ryoder 1,590
Quote
Some say the world will end a certain way. Some say that will happen in 2012.
I can't tell you when, but I hear there is a great restaurant there.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.
Andy9o8 2
>>Forget science for a minute. I want to know your emotional reactions to a couple of questions.
>>Do you believe in fate?
No. I don't believe in the supernatural, and "fate" is supernatural.
>>Is the future immutable or changeable? Clearly the past is unchangeable. Do you believe we're traveling along an inevitable and single line through time or one that infinitely branches in front of us?
Infinite variables; infinite possibilities.
>>Some say the world will end a certain way. Some say that will happen in 2012.
Aside from reasonable, evidence-based scientific predictions, my emotional reaction is that people like that are morons.
>>If you thought the ultimate future of the planet was heading down a certain path, toward ultimate destruction in 2012, then how would that reshape your thoughts about your life and the rest of the people on the planet?
Attributing cosmic, supernatural significance to man-made, and somewhat arbitrary, metrics of measuring time is just plain stupid.
That being said, if I knew my personal days were numbered - i.e., assuming I was, say, terminally ill and not a condemned prisoner, I guess I'd try to cram as many as many as-yet un-experienced experiences into my remaining time as I could. Hm.. maybe look up a couple of old girlfriends.
>>Those will also tell me something about how those people think about questions like these.
Aside from "what would I do if I found out I was terminally ill," I don't really think about it.
>>Do you believe in fate?
No. I don't believe in the supernatural, and "fate" is supernatural.
>>Is the future immutable or changeable? Clearly the past is unchangeable. Do you believe we're traveling along an inevitable and single line through time or one that infinitely branches in front of us?
Infinite variables; infinite possibilities.
>>Some say the world will end a certain way. Some say that will happen in 2012.
Aside from reasonable, evidence-based scientific predictions, my emotional reaction is that people like that are morons.
>>If you thought the ultimate future of the planet was heading down a certain path, toward ultimate destruction in 2012, then how would that reshape your thoughts about your life and the rest of the people on the planet?
Attributing cosmic, supernatural significance to man-made, and somewhat arbitrary, metrics of measuring time is just plain stupid.
That being said, if I knew my personal days were numbered - i.e., assuming I was, say, terminally ill and not a condemned prisoner, I guess I'd try to cram as many as many as-yet un-experienced experiences into my remaining time as I could. Hm.. maybe look up a couple of old girlfriends.
>>Those will also tell me something about how those people think about questions like these.
Aside from "what would I do if I found out I was terminally ill," I don't really think about it.
JohnRich 4
Do you believe in fate? No.
Is the future immutable or changeable? Changeable.
Do you believe we're traveling along an inevitable and single line through time or one that infinitely branches in front of us? See above.
If you thought the ultimate future of the planet was heading down a certain path, toward ultimate destruction in 2012, then how would that reshape your thoughts about your life and the rest of the people on the planet?
If it was known with absolute certainty that the world would end in 2012, I'd go get my kids and grandkids and a motor home, and take them on one hell of a road trip for the next three years.
But such things can't be known with certainty. So I guess I'll have to continue to work for a living, and see them only occasionally.
And no matter how bleak the future might seem, humans always have hope that things will work out better. So most of them won't lead their lives expecting them to end in 2012.
Is the future immutable or changeable? Changeable.
Do you believe we're traveling along an inevitable and single line through time or one that infinitely branches in front of us? See above.
If you thought the ultimate future of the planet was heading down a certain path, toward ultimate destruction in 2012, then how would that reshape your thoughts about your life and the rest of the people on the planet?
If it was known with absolute certainty that the world would end in 2012, I'd go get my kids and grandkids and a motor home, and take them on one hell of a road trip for the next three years.
But such things can't be known with certainty. So I guess I'll have to continue to work for a living, and see them only occasionally.
And no matter how bleak the future might seem, humans always have hope that things will work out better. So most of them won't lead their lives expecting them to end in 2012.
JerryBaumchen 1,362
Hi Paul,
For this I will refer you to a really great book that I read about 4 yrs ago:
THE LIFE & DEATH OF PLANET EARTH
by Ward & Brownlee
I thought it was going to be boring but once I got started it was a real page-turner.
JerryBaumchen
PS) And for us that like to burn fossil fuels for fun & games I would refer you to:
THE LONG EMERGENCY
by Kunstler
QuoteAnd what about that "end of the world" question?
For this I will refer you to a really great book that I read about 4 yrs ago:
THE LIFE & DEATH OF PLANET EARTH
by Ward & Brownlee
I thought it was going to be boring but once I got started it was a real page-turner.
JerryBaumchen
PS) And for us that like to burn fossil fuels for fun & games I would refer you to:
THE LONG EMERGENCY
by Kunstler
quade 4
I'm curious.
