What good have the Vatican done for the people?

[Coreece 190]

I don't know...the world would be a very different place indeed if nobody had the need to tell us what not to do...

It's our fault.

We treat God as our enemy...very foolish...I should know.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,489]

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The whole point of the commandments is to show us that we cannot stick to basic concepts that most all of us feel we should.

Really? I'm pretty good at sticking to some of them. Like the not killing thing - that's a doddle.

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Concepts that we all know benefit society.

Except for the first four.

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The commandments are there to humble us.

Thats why we don't like them...IMO.

Actually it's because they're a blatant power grab with a side portion of stating the bloody obvious.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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Really? I'm pretty good at sticking to some of them. Like the not killing thing - that's a doddle.

apparently you didn't get the memo....keep reading.

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Actually it's because they're a blatant power grab with a side portion of stating the bloody obvious.

Yeah...It's pretty sad when you gotta state the obvious to adults that should know better.

btw.... which one are you. "Not Guilty" or "I'm not as bad as that guy"

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[JackC 0]

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btw.... which one are you. "Not Guilty" or "I'm not as bad as that guy"

As an atheist, I could take a shot at "not guilty".

1. No gods before god - check, no gods at all. That was easy
2. No idols - seriously, does anybody worship idols these day?
3. No wrongful use of the name of your God - N/A I don't got no god to blaspheme about
4. Remember the Sabbath - I never work weekends.
5. Honor your father and mother - you don't need to remind me
6. You shall not kill - check, and I don't agree with the death penalty either
7. You shall not commit adultery - I'm not married and neither is she
8. You shall not steal - Easy, I'm not a fucking pikey.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor - I don't need to, they do that for themselves.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's stuff - I can afford my own stuff thanks


I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[Coreece 190]

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I don't see what all the fuss is about.

I actualy thought that you and Jakee had a better working knowledge of the basic concepts of the Bible that would give credibility in a debate on the subject.

The following comments (and I'll just list 2) prove to me that you still have yet to understand those basic concepts:

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2. No idols - seriously, does anybody worship idols these day?

Yes, it's called money. We have seen many examples lately of how this form of idolatry has negatively affected society and those that practice such idolatry. They risk their whole lives and the lives of others because of it.

Many people think that worshiping idols involves a bunch of people walking in circles around a statue chanting hunga bunga.

In most cases it is not that obvious and takes place within a persons heart...they put material possessions above all else, including the lives of others...

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6. You shall not kill - check, and I don't agree with the death penalty either

Again, if you read the context, murder encompasses hatred. In some form or another, hatred is the cause of murder among other ills of society.

Ulimately, It is pride that's the catalyst for all behavior that is detrimental to society.

Pride can only be countered with humility. As I said, the commandments were designed to humble us...to show us that we clearly have a problem.

The obvious had to be stated because eventhough we know these things...we still have the balls to deny our guilt....Pride is most deceptive and we need everything we can to counter it and control it....not deny it and let it run it's course.

If we break the law just once....you are not perfect. That must be dealt with before it escalates out of control. We are all familiar with this concept. the first lie is never usually the last.


I listen to you guys alot and I don't understand why I thought you had a better understanding of the basic concepts of the Bible...It is clear to me now that you might only be rejecting it because you don't understand it...this actual encourages me and gives me hope.

However, I must admit that I'm felling a little like good ole Dick Dawkins in one of his interviews....He assumed the interviewer had a better understanding of the basic concepts of evolution, but than their ignorance on the subject surfaces when they ask questions like "can you give an expample of a genetic or evolutionary process that can be seen to increase the information in the genome?" or ignorant statements like I don't believe in evolution cause the big bang is a bunch of BS.

(edited for clarity)

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,489]

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btw.... which one are you. "Not Guilty" or "I'm not as bad as that guy"

Me?

I'm "I don't give a flying fuck about justifying myself to some dead Jewish propagandists."

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JackC 0]

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I listen to you guys alot and I don't understand why I thought you had a better understanding of the basic concepts of the Bible...It is clear to me now that you might only be rejecting it because you don't understand it...this actual encourages me and gives me hope.

I can't speak for anyone else but I find what the Bible says to be absurd. It is contradictory, doesn't fit with what I know to be fact, has dubious moral worth and is about as relavant to me as a recipe for Dodo meat kebabs. My lack of understanding as you refer to it, is most likely due to the fact that I read the Bible without the preconception that it is word of God. To me it is just a badly written book of little consequence.

