XitXitXit 0 #1 February 20, 2009 Going on the premise of something given has no value. Should the right to vote be changed to a privilege for those who have completed X amount of community/state/federal service? I.E. military service, public servants, community organizers, or anybody that gives back something of which has been provided for them. Discuss.There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 February 20, 2009 No. It should not. As painful as it is to know some people with view points different than yours with different life experiences are voting, that's still an important right that should not be restricted. Well, restricted beyond what it is now, being a citizen and 18... The right to vote had to be "earned" in the past. There were various measures that were put in place locally around the country to make sure only the educated upper classes would be voting.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XitXitXit 0 #3 February 20, 2009 It has nothing to do with whether people agree with me or not, and I'm not saying make it hard or make it where you have to have money, or education, or anything but the willingness to give back a little. You know it only takes 6 months of continuous active duty service to be a veteran. Is that such a hard goal to achieve? I don't even think it should have to be military service. 6 months of community service, or maybe if you become a fireman, you also earn the right, or any number of other things. My thoughts are that to many people take for granted the rights given to them, because they are just given. If that right was earned then it would mean more to them.. that's all I'm saying.There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #4 February 20, 2009 No, if they whole world becomes a bunch of idiots, they still should have the right to choose they're doom. Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #5 February 20, 2009 Absolutely NOT. I knew plenty of people in the service that couldn't even tie their own shoe laces.... being ex-military does not qualify anyone to being a responsible citizen. This is a fucking stupid suggestion [Full-Stop] (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 February 20, 2009 It's a fact that people cherish more the things that they earn - but the right to vote is just that - a right, not a privilege or a gift. Service of some sort MAY make the person appreciate the right MORE, but it shouldn't be a requirement. My vote is "no".Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XitXitXit 0 #7 February 20, 2009 Well why shouldn't it? The only really good reason I can think of, kinda gets back to the point I think Dave was trying to make, and that is that it would be possible that somebody could guard against somebody else earning the right. Which I think 50 or more years ago would have been a big problem, but in today's society I would like to think that that would only happen in isolated cases. But maybe I'm wrong about that. There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 February 20, 2009 QuoteMy thoughts are that to many people take for granted the rights given to them I do not disagree with that statement. However, I think overall people simply don't care about anything outside of their own little world. They care about global and national events, when it effects their own little world. Beyond that, the blinders are on.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XitXitXit 0 #9 February 20, 2009 QuoteQuoteMy thoughts are that to many people take for granted the rights given to them I do not disagree with that statement. However, I think overall people simply don't care about anything outside of their own little world. They care about global and national events, when it effects their own little world. Beyond that, the blinders are on. So do you think that the people who really don't care what happens outside of their world would bother themselves to spend the personal time, to go earn something they really don't care about in the first place? Maybe if they had to earn the right they would take a little more interest in what is outside their world.There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #10 February 20, 2009 Some folks join the military to get away from their current life, not for any higher purpose. often, it's their best route out. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #11 February 20, 2009 You should only be allowed to vote if you've attended and passed a government sponsored voter indoctrination program. Otherwise, people simply cannot be trusted to vote for the correct candidate. Goddamnit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #12 February 20, 2009 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XitXitXit 0 #13 February 20, 2009 QuoteSome folks join the military to get away from their current life, not for any higher purpose. often, it's their best route out. I'm not really sure how that response fits into my question?? I don't think that military service should be the only way to earn the right to vote, but simply one of the ways. Like I said it could be community service, or a stint in the peace corp, or amricorps, or any kind of civil service job, fireman, policeman, volunteer fireman, community organizer....There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #14 February 20, 2009 QuoteSo do you think that the people who really don't care what happens outside of their world would bother themselves to spend the personal time, to go earn something they really don't care about in the first place? Maybe if they had to