Does anyone care if baseball players take steroids?

[AggieDave 6]

Ok, I'm not going to spend a lot of time referencing a lot of material, since there is a decent amount of material out there on the subject.
Here is a single example to start you with your research:

Performance-Enhancing Medications and Drugs of Abuse
By Mark S. Gold

This talks about the mixtures of plants, herbs, wine and mushrooms used by gladiators to get an edge.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andy9o8 2]

Hmm. Seems everybody around here is into gladiators. Very interesting.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[loumeinhart 0]

c'mon, sports are fixed anyway

[Gene03 0]

Thanks, looking into it right now.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[kelpdiver 2]

I care, for two reasons.

1) baseball has rules against it, and half assed testing. If it didn't have rules, then I wouldn't care. If violations occurred before these were implemented, I don't care.

2) Even though the effectiveness is mixed, that some players are willing to take the side effects means that others will be compelled to do so as well. And teen boys (and girls, it seems) will do so as well, even though it's highly likely they'll see none of the benefits and all of the consequences.

---
A different matter are these perjury trials - I think it's a joke that Bonds is being indicted not for use, but for denying it, esp when we knew (and saw it proven afterwards) that private testimony to the grand jury would be leaked.

BTW, for those who seem unaware - the NFL does have a steroid policy, and people are suspended for violations. It's arguably a pretty weak program.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I care. The system will always have cheats, but if we succumb then we will have a system where the only way to succeed is to cheat. That is probably already true in some sports (short distance track comes to mind) and may be true in baseball. In baseball the great players get there by combining talent with hard work. If the system is established where the only way to the top is talent hard work and steroids then that is what those people will do. So also will the also rans. So also will the never rans in the colleges and high schools.
Platform shoes looked good to me when I was in high school because I thought I would look taller. Of course everyone else was wearing them so I ended up buying them to stay even, not to get ahead. I don't believe we should acquiesce to a regime where our young people know they cannot succeed in sports unless they sacrifice their bodies to steroids.

[billvon 3,077]

Not too much.

How about this - have a traditional league and an 'open class' league. In the traditional league, no drugs/steroids. In the open class league, do whatever you want. Get surgery to make yourself 8 feet tall. Take cocaine right before a game. Get shoes that have springs in them. Then both players and spectators can choose which one they participate in.

[masterrig 1]

I agree with you. Those athletes taking enhancing drugs should not be allowed in any sport and if, they set or break some record while using enhancers, they should be bounced from the game and stripped of any titles or records and no * after their name.

Kids look-up to major league athletes and those athletes are not good examples. Some high school football players here in West Texas, have been known to sneak across the border to buy performance enhancing drugs. Ain't that just great! Where'd they get the idea to take those drugs in the first place.

If, a competitor can't compete without them, they don't belong in the game. Just because the idea has been with us since the gladiators, doesn't make it right. There's rules against it and if, they can't play by the rules... they don't play.
I grew-up loving baseball and grew-up in the days of Kaline, Maris, Mantle, Ford... the real greats. They played for the love of the game. There wasn't a whole lot of money in it, then but, they earned their pay honestly and they loved the game. Like so many other things in this world, it goes back to greed. The bigger numbers an athlete can put-up, the bigger his pay check. If it means taking drugs, they don't care. I don't care about them. A-Rod and all those like him, don't belong in baseball. They're just cheats! Is that the kind of example we want for our kids?


Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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I grew-up loving baseball and grew-up in the days of Kaline, Maris, Mantle, Ford... the real greats. They played for the love of the game.

It's not as recent a phenomenon as you might think.
In 1960, Sports Illustrated published an investigative article, "Our Drug-Happy Athletes" by George Walsh, exposing the use of amphetamines, tranquilizers, cocaine and other drugs in elite sports. Kaline, Maris, Mantle, and Ford were all active players in 1960. Now, I'm not saying that any of those particular guys necessarily used performance enhancing drugs (although by then Mantle was already a very heavy drinker; hushed-up in public so as not to be a bad example for idolizing kids), but it does appear that the use of drugs to get an edge in athletics was already getting a toehold back then.

[pirana 0]

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*Speaking of which, do you like gladiator movies?

It was a reference to a classic line in the movie Airplane


http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:9Bav1zUd0FYJ:www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13805019/+%22do+you+like+gladiator+movies%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Sometimes I am really in the dark on stuff. My blabber about movies must have come off as really gullible blabber.

But again, what was it that was like other zillionaires?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[masterrig 1]

That's interesting! I guess, since even ancient athletes used some form of enhancer, nothing's to say that it wouldn't follow through history. My point is, anyone using drugs of any fashion or form to enhance their performance is a cheat. Kids growing-up idolize athletes and for them to grow-up with the idea that 'it's been around for ever' is not a good example. Just because everybody does it doesn't make it right. The players I mentioned are just a few of the players I idolized. I know now, there was a lot of hush-hush in every aspect of our society. Babe Ruth drank like a fish... I didn't idolize him. When I learned that Mantle had a drinking problem, it saddened me.