[434 2]

Notice how many gods you reject
There are literally thousands of religions being practiced today. Here are 20 of the most popular, along with an estimate of the number of followers:

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand
http://godisimaginary.com/i28.htm

[jakee 1,489]

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I actualy thought that you and Jakee had a better working knowledge of the basic concepts of the Bible that would give credibility in a debate on the subject.

That's funny, because I'm surprised that you don't get what it's all about.

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Yes, it's called money. We have seen many examples lately of how this form of idolatry has negatively affected society and those that practice such idolatry. They risk their whole lives and the lives of others because of it.

Well, I'm not Bernie Madoff or Allen Stanford, so how does that affect me?

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Many people think that worshiping idols involves a bunch of people walking in circles around a statue chanting hunga bunga.

That's a bit racialist, innit?

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Again, if you read the context, murder encompasses hatred. In some form or another, hatred is the cause of murder among other ills of society.

See that's just sloppy. If they wanted it to mean hatred, why didn't they just write hatred instead of something completely different and much more specific? Does the context to make it mean hatred come from the same author, or even the same time period? It was Jesus who went around talking about committing murder in the heart, wasn't it?

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The obvious had to be stated because eventhough we know these things...

Again, what about the first four? I doubt that most people 'know' those.

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If we break the law just once....you are not perfect. That must be dealt with before it escalates out of control.

How can it be dealt with if they're impossible to follow? Isn't it your whole point that regardless of how hard you try you'll still fail? Surely that'll just make people say "fuck it, let's go bowling" instead?

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It is clear to me now that you might only be rejecting it because you don't understand it...this actual encourages me and gives me hope.

Best put that hope away - I don't reject the bible because I don't understand it, I reject it because God doesn't exist. I've made that very clear, several times before.

(Although, even if that wasn't the case, I'd still find many of the moral teachings within it absolutely repugnant.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[434 2]

I kill ... I wound ... I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. -- Deuteronomy 32:39-42
In a previous post, I've listed and counted God's killings in the Bible. But I only included those that said exactly how many were killed by God. I came up with 2,391,421.

But that didn't include some of God's most impressive slaughters. How many did God drown in the flood or burn to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptians did he kill? The Bible doesn't say, so there's no way to know for sure. But it's possible to provide rough estimates in order to get a grand total, and that's what I'm attempting here. (New total: 33 million.) The total is listed in the link

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-many-has-god-killed-complete-list.html

[frequentfaller 0]

not to take us off the subject, but I was on the train going to work today and a girl next to me told me I was rude for not blessing her when she sneezed, blowing snot and spit in her hand. Is that shit in the bible? thou shalt ask thy lord to bless thy snotty bitches. do muslims bless each other?

Born ok 1st time.

[Coreece 190]

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How can it be dealt with if they're impossible to follow? Isn't it your whole point that regardless of how hard you try you'll still fail? Surely that'll just make people say "fuck it, let's go bowling" instead?

Yes...you will still fail....just not as often.

If I knew someone was about to be murdered and there was nothing I could do about it...I hope I would still try.

That's just a very basic concept in life that can be applied to many situations. It's called character and plays a large role for sucess in life.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[JackC 0]

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How can it be dealt with if they're impossible to follow? Isn't it your whole point that regardless of how hard you try you'll still fail? Surely that'll just make people say "fuck it, let's go bowling" instead?

Yes...you will still fail....just not as often.

If I knew I couldn't win an all or nothing game and would have to beg for clemency from The Man, why would I agree to play in the first place? That's just stupid.

[jakee 1,489]

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Yes...you will still fail....just not as often.

But you said that if you fail just once it needs to be dealt with. If you then keep on failing, which is apparently inevitable, then it hasn't been dealt with, has it? The only thing possible is a continuance of the status quo, which is failure.

(It's interesting that this is the only point in my post you felt you could address.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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If I knew I couldn't win an all or nothing game and would have to beg for clemency from The Man, why would I agree to play in the first place? That's just stupid.

At one point I realized that I was in the game wether I liked it or not....I also knew how to win (you just stated it)...I didn't like those rules either, I wanted to create my own rules...afterall who wants to win by humility? Humilty is a bitch...people may not respect you.

The stupidity is pride.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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But you said that if you fail just once it needs to be dealt with. If you then keep on failing, which is apparently inevitable, then it hasn't been dealt with, has it?

if you recognize the problem and try to change specific negative aspects, you limit the control it has in your life and it's negative consequences.....

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(It's interesting that this is the only point in my post you felt you could address.)

