billvon 2,991 #76 February 17, 2009 >The goal is to give them sovereignity. Then do it. Once you do, you'll have a valid point when you claim they are not part of your country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwt 0 #77 February 17, 2009 When the video of the girls beating was posted online here in America, all hell broke loose.Those kids were arrested and punished.This kinda stuff should be exposed and everyone held accountable. This new age of instant messaging and cell phone videos is aiding in making this less and less likely.Blue Skies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #78 February 17, 2009 Quote>The goal is to give them sovereignity. Then do it. Once you do, you'll have a valid point when you claim they are not part of your country. Again Bill GAZA has never been a prt of the State of Israel.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War The attached picture of the 1947 borders are instructive. The Arabs.. kept attacking Israel.. they lost territory.. but Israel has never annexed Gaza.. and they withdrew hoping the inhabitants would make peace.... silly them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #79 February 18, 2009 The British rulled the land before Israel was founded, so was I supposed to be British? so would you call Iraqis americans now? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #80 February 18, 2009 QuoteQuotePalestinians in Gaza are in every respect a foreign nation ruled by a government which declared war on Israel. huge difference... The Gaza strip is blockaded by Israel, Therefore All humanitarian aid, and needs are Israelis responsibility per international law. I know Israel has no respect for such things as laws and shit but that is the standard when you are the one doing the blockading. Kind of make sense doesn’t it? Did the border with Egypt suddenly disappear? You keep going on about how ISRAEL is blockading and ISRAEL needs to do things - what about Egypt?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #81 February 18, 2009 Quote An enemy that vows to kill you at all costs must be exterminated. Anything less and the enemy will laugh at you, much as they are at Obama. It is what it is. Quote Utopia is great. It just doesn't exist here. Quote Not out of intelligent arguments. Just making an observation. “Observation” of what? Algeria? Indonesia in East Timor? (600,000 East Timorese killed, and they still fought til they got their separate state) Western Sahara (from Morocco)? Sri Lanka and the Tamils/LTTE? Phillipines and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) Colombia and FARC? Russia and Chechnyan rebels? Various colonial small wars/insurgencies in Africa? Spain and Basque separatists (pre and post-Franco)? Prussia under occupation by Napoleonic forces? (Clausewitz on small wars, insurgencies, and asymmetric warfare, including but not limited to the “Arming of the People” chapter in _On War_. I.e., why large nations lose small wars and defense strategically is the strongest form of warfare. Small wars are tactically offensive and strategically defensive.) And to anticipate the ‘strawman’ response – it’s not about kindness, being nice, ‘comfy couch strategy’, idealism, or any such notional straw man. It’s about strategy and history. (See Book 1, page 1, _On War_.) Seriously, on what reading/perceiving of historical or military strategy do you base your assertion? What brings you to your statements that are made with such rhetorical force/stridency and confident assertiveness? Why are you so convinced in your “observations”? What do you think you have “observed” that supports your assertion? What led you to that opinion? And how do explain that the most recent Quadrennial Defense Review (2006, largely still under SecDef Rumsfeld, over 20 references to ‘stabilization’, etc), the latest US National Defense Strategy (from June 2008), DoDD 3000.05 on stability operations in support of reconstruction and transition (November 2005), and DoDD 3000.07 are directly opposite to your assertions? If belief is not grounded in facts (historical or contemporary), in what is grounded? I’m less interested in debunking a-history than in understanding on what basis you assert what you think you know. I wonder if it’s a temporal phenomenon – one can see & can count a dead insurgent/terrorist/enemy body. That moment/image is strong/vivid/final … rarely are the long term repercussions/consequences, composed of many small/incomplete moments felt or afforded the same weight. We don’t need to got warfare (small or conventional) to see that. Single large events are over-emphasized, e.g., deaths in plane crash over many small ones (automobile accidents) even though the death count of the latter is much larger (typically orders of magnitude in US per year). And the emotional component of revenge? Which I’m not even sure how to go about deconvoluting from a positivist realist approach. Can’t pretend it doesn’t exist and isn’t a strongly motivating emotion … just not sure how to unpack metaphorically … Humans also learn to count before they learn to read. We can count dead bodies *a lot* easier than we can measure deterrence/co-ercion/stabilization/reconstruction/counter-insurgency/cooperation. Again, why do you think you know what you think you know so confidently? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #82 February 18, 2009 Quote Quote Got any cool videos of Palestinians, or anyone else for that matter, running over people with Caterpillar bulldozers? Tag, you're it. An old friend sent this to me just for you. http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/02/video-palestinian-bulldozer-attack-kills-2-in-jerusalem/ I believe you are now "it". Jew in a bulldozer, please. Ooops, you're right. I forgot that one. Don't want to play any more today. But if you're interested in where I'd probably go for the counter argument material, it's here. Poke around for a while. There's some good info there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #83 February 18, 2009 Quote Right. Now try telling a redneck in South Carolina that he's really part of that Yankee government and see how that works out for ya. He'll make some good natured joke, continue to obey the laws, pay his taxes, volunteer in his community, and be a good citizen.You are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #84 February 18, 2009 Quote Quote Seriously, on what reading/perceiving of historical or military strategy do you base your assertion? What brings you to your statements that are made with such rhetorical force/stridency and confident assertiveness? Why are you so convinced in your “observations”? What do you think you have “observed” that supports your assertion? What led you to that opinion? And how do explain that the most recent Quadrennial Defense Review (2006, largely still under SecDef Rumsfeld, over 20 references to ‘stabilization’, etc), the latest US National Defense Strategy (from June 2008), DoDD 3000.05 on stability operations in support of reconstruction and transition (November 2005), and DoDD 3000.07 are directly opposite to your assertions? If belief is not grounded in facts (historical or contemporary), in what is grounded? Again, why do you think you know what you think you know so confidently? /Marg Damn girl, you are far too interested in what I think. Ya might wanna re-read my post you replied to. I wasn't "observing" what you think I was. And have a drink. You sound like you could use one....or six.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #85 February 18, 2009 Quote Damn girl, you are far too interested in what I think. Ya might wanna re-read my post you replied to. I wasn't "observing" what you think I was. And have a drink. You sound like you could use one....or six. Dude - data-mining is her thing - tracking down a thread of information probably *IS* like having a drink to her!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #86 February 18, 2009 Quote Did the border with Egypt suddenly disappear? You keep going on about how ISRAEL is blockading and ISRAEL needs to do things - what about Egypt? No, but it's controlled through a "third party" by way of an agreement between Israel, the US, the PA and Egypt. I'm having a hard time piecing that one together. The EU monitors have to be present for the border to be open. That's rarely the case these days for more than a couple of reasons. Egypt has opened the Rafah crossing from time to time, typically to allow people to receive medical treatment and to let some supplies in. But they can't keep it open because of the agreement and because Egypt doesn't think it can securely handle 1.5 million suffering (and angry) people. It seems that Egypt wants to help more, but can't do it legally or without the risk of being over run. That seems the most likely reason that Egyptian eyes seem to divert with regard to the tunneling activity. It's a financially lucrative means of allowing aid without "allowing" it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #87 February 18, 2009 If he did collaborated with the enemy in a time of war then he got off lightly.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #88 February 18, 2009 Quote Quote and when the IDF does it it is excused, when the whole Israeli military uses phosphorous on civilians, or brakes any of the other rules of war (really too many to mention here) it is excused. It is a shitty world filled with hypocrites. Got any cool videos of Jews sawing off some muslim heads??? IDF breaking the limbs of a Palastinian civillian prisoner http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=IDF+breaking+a+arms&n=21&ei=utf-8&js=1&fr=yfp-t-501-ie&fr2=tab-web&tnr=20&vid=0001117424492When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #89 February 18, 2009 >so would you call Iraqis americans now? Nope, they got their very own country. But I would call Puerto Ricans Americans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #90 February 18, 2009 Quote Quote Quote and when the IDF does it it is excused, when the whole Israeli military uses phosphorous on civilians, or brakes any of the other rules of war (really too many to mention here) it is excused. It is a shitty world filled with hypocrites. Got any cool videos of Jews sawing off some muslim heads??? IDF breaking the limbs of a Palastinian civillian prisoner http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=IDF+breaking+a+arms&n=21&ei=utf-8&js=1&fr=yfp-t-501-ie&fr2=tab-web&tnr=20&vid=0001117424492 I guess all of the Hamas terrorist supporters are having a bad week... I can link to some great head sawing off video's...but I just cant seem to find anyChristians.. or Jews doing that... to Muslims.. I wonder why that is... Come on now.. help me out here.. if those JUDEN are so terrible you would think we could get a good head lopping off video or two from them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #91 February 18, 2009 QuoteBut I would call Puerto Ricans Americans they want to be called Americans. Palestinians don't want to be called Israelis. they want to be called Palestinians. they have a different culture, faith and language than Israelis (excluding the Israeli Arab minority), I really don't understand why you are so eager to add them to Israel when neither side wants that. