marks2065 0 #226 March 10, 2009 QuoteHow many illegal immigrants are collecting social security? How does that compare with the number who are paying in to social security? Wendy W. Quotewho cares how many, they are illegal, therefore not elligable to collect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #227 March 10, 2009 How much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? More than the cost of the benefits that they're receiving now? Kind of silly. More than the cost of the money than they're paying into Social Security now? Note that even if an illegal alien claims 10 dependents for IRS purposes, they still pay for Social Security, and the amount in the aggregate isn't inconsequential. Is it about greatest benefit, or about making sure that you appropriately punish the wrongdoers? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #228 March 10, 2009 QuoteHow much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? More than the cost of the benefits that they're receiving now? Kind of silly. More than the cost of the money than they're paying into Social Security now? Note that even if an illegal alien claims 10 dependents for IRS purposes, they still pay for Social Security, and the amount in the aggregate isn't inconsequential. Is it about greatest benefit, or about making sure that you appropriately punish the wrongdoers? Wendy W. Quoteboth Legal taxpaying americans deserve the best possible. Illegal aliens deserve nothing. What illegal imagration costs us far outways any benifits they may be paying. Illegal imagration strains every budget in our social service programs and that needs to stop, and the savings should go to the legal taxpaying americans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #229 March 10, 2009 Quote11.24%>10% Even 10.02% >10%. 7% is nearly more than 10%If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #230 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteHow much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? More than the cost of the benefits that they're receiving now? Kind of silly. More than the cost of the money than they're paying into Social Security now? Note that even if an illegal alien claims 10 dependents for IRS purposes, they still pay for Social Security, and the amount in the aggregate isn't inconsequential. Is it about greatest benefit, or about making sure that you appropriately punish the wrongdoers? Wendy W. Quoteboth Legal taxpaying americans deserve the best possible. Illegal aliens deserve nothing. What illegal imagration costs us far outways any benifits they may be paying. Illegal imagration strains every budget in our social service programs and that needs to stop, and the savings should go to the legal taxpaying americans. Answer Wendy's question: How much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits?If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #231 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteHow much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? More than the cost of the benefits that they're receiving now? Kind of silly. More than the cost of the money than they're paying into Social Security now? Note that even if an illegal alien claims 10 dependents for IRS purposes, they still pay for Social Security, and the amount in the aggregate isn't inconsequential. Is it about greatest benefit, or about making sure that you appropriately punish the wrongdoers? Wendy W. Quoteboth Legal taxpaying americans deserve the best possible. Illegal aliens deserve nothing. What illegal imagration costs us far outways any benifits they may be paying. Illegal imagration strains every budget in our social service programs and that needs to stop, and the savings should go to the legal taxpaying americans. Answer Wendy's question: How much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? Quotewouldn't need to spend anything, the savings would pay for the costs, and the future savings would either increase our benifits or reduce our costs to the program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #232 March 10, 2009 QuoteWhat illegal imagration costs us far outways any benifits they may be paying. That statement has yet to be demonstrated to be true or false by either side of the argument. It is hypothesis, not established fact.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #233 March 10, 2009 Quotewouldn't need to spend anything, the savings would pay for the costs, and the future savings would either increase our benifits or reduce our costs to the program. Have you any evidence to support that assertion?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #234 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuotewouldn't need to spend anything, the savings would pay for the costs, and the future savings would either increase our benifits or reduce our costs to the program. Have you any evidence to support that assertion? QuoteIllegal imigration cost california over 20 billion last year in welfare and medical care. not to mention the other things like the criminal and social sercurity systems. I'm sure ther would be enough money to pay for the program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #235 March 10, 2009 QuoteI'm sure ther would be enough money to pay for the program. Well, as long as you are sure, I guess there's no need to consult with reasonable people who might rely on evidence to support their assertions. How much in taxes do you think those illegal immigrants paid into the system. Surely you're not naive enough to believe that they don't pay taxes, right?