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That's funny, because I'm surprised that you don't get what it's all about.

ok...ha ha

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Well, I'm not Bernie Madoff or Allen Stanford, so how does that affect me?

I'm not here to judge your heart...I can't do that. It's up to you to deal with your faults....if you're not perfect, that is.

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That's a bit racialist, innit?

I don't know what it is....I just though Hunga Bunga was funny...I think you got my point though.

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See that's just sloppy. If they wanted it to mean hatred, why didn't they just write hatred instead of something completely different and much more specific? Does the context to make it mean hatred come from the same author, or even the same time period? It was Jesus who went around talking about committing murder in the heart, wasn't it?

Yes, and I believe I'm a Christian...I believe the words of Christ...The New Testament is part of the context.

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Again, what about the first four? I doubt that most people 'know' those.

The first four for the most part deal with God. The Bible assumes God's exsistence...It also says that it is evident within us...As you have already stated, you don't believe that...I can't make you believe.

I assumed you answer would've ran along the lines of..."I told you a million times...God doesn't exsist."
so...there's not much to talk about is there?

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Best put that hope away - I don't reject the bible because I don't understand it, I reject it because God doesn't exist. I've made that very clear, several times before.

Need I say more?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,489]

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Yes, and I believe I'm a Christian...I believe the words of Christ...The New Testament is part of the context.

What kind of context is it that's only provided several hundred years later? Was it ok for Jews to hate people?

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The first four for the most part deal with God. The Bible assumes God's exsistence...It also says that it is evident within us...As you have already stated, you don't believe that...I can't make you believe.

I assumed you answer would've ran along the lines of..."I told you a million times...God doesn't exist."
so...there's not much to talk about is there?

Pay attention, please, and stop trying to twist away from the issue, Rush-style.

You said that everyone can recognise that the commandments are concepts that we all know benefit society. Hence my question, what about the first four? Were you seriously suggesting that everyone knows that we should all believe exclusively in the Judeo-christian god for the benefit of society? Were you suggesting that everyone knows that this "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me" is in our own best interests?

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Best put that hope away - I don't reject the bible because I don't understand it, I reject it because God doesn't exist. I've made that very clear, several times before.

Need I say more?

Yes. I've told you the reason I reject the Bible - if you want to convince me that I actually reject the Bible for a different reason, you will have to say a lot more.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JackC 0]

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At one point I realized that I was in the game wether I liked it or not....I also knew how to win (you just stated it)...I didn't like those rules either, I wanted to create my own rules...afterall who wants to win by humility? Humilty is a bitch...people may not respect you.

When the Mafia operate that way, it's called extortion and it's illegal. I find it pretty amazing that anyone could realise they were being screwed and still think it was a good thing.

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The stupidity is pride.

The night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps. ~ Marcellus Wallace (Pulp Fiction)

[SpeedRacer 1]

this conversation has gotten way off track. how the hell is anyone getting screwed?

Speed Racer
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[Amazon 7]

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not to take us off the subject, but I was on the train going to work today and a girl next to me told me I was rude for not blessing her when she sneezed, blowing snot and spit in her hand. Is that shit in the bible? thou shalt ask thy lord to bless thy snotty bitches. do muslims bless each other?

Blowing snot and spreading germs...deserves a GOD DAMN YOU...

Surprises the hell out of someone

[JackC 0]

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this conversation has gotten way off track. how the hell is anyone getting screwed?

It's extortion. When is extortion ever acceptable?

[billvon 2,990]

>Yes, it's called money.

And churches, and saints, and flags, and popes, and shrouds, and images of the Virgin Mary on toast. Yep, it's pretty common.

>Again, if you read the context, murder encompasses hatred.

That's a stretch. The original commandment was "lo tirtzack" which is more literally translated as "you shall not kill at all."

Even when Jesus spoke on it, he didn't claim that that commandment covered hatred - only (in his words) that one should not be "angry with his brother without a cause."

[SpeedRacer 1]

what extortion? You can choose to be with God or not. We have free will, so where is the extortion?

Speed Racer
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[JackC 0]

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what extortion? You can choose to be with God or not. We have free will, so where is the extortion?

You do know what extortion means right? If the mafia turn up on your doorstep demanding money for protection, you have free will to say no. God is running the same racket.

[SpeedRacer 1]

You seem to think that God has his hand on some trapdoor switch to hell, and he's just itching to pull it on you. That's not it at all.


If Hell exists, it is more of a default position of separation from God. You go there all by yourself.

Anyway, it's not something I worry about.

Speed Racer
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