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #92 February 18, 2009 QuoteIf he did collaborated with the enemy in a time of war then he got off lightly. I'm sure you mean a fair trial? or picking people off the street, blindfolding them and throwing off a rooftop is the right way of doing things? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #93 February 18, 2009 >they want to be called Americans. Quite a few don't, actually. Go down there and ask if they self-identify as Puerto Ricans or Americans. (There's a reason they don't want to become the 51st state.) >I really don't understand why you are so eager to add them to Israel when >neither side wants that. I'm not - and if Israel granted them sovereignty, I'd believe they aren't eager either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #94 February 18, 2009 I admit i'm not well aware of how puerto ricans identify themselves. the one I've met said he was Puerto Rican. Quoteand if Israel granted them sovereignty, I'd believe they aren't eager either That's the goal of the peace process that has been taking place since the early 90's. the fact that it is stuck, makes the Paelstinian issue an unsolved problem, it doesnt make them Israelis until decided otherwise. besides, once the PA was formed, you can call them Palestinians even though its not a state yet. they have their own passports and everything. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #95 February 19, 2009 Quote>they want to be called Americans. Quite a few don't, actually. Go down there and ask if they self-identify as Puerto Ricans or Americans. (There's a reason they don't want to become the 51st state.) Are you sure that's a majority opinion? Many want more than colony status. Just as with the residents of DC. They may identify as Puerto Rican, just as Texans so self identify, but they want the gains of statehood too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #96 February 19, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote and when the IDF does it it is excused, when the whole Israeli military uses phosphorous on civilians, or brakes any of the other rules of war (really too many to mention here) it is excused. It is a shitty world filled with hypocrites. Got any cool videos of Jews sawing off some muslim heads??? IDF breaking the limbs of a Palastinian civillian prisoner http://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=IDF+breaking+a+arms&n=21&ei=utf-8&js=1&fr=yfp-t-501-ie&fr2=tab-web&tnr=20&vid=0001117424492 I guess all of the Hamas terrorist supporters are having a bad week... I can link to some great head sawing off video's...but I just cant seem to find anyChristians.. or Jews doing that... to Muslims.. I wonder why that is... Come on now.. help me out here.. if those JUDEN are so terrible you would think we could get a good head lopping off video or two from them. Unlike some, I don't judge a person on their religion, so your inferance of a belief in an untermenschen idology says allot about you.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #97 February 19, 2009 QuoteUnlike some, I don't judge a person on their religion, so your inferance of a belief in an untermenschen idology says allot about you. I judge a people based on what I have seen in my lifetime. In that period of time I have seen about 20 or more video's of good muslims visciously sawing off the heads of jews and christians...in the name of THEIR religion.. what's a girl to think??? Perhaps we need some equal time.. just in the name of fair and balanced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #98 February 19, 2009 QuoteQuite a few don't, actually. Go down there and ask if they self-identify as Puerto Ricans or Americans. (There's a reason they don't want to become the 51st state.) you beat me to it. I've got some friends from there and that's what they say Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #99 February 19, 2009 QuoteDamn girl, you are far too interested in what I think. Ya might wanna re-read my post you replied to. I wasn't "observing" what you think I was. Interesting ... why do you think it is only you in whose thought process (epistomology of assertions) I am interested? QuoteAn enemy that vows to kill you at all costs must be exterminated. Anything less and the enemy will laugh at you, much as they are at Obama. It is what it is. So what did you mean by that quote? And what gives you that strident confidence? QuoteAnd have a drink. You sound like you could use one....or six. That is probably true as I am currently sitting on the tarmac at Knoxville, having been diverted from ATL on my way home from LGA. A couple colleagues and I already have a bet on when we will get home. Losers buy beer. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #100 February 19, 2009 QuoteDude - data-mining is her thing - tracking down a thread of information probably *IS* like having a drink to her! Per the subject line, tactics do not equal strategy. I ask questions ... lots of questions. It's about having empirical evidence ("facts") to support the underlying lines of reasoning or challenge (mis-)assumptions. Sometimes it's about trying to figure out how/why/what train of reasoning folks use to get to perceptions that they assert with such confidence. (Occasionally I agree & want to see how they got to similar conclusions and some times I learn something new ... or even change by opinions based on new facts.) Is it better to be confidently wrong or tentatively right (correct)? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
