11 Year Old Boy Charged With Murder As An Adult

[SkyDekker 1,465]

In general I think it is. Though there is quite abit of debate as to whether or not 10 and 11 year old kids truly have a firm understanding of their actions and consequences.

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

....
Yes, they will - but I'd wait until they're a bit older. Yes, I know you meant it sarcastically, but, like usual, you're full of it.
....

Full of sarcasm! Who: Me??

So, the step niece story with the pink colt is a true one - oh man, I really have to work on my language grasp skills in order to provide proper replies ....

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

In general I think it is. Though there is quite abit of debate as to whether or not 10 and 11 year old kids truly have a firm understanding of their actions and consequences.

so...are you still writing in that odd form of sarcasm seem in other posts today?

The kid knew what he was doing. And he knew it was wrong, took steps to conceal it.

The only matter at hand is if he should be held to the same standard of punishment or not. Were he a few years older, I think there is no question. But per your statements, he might still get off scot free for killing her in Canada.

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

....
But per your statements, he might still get off scot free for killing her in Canada.

Same here. Thx God.

Such young kids cannot be held responsible for their deeds.

Anyhow, they need special psychological help. But no jail.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Unstable 9]

Quote

Anyhow, they need special psychological help. But no jail.

While I agree locking them up and throwing away the key isn't appropriate for a child who may not understand the consequences of his or her actions, I disagree with a few other points.

Many times the motives of charging a kid as an adult are not to lock him up or give him the chair. This kid shot a pregnant woman at point blank wiht a 20 gauge. Until this kid gets special psychiatric attention, what do you do with him? Send him to Juvie? Foster Care? This kid is dangerous, and charging him as an adult is a way to keep him and other safe until the courts can find a good alternative for how to deal with him.

=========Shaun ==========

[SkyDekker 1,465]

no sarcasm in this post....the other ones don't seem to have odd sarcasm, just sarcasm.

Yes, he would get off free in Canada. The dad would probably not be so lucky.

There has to be an age limit to when we decide human beings are liable for their own actions. If this kid completely understood the consequences of all his actions, why don't we allow him to vote, to drink, to buy cigarettes etc.

[goofyjumper 0]

Quote

The murder follows another shocking killing linked to a boy.

Last Thursday, a 9-year-old Arizona boy reached a plea deal with authorities who accused him of the fatal shootings of his father and his father's room-mate.

The boy pleaded guilty to negligent homicide in the death of his father's room-mate while the murder charge in his father's death was dropped.

I am waiting to see John Rich´s solution. Probably give weapons to all their siblings so they can protect mommy and daddy if little joe goes nuts with dad´s shotgun.

-----------------
I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

....

Many times the motives of charging a kid as an adult are not to lock him up or give him the chair. This kid shot a pregnant woman at point blank wiht a 20 gauge. Until this kid gets special psychiatric attention, what do you do with him? Send him to Juvie? Foster Care? This kid is dangerous, and charging him as an adult is a way to keep him and other safe until the courts can find a good alternative for how to deal with him.

That kid shot a pregnant woman. It surely was NOT aware that it would kill 2 people with its 20gauge weapon

That kid is not dangerous, what a nonsense is that! The little boy simply was absolutely helpless - he just wiped off someone (the pregnant woman) which, surely, in his eyes took away a part of his family (dad).

But, who told the little kid what to do with a shotgun? How to handle it to kill? Who trained it? Who DID NOT pay attention if the 11 y/o kid had access to such a deadly weapon?? Ask dad.

In my country, the father of the 11 y/o would go to jail, no doubt about it.

(BTW: I am talking with the experience of beeing a member of a patchwork family. Many problems do occur in such cases - my kids/his kids - bring them together! It's a lifetime work! But, doable!)

That little boy is the loser. His father should pay for it. All his lifetime, not the boys lifetime.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Unstable 9]

Quote

But, who told the little kid what to do with a shotgun? How to handle it to kill? Who trained it? Who DID NOT pay attention if the 11 y/o kid had access to such a deadly weapon?? Ask dad.

Point taken. I agree 100% that his father is very muc to blame and needs to be accountable for his actions. But regardless, he still learned those bad habbits and he still pulled the trigger. Yes, his father taught him, but the point is the boy is still dangerous, very much so. What are you going to do, put that kid in a foster home while his dad goes to jail? He needs to be locked up until he is safe to return to society. Not to punish the child, but obviously to protect those around him.