Chuck

[doug925 0]

Nope!

I have never developed indigestion from eating my words.
Winston Churchill

[rehmwa 2]

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Kids growing-up idolize athletes and for them to grow-up with the idea that 'it's been around for ever' is not a good example.

Just the fact we have an environment where they idolize athletes at all is not a good example.

They shouldn't idolize athletes or politicians.

They should have role models of good parents, responsible adults that meet their commitments, any decent person that's close to them in life. Not some asshole they won't ever interact with personally.

I don't care what athletes, or politicians, or actors, or whoever...do with themselves. I'm teaching my daughter to find people in her direct life to admire and emulate - and exceed some day.

It's the difference in teaching them to work with reality instead of fiction in their lives.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[headoverheels 333]

If the steroids were harmless, I don't think it would matter. What I don't like is that it forces others to take them, just so that they can compete for the dollars.

Personally, I can't believe that any of them can actually get paid for that. I wouldn't spend a dollar a year to watch pro sports.

[masterrig 1]

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Kids growing-up idolize athletes and for them to grow-up with the idea that 'it's been around for ever' is not a good example.

Just the fact we have an environment where they idolize athletes at all is not a good example.

They shouldn't idolize athletes or politicians.

They should have role models of good parents, responsible adults that meet their commitments, any decent person that's close to them in life. Not some asshole they won't ever interact with personally.

I don't care what athletes, or politicians, or actors, or whoever...do with themselves. I'm teaching my daughter to find people in her direct life to admire and emulate - and exceed some day.

It's the difference in teaching them to work with reality instead of fiction in their lives.

That's the way it should be. Wanting to be like a boy's father or uncle. A girl wanting to be like mom or grandma. Unfortunately, too many kids grow-up in single parent situations, for one reason or another. Also, look at the number of magazines on the news stands that glorify and glamorize athletes, rap stars, rock stars, movie stars and etc.. What's a kid to do? I think, the way you are raising your child is great. That's the way it should be and don't quit! Reality speaks otherwise. To me, anyone on the front cover of Sports Illustrated, Tiger Beat or any other magazine needs to step-up and be the person, athlete, rock star, whatever that kids see. No matter how hard a parent tries to get their kids to emulate them or a relative, they will always be inundated with 'stars'. For a kid to think that taking drugs and making tons of money is the way to go, he got it from some 'star' and that star should have his ass beat... not glorified.


Chuck

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I don't

Nope.

They should split sports into open/unlimited and all-natural classes, where steroids and drugs may be a part of unlimited.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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That's the way it should be. Wanting to be like a boy's father or uncle. A girl wanting to be like mom or grandma. Unfortunately, too many kids grow-up in single parent situations, for one reason or another. Also, look at the number of magazines on the news stands that glorify and glamorize athletes, rap stars, rock stars, movie stars and etc.. What's a kid to do? I think, the way you are raising your child is great. That's the way it should be and don't quit! Reality speaks otherwise. To me, anyone on the front cover of Sports Illustrated, Tiger Beat or any other magazine needs to step-up and be the person, athlete, rock star, whatever that kids see. No matter how hard a parent tries to get their kids to emulate them or a relative, they will always be inundated with 'stars'. For a kid to think that taking drugs and making tons of money is the way to go, he got it from some 'star' and that star should have his ass beat... not glorified.


Chuck

Sure, but it is normal for societies to look for heroes. I grew up thinking Billy Bishop was the greatest man to ever live, but he was probably an egotistical, womanizing, lush, like most of the other pilots I know. What has really changed is the way the press gleefully burns the icons to the ground as soon as they have built them up.

[masterrig 1]

There you go! The press and media hype athletes to extremes. They'll take some rookie and over night, he's the hottest thing since the habanero! When I was a kid, an athlete wouldn't think of 'charging' for an autograph. Kids are definately getting the wrong picture. Again, they are inundated with hype about their favorite star, every time they turn-on the t.v.. I believe too, team owners and coaches turn their backs on juicing... till one of their guys gets caught.


Chuck

[happythoughts 0]

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It's the difference in teaching them to work with reality instead of fiction in their lives.

And Lindsay Lohan is teaching kids that if they have
enough money, they can be caught with bags of
coke in their pockets while driving drunk at high speeds... but not have any repercussions.

Paris Hilton is all about casual sex with the entire
US population.

Hollywood isn't promoting your messages.

[rehmwa 2]

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It's the difference in teaching them to work with reality instead of fiction in their lives.