A number of people have made comments that they think that the future is "Infinite variables; infinite possibilities" but how would it even be vaguely possible to know the difference between that and a fixed and predetermined timeline; fate?
Clearly everything that has happened in the past is fixed and immutable. There simply is no way to go back and change any of it. Why should we think the future is any different? Because we think (or would like to think) we have freewill? How would we know the difference between freewill and simply doing exactly what is scripted for us to do by the timeline?
Oh, just in case anyone thinks I'm going nuts, this is all a bit of research I'm doing for a fiction story. I just wanna hear some real people's views on the subject which is why I'm asking about your emotional responses to the subject and not scientific ones.
A number of people have made comments that they think that the future is "Infinite variables; infinite possibilities" but how would it even be vaguely possible to know the difference between that and a fixed and predetermined timeline; fate?
Clearly everything that has happened in the past is fixed and immutable. There simply is no way to go back and change any of it. Why should we think the future is any different? Because we think (or would like to think) we have freewill? How would we know the difference between freewill and simply doing exactly what is scripted for us to do by the timeline?
Oh, just in case anyone thinks I'm going nuts, this is all a bit of research I'm doing for a fiction story. I just wanna hear some real people's views on the subject which is why I'm asking about your emotional responses to the subject and not scientific ones.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
wmw999 2,444
Emotionally speaking, a piece of me thinks that there is an immutable future, because in the future, there will have been an immutable past.
But that future doesn't exist yet. It's like the dinner that you're thinking about when you open the refrigerator door to see what's in there. Is it dinner before you've thought of it? All the food in the fridge is in your control, but you haven't made the choices that make it into dinner yet.
I think that thinking about time as a dimension is something that we don't do as well, as people. But a space isn't a space without a couple of dimensions (i.e. length and breadth) defining them. That space exists without the lines, but it's not a defined space. The events defined by time don't exist without the choices we made.
And I left religion out entirely 
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
Andy9o8 2
QuoteA number of people have made comments that they think that the future is "Infinite variables; infinite possibilities" but how would it even be vaguely possible to know the difference between that and a fixed and predetermined timeline; fate?
I'd argue that we know (or at least conclude) it by virtue of our intellect and ability to analyze abstractions and engage in extrapolations of fact through the use of reason and logic.
Broke 0
QuoteAnd what about that "end of the world" question?
The world will end when it ends and not a moment before that. I think the 2012 thing is hogwash.
I also believe that I have control over the future of my life. However if you want to get all deep and stuff being self driven could be a design of fate in which we think we have our own fates in our hands, but it really isn't.
Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192
JackC 0
QuoteHow would we know the difference between freewill and simply doing exactly what is scripted for us to do by the timeline?
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck. If freewill doesn't exist, then the timeline does a pretty good job of fooling you into thinking that it does.
But here's an idea. In the same way that the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics says that the act of measurement causes a particle's wavefunction to "collapse" to the value defined by the measurement, maybe the past is the equivalent of a collapsed wavefunction which used to described the present. Simply by being here you make the "measurement" which collapses the infinite possibilities of the present into the fixed and immutable past. So if no one is there to measure the present, you'd have to wonder if the past isn't immutable at all but actually still has all of it's infinite possibilities? Or something.
cocheese 0
The density of our destiny is like a black hole.
JohnRich 4
QuoteA number of people have made comments that they think that the future is "Infinite variables; infinite possibilities" but how would it even be vaguely possible to know the difference between that and a fixed and predetermined timeline; fate?
Clearly everything that has happened in the past is fixed and immutable. There simply is no way to go back and change any of it. Why should we think the future is any different? Because we think (or would like to think) we have freewill? How would we know the difference between freewill and simply doing exactly what is scripted for us to do by the timeline?
The history of the past was shaped by human decisions. And the future will be shaped by human decisions also.
Having said that, I can imagine things beyond human control. For example, if the earth was hurtling towards the sun, growing closer every year, with temperatures rising dramatically, and world scientists agreeing upon the measurements and rate. Then indeed, the end of human life on earth could be totally predictable.
As for who is doing this "scripting" for the future, I suppose some god could be doing that, just toying with the human race for his own amusement. But I think even the religious people believe that god gave humans free will to determine their own destiny.
But barring such cataclysmic events, mostly we're just in charge of our own destiny. And if we don't screw it all up with nuclear war, we can all live long, healthy lives.
There have been plenty of Hollywood movies already featuring people trying to change a predestined future outcome. Nothing new there.
And thanks for starting an actual intellectual thread that makes people think. What a refreshing change from the usual stuff here.
http://www.ruinedeye.com/cd/time1.htm
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero
Sorry Bill, where YOU'RE going... it's all Italian Opera or Hip Hop!
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