don't think you can sue for the potential damages. OTOH, it would seem like an obvious breach of medical ethics. If it's not codified as such already, it should be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #86 February 3, 2009 >OTOH, it would seem like an obvious breach of medical ethics. Doctors advocate for their patients, not for themselves or for a social program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #87 February 3, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuotejust offer to pay people to be sterilizedYa know, there are worse ideas... Wendy W. Perhaps, but I really fail to see how offering to pay for sterilization would tempt someone who went in for fertility treatments after 6 kids... it wouldn't, but overall it would reduce the number of kids born to parents that couldn't pay for them. in the interest of full disclosure, while i wasn't payed to get sterilized, i was sterilized on the taxpayer's dime, and in the long run it will save tax dollars. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #88 February 3, 2009 Quote>OTOH, it would seem like an obvious breach of medical ethics. Doctors advocate for their patients, not for themselves or for a social program. "Do no harm." The 8 fetuses are his patients too. Given the history (not good) for that many in the womb at once, it's on par with the doctors that use forceps to yank out babies at the stroke on midnight on New Years so that parent can get the goodies for having the first born of the year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #89 February 3, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuotejust offer to pay people to be sterilizedYa know, there are worse ideas... Wendy W. Perhaps, but I really fail to see how offering to pay for sterilization would tempt someone who went in for fertility treatments after 6 kids... Yup... you just cain't fix stupid. At some point there really does need to be tax incentives to not have children. If you want a couple children per couple.... or put it this way... you each get tax credits for one per person.. after that NONE Over population is going to kill all of us in the long run... and the sooner people realize that we can never feed the entire world the better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #90 February 3, 2009 Quote Maybe we limit the age range (i.e. I'm not sure there's a whole lot of future in paying for the sterilization of a woman in her 50's). Mother Natrue seems to take care of that on her own...Then again.. you have some women in the last few years in their 50's having children with help from doctors and hormonal treatments. Personally I do not think that is the best choice for the children... growing up with very old parents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #91 February 3, 2009 Quote[ Over population is going to kill all of us in the long run... and the sooner people realize that we can never feed the entire world the better. overpopulation is something that can not be stopped, so who cares if we realize it or not? some day the sun will get really big and engulf the earth too, but i'm not going to lose any sleep over it. i'll be dead before either one happens. it really doesn't make a difference if its 1, 2, or 1000 generations after i'm gone. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #92 February 3, 2009 Quote Quote [ Over population is going to kill all of us in the long run... and the sooner people realize that we can never feed the entire world the better. overpopulation is something that can not be stopped, so who cares if we realize it or not? some day the sun will get really big and engulf the earth too, but i'm not going to lose any sleep over it. i'll be dead before either one happens. it really doesn't make a difference if its 1, 2, or 1000 generations after i'm gone. How unselfish of you. I am quite sure your children or nephews and nieces or friends' children or grandchildren truly appreciate that attitude. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #93 February 3, 2009 so i'm selfish because i'm not concerned with something that will happen after i'm long gone and i can't stop? i don't get that logic. there will come a time when humans no longer exist in this universe and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. why am i a bad guy for not worrying about how many generations come between my death and that event? jeez, some people need to get a better grip on just how insignificant humans are in the big picture. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #94 February 4, 2009 Quote overpopulation is something that can not be stopped, so who cares if we realize it or not? some day the sun will get really big and engulf the earth too, but i'm not going to lose any sleep over it. i'll be dead before either one happens. it really doesn't make a difference if its 1, 2, or 1000 generations after i'm gone. Of course it can be stopped. China has successfully arrested their growth. Japan and most of Europe is at flat or negative growth. The US would be essentially flat if immigration were subtracted. Birth rates decline with education and wealth. If everyone simple aimed to have no more than 2 children, it would do the job (the occasional extra would be matched by the bachelor/spinster/darwin winners not having any). Our quality of life, and particularly for those in the latter half of this century, will be affected by the degree to which the population rises. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #95 February 4, 2009 Quote China has successfully arrested their growth. Ironic choice of verb. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #96 February 4, 2009 QuoteQuote China has successfully arrested their growth. Ironic choice of verb. It certainly wasn't pretty, and it's having some funny effects now (spoiled offspring, much like here), but the alternative of doing nothing would have been pretty bad as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #97 February 4, 2009 maybe i'm wrong, but i don't foresee the earth's population leveling off. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #98 February 4, 2009 >but i don't foresee the earth's population leveling off. It will one way or the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #99 February 4, 2009 Quoteso i'm selfish because i'm not concerned with something that will happen after i'm long gone and i can't stop? i don't get that logic. there will come a time when humans no longer exist in this universe and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. why am i a bad guy for not worrying about how many generations come between my death and that event? jeez, some people need to get a better grip on just how insignificant humans are in the big picture. um, yes? Basically you said "fuck my kids or their kids, who the hell cares if they can breathe or have food to eat! it doesn't matter, as long as *I'm" good!" By the standard definition of the term, that's, um, pretty selfish. And we CAN stop it...but people with attitudes like yours are the reason we never even try.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #100 February 4, 2009 QuoteYou should consider mortality rates during the times of some of your examples. That, and the fact that until the fairly recent past kids were an asset for most anybody. Now, at least in most affluent nations, they are considered a liability, financially." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