=========Shaun ==========

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Point taken. I agree 100% that his father is very muc to blame and needs to be accountable for his actions. But regardless, he still learned those bad habbits and he still pulled the trigger. Yes, his father taught him, but the point is the boy is still dangerous, very much so. What are you going to do, put that kid in a foster home while his dad goes to jail? He needs to be locked up until he is safe to return to society. Not to punish the child, but obviously to protect those around him.

But that ends up punishing the child for actions it was not responsible for. It was not the child's fault the father was an incredible asshole that taught him to shoot and gave him access to the gun.

Why punish the child? My view is that a child under 12 is not fully aware of all consequences and is too easily manipulated. The child should not be punished for that.

It is quite clear that he does need some serious mentla help, but there are other ways to give that then to go through a court proceeding first.

[FallingOsh 0]

Quote

That kid is not dangerous, what a nonsense is that!

Well, that's certainly a new take on the situation.

There are tens of thousands of kids and young teenagers who go through tough times; definitely tougher than this kid getting a step mom. They deal with it without murdering someone. Concealing the gun in a blanket shows he knew it was wrong. Intentionally blowing the woman's head off, attempting to get rid of the shell, and the running off to school, again shows he knew what he was doing. I absolutely put a lot of blame on the father. At the very least he should've kept the guns locked up. However, and a big however, absolving the kid from all blame is wrong and claiming he isn't dangerous is just flat out rediculous.

--------------------------------------------------
Stay positive and love your life.

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

Quote

But, who told the little kid what to do with a shotgun? How to handle it to kill? Who trained it? Who DID NOT pay attention if the 11 y/o kid had access to such a deadly weapon?? Ask dad.

Point taken. I agree 100% that his father is very muc to blame and needs to be accountable for his actions. But regardless, he still learned those bad habbits and he still pulled the trigger. Yes, his father taught him, but the point is the boy is still dangerous, very much so. What are you going to do, put that kid in a foster home while his dad goes to jail? He needs to be locked up until he is safe to return to society. Not to punish the child, but obviously to protect those around him.

Take that kid far away from his father, who, obviously completely failed. He and no one else has to be punished.

Foster parents, accompanied by professional mental help, should be the solution for the young one. The older he gets, the more he will understand what once he did - in the age of 11! He needs help right now, not a cell in jail.

Jeez, with eleven he's not even allowed to buy fags! How could you expect him to understand the consequences of what he did??

"He needs to be locked up until he is safe ...."

Who will decide when he's safe?? The inmate next door?

Lock him up and leave him alone in jail? Holy Cow, what kind of thinking is that??

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[crwtom 0]

Quote

Point taken. I agree 100% that his father is very muc to blame and needs to be accountable for his actions. But regardless, he still learned those bad habbits and he still pulled the trigger. Yes, his father taught him, but the point is the boy is still dangerous, very much so. What are you going to do, put that kid in a foster home while his dad goes to jail? He needs to be locked up until he is safe to return to society. Not to punish the child, but obviously to protect those around him.

if you give guns to 8-11 year olds you'd probably find out that
a very large percentage will do something terrible with the gun.

Conclusion 10-20% (or so) of all children are very dangerous
and should therefore be put into jail until they are save again

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Jeez, with eleven he's not even allowed to buy fags!

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

Quote

Jeez, with eleven he's not even allowed to buy fags!

No matter what it is - you're older than eleven and surely will handle it

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[shropshire 0]

Kids CAN be evil .... just remember the fuckers that killed the little toddler James Bulger in the U.K in 1993. There's no way you can put that down to their parents. They are just monsters, pure and simple and should have rotted in prison for all of their days.

clicky

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[b1jercat 0]

I could argue againt that . I got my first rifle when I was 8 and was using it unsupervised when I was 11.
Any child can saftly handle firearms with the proper guidance.

blues Jerry

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

if you give guns to 8-11 year olds you'd probably find out that
a very large percentage will do something terrible with the gun.

Conclusion 10-20% (or so) of all children are very dangerous
and should therefore be put into jail until they are save again

These discussions work better without numbers pulled out of thin air.

[billvon 2,991]

>These discussions work better without numbers pulled out of thin air.

