BikerBabe 0 #1 February 23, 2009 If you live in the southwest, i'm sure you've seen it. Maybe even elsewhere, with other cultural or ethnic groups...i will stick to my local example for now. You drive to work in the morning, and every day, at the same spot, there is a large group of hispanic men standing around, waiting to be hired as day labor. You know with about 99.9% certainty that they are not in this country legally, nor do they have regular jobs. Who hires them? Could be anyone. The local general contractor, a gardening service, Joe Schmoe who needs his house painted and doesn't want to do it himself. How much do people pay them? who knows, it probably depends on the type of work to be done. Obviously, this works for them and they take what they can get. The poll above DOES have relevance, as my husband and i found ourselves in a situation today where the question arose: do we hire a couple of them for the day? what are our options here? I don't want to influence this, so i'll post the situation a bit later. As for now...what do you think about it?Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,995 #2 February 23, 2009 We needed some work done in the yard, and I did _not_ want to hire illegal immigrants. So we got a licensed contractor. Told him what we wanted done. The next day I think he drove down to the corner and got a bunch of illegal immigrants to do the work. When I was talking to my neighbor about it later (who himself is an Italian immigrant) he said "why would you pay a contractor? Just go to Home Depot and get some Mexicans!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #3 February 23, 2009 QuoteIf you live in the southwest, i'm sure you've seen it. Maybe even elsewhere, with other cultural or ethnic groups...i will stick to my local example for now. You drive to work in the morning, and every day, at the same spot, there is a large group of hispanic men standing around, waiting to be hired as day labor. You know with about 99.9% certainty that they are not in this country legally, nor do they have regular jobs. I'm quite certain that many of them are not illegal aliens, just not able to get a regular job (true of nearly 8% of Californians right now) The guy who did Super Size Me spent a month doing day work for another documentary. That said, this day work is cash based, so it is illegal with regards to tax/payroll issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #4 February 23, 2009 Quote I'm quite certain that many of them are not illegal aliens, just not able to get a regular job (true of nearly 8% of Californians right now) The guy who did Super Size Me spent a month doing day work for another documentary. That said, this day work is cash based, so it is illegal with regards to tax/payroll issues. Not for the buyer. You don't have to report what you as an individual pay to independant contractors. If I see a bunch of guys with garden tools and a pickup, I can hire them to level my flagstone walk way at a time of their chosing. They determine when to work, how to do the work, and provide their tools so they're clearly independant contractors. You don't have to deal with FICA or medicare when total cash wages paid to a household employee are less than $1600 in a year and unemployment taxes for wages under $1000. The workers should be reporting their total wages to the IRS plus relevant sate and local tax authorities. They should pay appropriate self employment taxes too. None of that's my problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #5 February 23, 2009 QuoteAs for now...what do you think about it? Although unskilled labor isn't worth $10 an hour, it's hard to find white people who aren't student aged (they might be over on student visas that don't let them work, and I've personally known more Canadians, Australians, and Europeans who were working illegally than Mexicans) willing to do it on short notice without going through some one else who slaps their markup on top and more than doubles the price to you. I also haven't been satisfied with the white workers who sit around and do little when you're not watching them that just expect to get paid at the end of the day with one exception (The guy I hired with his own handyman service worked _hard_ 42 hours straight alongside my wife and I to finish a home for sale). So I hire those guys when I need manual labor. When my great grandparents came over everyone except the Chinese were welcome. I can't come up with good reasons why it should be different now apart from allowing in the Chinese now that we as a nation are allegedly less racist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #6 February 23, 2009 A lot of them will be ex-bankers and car workers - support the poor.... you may need their help on your way down!!!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #7 February 23, 2009 hehe. well, the story was: my husband and his brother went back to NM this weekend and packed up all the rest of the stuff we had left in the house we just sold. They were planning on spending the day unloading said stuff into the storage unit here. My brother-in-law hurt his back. I can't really help because i'm currently sitting on a torn ACL/MCL/meniscus. The rental truck was due back before 5 pm today, and it needed to be unloaded. Unlike Bill's case, it was pretty obvious we wouldn't be able to find a reputable "contractor" or mover in time. So we hired them. Two guys, 3 hours of work, $40 each. Plus i made them sandwiches and iced tea. Now, i chose the "i'd use them in an emergency" option, because that's what we did. The issue comes, of course, in the legality of the hiring, the legality of their residency, and the moral issues of helping the poor vs. standing behind the principles of immigration law, etc. I have to admit, even though we hired them for the day, i didn't feel 100% comfortable doing so, mainly because of the legal and moral dilemmas it presented. Which is why i posted in SC, of course! fire away! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 February 23, 2009 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #9 February 23, 2009 QuoteA lot of them will be ex-bankers and car workers - support the poor.... you may need their help on your way down!!!! Ex bankers aren't worth $10/hour. They'll just destroy your assets and demand a huge bonus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm951 0 #10 February 24, 2009 Quote hehe. well, the story was: my husband and his brother went back to NM this weekend and packed up all the rest of the stuff we had left in the house we just sold. They were planning on spending the day unloading said stuff into the storage unit here. My brother-in-law hurt his back. I can't really help because i'm currently sitting on a torn ACL/MCL/meniscus. The rental truck was due back before 5 pm today, and it needed to be unloaded. Unlike Bill's case, it was pretty obvious we wouldn't be able to find a reputable "contractor" or mover in time. So we hired them. Two guys, 3 hours of work, $40 each. Plus i made them sandwiches and iced tea. Now, i chose the "i'd use them in an emergency" option, because that's what we did. The issue comes, of course, in the legality of the hiring, the legality of their residency, and the moral issues of helping the poor vs. standing behind the principles of immigration law, etc. I have to admit, even though we hired them for the day, i didn't feel 100% comfortable doing so, mainly because of the legal and moral dilemmas it presented. Which is why i posted in SC, of course! fire away! Being a contractor, I can see hiring these guys for something like that. If the job required any real skill, like say, plumbing, wiring, carpentry, cabinetry, well, you'll get what you pay for. Further to the point, there are jobs that citizens would be glad to do but when the illegals are depressing the market rates for labor prices, how can a citizen, who pays taxes, FICA, etc even hope to compete? I often see these guys on jobsites, the only real upside I see to it is getting to fix the stuff they screwed up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #11 February 24, 2009 QuoteI also haven't been satisfied with the white workers Does the job involve any kind of jumping? If so, that's your problem right there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #12 February 24, 2009 QuoteQuote That said, this day work is cash based, so it is illegal with regards to tax/payroll issues. Not for the buyer. You don't have to report what you as an individual pay to independant contractors. If I see a bunch of guys with garden tools and a pickup, I can hire them to level my flagstone walk way at a time of their chosing. They determine when to work, how to do the work, and provide their tools so they're clearly independant contractors. You don't have to deal with FICA or medicare when total cash wages paid to a household employee are less than $1600 in a year and unemployment taxes for wages under $1000. The workers should be reporting their total wages to the IRS plus relevant sate and local tax authorities. They should pay appropriate self employment taxes too. None of that's my problem. Good information to add. Does that mean a contractor could remain in compliance just by rotating around who is picked to stay under $1600? And of course, is that really done, or would you find the guys who believe are the upper crust and use them as much as possible? What about the requirements to check for citizenship? Does that not apply to this kind of short term employ as 1099s? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #13 February 24, 2009 Quote Being a contractor, I can see hiring these guys for something like that. If the job required any real skill, like say, plumbing, wiring, carpentry, cabinetry, well, you'll get what you pay for. Further to the point, there are jobs that citizens would be glad to do but when the illegals are depressing the market rates for labor prices, how can a citizen, who pays taxes, FICA, etc even hope to compete? I often see these guys on jobsites, the only real upside I see to it is getting to fix the stuff they screwed up. Which is why we didn't lowball them. $40 for 3 hours isn't bad...plus benefits (if you count free lunch as benefits )Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #14 February 24, 2009 Quote Good information to add. Does that mean a contractor could remain in compliance just by rotating around who is picked to stay under $1600? No, businesses have more rules to follow than people hiring household help. Anything over $600 to an independant contractor requires a 1099-misc. I don't think there are witholding exemptions for a minimum amount. Quote What about the requirements to check for citizenship? Does that not apply to this kind of short term employ as 1099s? 1099-misc recipients get a form W-9 on which to provide their legal entity's tax-id. As a contractor I provided the federal employer identification number assigned to my LLC which was filing taxes as an S-corp. No ID checks or citizenship verification was performed. The IRS tends to get upset when people hire employees but try to treat them as contractors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #15 February 24, 2009 I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that as of a few years ago (when I still lived there), in the State of California, an independent contractor had to carry worker's comp. (which was a way for the State to try and clamp down on the "anyone can be an independent contractor" notion). In addition, I believe the State of California also had an anti dead-beat parents law, requiring any payments made TO an independent contractor had to be reported within 30 days (can't remember if the $600 threshold applied or not). "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #16 February 25, 2009 There's an old saying; "Let your conscience be your guide!" Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #17 February 25, 2009 The reality is i was working illegally landscaping. Wonder if me being an English speaking white guy makes that more OK 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hwt 0 #18 February 25, 2009 I would go to one of the local job services.There are plenty of them. they pay the workman's compensation insurance and pay all taxes.And they are responsible for checking on their workers legitimacy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #19 February 25, 2009 Absolutely NOT! But, it probably helped. I've worked for an illegal. I had been inspecting & re-packing a jumper's rig, for about three years. Even ordered him new gear! He asked me one day, how I felt about 'illegals'. I told him I didn't! That's when he 'fessed-up to being one. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #20 February 25, 2009 Quote The reality is i was working illegally landscaping. Wonder if me being an English speaking white guy makes that more OK I don't care if they're purple or speak Swahili, i was using a local example. hell, maybe in Minnesota there's illegal scandinavians standing on the corner. I don't know, and it doesn't matter. What is pertinent to the question is if they are illegal or not. It seems the majority of folks think it's not ok, no matter your ethnicity.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #21 February 25, 2009 Meh, i just tell folks i was late on the boat when their ancestors caught it.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