And Lindsay Lohan is teaching kids that if they have
enough money, they can be caught with bags of
coke in their pockets while driving drunk at high speeds... but not have any repercussions.

Paris Hilton is all about casual sex with the entire
US population.

Hollywood isn't promoting your messages.

Lindsey, Paris, etc isn't teaching the kids, the parents are letting it happen.

It's not Lindsey and Paris's duty to set an example, it would nice if they did better, but they don't owe us anything.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[likearock 2]

I care. It's a fucking crime that Hank Aaron, who played by the rules, doesn't still have his record. The only ones who passed him were juiced.

[akarunway 1]

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Yes, I do . It's cheating and sets a really bad example to the fans, especially the kids.

These people should grow the fuck up and be good ambassadors for their sport and country - and stop acting like the spoilt brats that a lot of them are; they get paid enough

There used to be a joke going around that the
Dallas Cowboys were going to have a great team
in 2-to-5 years. Some team members had been
sent to jail for a variety of offenses.

In the US, professional athletes are routinely not
prosecuted for all sorts of crimes. The crimes
against other people are the crimes that concern me.
Crimes of violence are a greater problem that they
don't seem to address.

Kinda like these guys? >Barkley was frequently fined for on-court fights with NBA players, such as Shaquille O'Neal, Bill Laimbeer, and Charles Oakley, among others. He was also equally confrontational off the court. He was arrested for breaking a man's nose during a fight after a game with the Milwaukee Bucks and also for throwing a man through a plate-glass window after being struck with a glass of ice. Not to mention ROLE MODEL OJ? Sad.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[pirana 0]

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Kids growing-up idolize athletes and for them to grow-up with the idea that 'it's been around for ever' is not a good example.

Just the fact we have an environment where they idolize athletes at all is not a good example.

They shouldn't idolize athletes or politicians.

They should have role models of good parents, responsible adults that meet their commitments, any decent person that's close to them in life. Not some asshole they won't ever interact with personally.

I don't care what athletes, or politicians, or actors, or whoever...do with themselves. I'm teaching my daughter to find people in her direct life to admire and emulate - and exceed some day.

It's the difference in teaching them to work with reality instead of fiction in their lives.

That's the way it should be. Wanting to be like a boy's father or uncle. A girl wanting to be like mom or grandma. Unfortunately, too many kids grow-up in single parent situations, for one reason or another. Also, look at the number of magazines on the news stands that glorify and glamorize athletes, rap stars, rock stars, movie stars and etc.. What's a kid to do? I think, the way you are raising your child is great. That's the way it should be and don't quit! Reality speaks otherwise. To me, anyone on the front cover of Sports Illustrated, Tiger Beat or any other magazine needs to step-up and be the person, athlete, rock star, whatever that kids see. No matter how hard a parent tries to get their kids to emulate them or a relative, they will always be inundated with 'stars'. For a kid to think that taking drugs and making tons of money is the way to go, he got it from some 'star' and that star should have his ass beat... not glorified.


Chuck

I think the fundamental problem, alluded to here if not outright stated, is that too many parents are too fucking lazy and are allowing pop culture to raise their kids. My observation in our little community is that it doesn't have to be that way. In fact, I don't think it is even that difficult to steer them away from it. It's called spending more time with your kids than they spend with bullshit pop culture outlets.

I've actually taken some criticism from people because I am not more available for things like happy hour, all night drinking binges, and other activities. I have my fun, but my priority will never be pulling the kid from practice so I don't miss happy hour. Then you meet their kids and feel bad for the raw start they are getting.

My kids think those that fawn over Hannah Montana and other similar pop BS are wacko. Kids learn stupidity and laziness and celebrity worship - it is not the default mode. Learning challenging material is the brains natural default mode, it is a survival trait we are wired for from birth, and my off the cuff guess based on exposure in our community is that about half the parents I know fuck that up completely.

When you decide to become a parent, your responsibilities change dramatically (I know, understatement big time), and my personal opinion is that about half the current young adult population ought to be nuetered.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[wmw999 2,545]

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I have my fun, but my priority will never be pulling the kid from practice so I don't miss happy hour.

QFT. While I'm a big believer in quality time, it generally only comes as a function of quantity time. Really. And if you think otherwise, you're either very lucky in your child, or fooling yourself.

Just remember back to when you were a kid, and were distressed at how much more fun you'd have if your boring parents weren't in the next room

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kelpdiver 2]

Let's get serious. Parents are never going to replace rock stars and athletes are heroes. How can they?

Aside from being in the house 7/24 and therefore unable to control the image seen, they have to spend time working and being parents. Stars have nannies and their job is the reason kids admire them. A-Rod only plays baseball, so a kid who likes the sport will look up to him. For the kid who prefers football, he's more likely to look at someone like Larry Fitzgerald. Why is dad the accountant going to be interesting?