I'd prefer theoreticals to actually giving a bunch of guns to assorted 8-11 year olds to get better data!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

>These discussions work better without numbers pulled out of thin air.

I'd prefer theoreticals to actually giving a bunch of guns to assorted 8-11 year olds to get better data!

That's already been done. Jerry had his. The challenge is in counting how many other kids did.

I suspect far less than 10-20% of them have shot their stepmother while she slept, or something similar. These incidents seem to be 1-2/year, which would be a denominator of no more than 20.

[wmw999 2,446]

The problem is that kids that age can make good decisions most of the time. However, while they are smart, they don't have nearly the data stores that adults have, so they use far fewer points of comparison to decide if something is acceptable. And main source of points of comparison is what they've been exposed to.

So if they've seen a whole lot of TV with people shooting each other, or a whole lot of video games, they're less likely to be self-controlled than if they've gone hunting with their father or mother on a regular basis, or even done watched TV with them (to see what they disapproved of) as much. Really. So their only source of what to approve of is the occasional statement from the parental unit, and their and their friends' judgment.

And their judgment is suspect enough that they're not allowed to drive or vote.

Some kids are likely to be bad even with great parenting. Some kids are likely to be good even with awful parenting. And there's a huge continuum in between, of kids who need their parents, and who need role models.

This is a horrible situation. Even if he has all that therapy, he'll have the guilt for the rest of his life. But to just throw him away now is worse. Really. He never had a chance.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[masterrig 1]

I agree with you! Teach kids all of what you suggested and keep the guns locked-up and the kid doesn't have access to the key. When mom or dad isn't around, kids like to show their friends things and guns top the list. A child, in a household should only have access to guns when their parents take them hunting or out at the range. In both cases recently, where children have killed someone with a gun, the parent(s) should share in the charges against the kid as accessories. In both cases, the fathers showed total irresponsibility in regard to their kids as well as the guns involved.
Both cases will get the anti-gunners going nuts!


Chuck

[LisaH 0]

The father should get time as well as this child.

He turned this little boy into a spoiled, selfish, self-centered brat and taught him how to use the gun. He knew exactly what he was doing when he shot her.

One can only imagine what this kid would do as an adult if he was not getting his way.

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[Krip 2]

Quote

Quote

Point taken. I agree 100% that his father is very muc to blame and needs to be accountable for his actions. But regardless, he still learned those bad habbits and he still pulled the trigger. Yes, his father taught him, but the point is the boy is still dangerous, very much so. What are you going to do, put that kid in a foster home while his dad goes to jail? He needs to be locked up until he is safe to return to society. Not to punish the child, but obviously to protect those around him.

But that ends up punishing the child for actions it was not responsible for. It was not the child's fault the father was an incredible asshole that taught him to shoot and gave him access to the gun.

Why punish the child? My view is that a child under 12 is not fully aware of all consequences and is too easily manipulated. The child should not be punished for that.

It is quite clear that he does need some serious mentla help, but there are other ways to give that then to go through a court proceeding first.

Dad will have to live with the tragic results of leaving the gun where the kid could get to it for the rest of his life. IMO he's been punished enough.

OTOH the 11 year old Killer needs to be punished to the full extent of the law. He didn't make a mistake he made a concious decision to kill someone. Then was cold hearted enough to go to school after he did the deed.

If the courts feel sorry for poor little Johnny who killed his mom in her sleep with the blaast of a shot gun to the back of her head and give the little monster a pat on the head, counseling and then a walk.

What kind of a message are we sending to all the other little johnny's that don't like someone.

If I'm a 11 yo kid i can shoot, stab, strangle, drown, murder anyone I don't like and get away with it because i'm just a confused misunderstood kid just like johnny
The poor victim and he unborn child can't be helped but sending the murder to jail for life and makeing him the poster child of what happens when a child kills soneone with malice.

Here's a pic of johnny in Jail at 15yo, 20yo , 40yo, 60yo.

Kids for the next 60 years can see johnny's pics and be taught the lesson johnny learned at a very high price. If you don't want to end up like Johnny don't do what he did.

R.I.P.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>These discussions work better without numbers pulled out of thin air.

I'd prefer theoreticals to actually giving a bunch of guns to assorted 8-11 year olds to get better data!

It's been done since the founding of the country - it's the RECENT generations that can't seem to handle the responsibility.

Thank you SO much, Dr. Spock... fucking idiot

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706