earn the right they would take a little more interest in what is outside their world. It's an interesting argument. There are a lot of people here who have repeatedly asserted they don't care much about the rest of the world; I wouldn't deny them the right to vote based on that or any other opinion. What you write aboove sounds like an argument for either (1) some sort of education requirement for voting or (2) travel requirement/study abroad, &/or (3) service in something like the Peace Corps. Regardless of party affiliation/identification, highest voter turn-out correlates with education level. Now that's correlation not causation. One speculate how that intersects with other characteristics you suggest. No. I don't think the right to vote or any of the other rights included in the Constitution and Bill of Rights (from a USA-centric position) need to be earned. Which rights in the Constitution are inalienable and which aren't? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #15 February 20, 2009 It fits in as a response to you question, in that your question does not ask for a high standard of citizenship.. just that the person has served in a community like project and any old scum bag can do that. Serving in the police, fire service, forces etc.. doesn't make you a better person per se. so why should they be raise above all others and allowed to vote? - It makes no sense. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XitXitXit 0 #16 February 20, 2009 You'll have to discuss other rights in another thread, this one is strictly for the right to vote. [;)There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #17 February 20, 2009 Tone - to answer the implied question, it is likely the idea behind the voting setup in "Starship Troopers" - the thought that those who have placed the welfare of the public before their own (via service) *should* tend to show the care in regards to voting. In theory, I agree with the PRINCIPLE of the idea as I expressed above, but in reality, people will vote for what benefits them the most. "Bread and Circuses", if you will.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #18 February 20, 2009 QuoteTone - to answer the implied question, it is likely the idea behind the voting setup in "Starship Troopers" - the thought that those who have placed the welfare of the public before their own (via service) *should* tend to show the care in regards to voting. Mike - you do understand that a big part of Heinlein's use of that was a metaphor for opposition to tolitarian societies (like Soviet Union), yes? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #19 February 20, 2009 QuoteYou'll have to discuss other rights in another thread, this one is strictly for the right to vote. [;) Okay, why is the right to vote severable from the requirements of other inalienable rights? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #20 February 20, 2009 QuoteQuoteTone - to answer the implied question, it is likely the idea behind the voting setup in "Starship Troopers" - the thought that those who have placed the welfare of the public before their own (via service) *should* tend to show the care in regards to voting. Mike - you do understand that a big part of Heinlein's use of that was a metaphor for opposition to tolitarian societies (like Soviet Union), yes? /Marg Hi Marg - I dimly recall reading a quote from him saying something to that effect, yes.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #21 February 20, 2009 QuoteWell why shouldn't it? because there's absolutely no way that a process would be set up that wasn't politicized. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #22 February 20, 2009 I think you yourself should only be able to vote as a citizen after service in Rasczak's Raiders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XitXitXit 0 #23 February 20, 2009 QuoteIt fits in as a response to you question, in that your question does not ask for a high standard of citizenship.. just that the person has served in a community like project and any old scum bag can do that. Serving in the police, fire service, forces etc.. doesn't make you a better person per se. so why should they be raise above all others and allowed to vote? - It makes no sense. Ok I see where you are cumming from now. But I have to disagree with you, I do believe that work builds character, and that any old scumbag wouldn't bother to do what it takes, unless of course he isn't a scumbag at all and actually does care about the country he lives in and wants to take an active part in how it is run. Maybe I should re clarify how it should be earned. Not by any monetary means, or by any kind of educational test, but by service to the country in any form for an amount of time deemed acceptable by the general population. I only used the examples of military, fireman policeman, etc as examples. 1 week, 1 year, 1 month, 100 hours done over 6 months... who cares how it is done just as long as it is done.There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XitXitXit 0 #24 February 20, 2009 Quote Quote Well why shouldn't it? because there's absolutely no way that a process would be set up that wasn't politicized. I agree that it would be politicized, but I disagree that equality for the majority would be impossible to achieve. but maybe that is just the optimistic side of me.. There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XitXitXit 0 #25 February 20, 2009 LOL!!! I have to ask what is Rasczak's Raiders?? There are no pessimist in skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