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #236 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuote>The reason soso security is viable for 30 years is because they don't give you enough to live. Correct. Nor should they. It should not serve as someone's retirement; it should serve as a safety net that can keep them alive if all else fails. Yes, if you're on social security you might have to move back into the kid's house, or share a rental with 3 other people. You might have to sell the bigscreen TV. If you don't like that - well, should have invested better. At least you won't starve. Quotebut if that money was investeds for me i would do better at retirement. also I wouldn't be paying for someone elses lack of self control. There are now millions of people, all of whom thought they were as smart as you think you are, who have lost 50% or more of their retirement savings in the last 6 months of Bush's presidency. And THAT is the reason we need some sort of insurance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Capt.Slog 0 #237 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? More than the cost of the benefits that they're receiving now? Kind of silly. More than the cost of the money than they're paying into Social Security now? Note that even if an illegal alien claims 10 dependents for IRS purposes, they still pay for Social Security, and the amount in the aggregate isn't inconsequential. Is it about greatest benefit, or about making sure that you appropriately punish the wrongdoers? Wendy W. Quoteboth Legal taxpaying americans deserve the best possible. Illegal aliens deserve nothing. What illegal imagration costs us far outways any benifits they may be paying. Illegal imagration strains every budget in our social service programs and that needs to stop, and the savings should go to the legal taxpaying americans. Answer Wendy's question: How much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? Quotewouldn't need to spend anything, the savings would pay for the costs, and the future savings would either increase our benifits or reduce our costs to the program. YOUR speculation is not an answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #238 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? More than the cost of the benefits that they're receiving now? Kind of silly. More than the cost of the money than they're paying into Social Security now? Note that even if an illegal alien claims 10 dependents for IRS purposes, they still pay for Social Security, and the amount in the aggregate isn't inconsequential. Is it about greatest benefit, or about making sure that you appropriately punish the wrongdoers? Wendy W. Quoteboth Legal taxpaying americans deserve the best possible. Illegal aliens deserve nothing. What illegal imagration costs us far outways any benifits they may be paying. Illegal imagration strains every budget in our social service programs and that needs to stop, and the savings should go to the legal taxpaying americans. Answer Wendy's question: How much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? Quotewouldn't need to spend anything, the savings would pay for the costs, and the future savings would either increase our benifits or reduce our costs to the program. YOUR speculation is not an answer. How much would it cost to make someone show legal status before they send a check? no exact figures needed. you show proof you are legal and then you get a check. were is the cost increase you are looking for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #239 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteI'm sure ther would be enough money to pay for the program. Well, as long as you are sure, I guess there's no need to consult with reasonable people who might rely on evidence to support their assertions. How much in taxes do you think those illegal immigrants paid into the system. Surely you're not naive enough to believe that they don't pay taxes, right? Quotewe wouldn't loose any tax revenue, the unemployed would move into the jobs vacated by the illegals and that would lower unemployment and that would save on welfare and enemployment benifits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #240 March 10, 2009 Quotewe wouldn't loose any tax revenue, the unemployed would move into the jobs vacated by the illegals and that would lower unemployment and that would save on welfare and enemployment benifits. Again, that's a naive view. Some undocumented workers pay income taxes each pay period by using someone else's social security number (with employers assistance), but cannot collect the refund for their over payments, since they lack sufficient documentation. Likewise, some undocumented workers pay into Social Security, but lack the documentation to receive any benefits. The same goes for unemployment insurance. Undocumented workers also pay sales tax on money they spend, but do not have access to all of the benefits that they are paying for with those taxes. In other words, in some ways, undocumented workers pay more into the system than they receive. In other ways, they receive more than they pay. Whether or not they provide a net credit or net debit to the local, state and federal revenue books is a topic of debate. Quite simply, no one knows for sure, due to the fact that they are undocumented. If replaced by legal, documented workers, the only thing known with certainty is that benefits paid for will be collected. There won't be money collected for Social Security taxes that can be expected to never be claimed in benefits. Any extra income taxes paid will be claimed for a refund with a filed tax return. All the while, the benefits that the undocumented immigrants were receiving as workers will be still be received by the now unemployed undocumented immigrants.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffwhite 0 #241 March 10, 2009 I've not heard of anyone being denied their SocSec payments, and I believe the system is solvent for some 30+ years even if no changes are made. _________________________________________________ Yes Marks, some believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy as well.The thing with Social Security is that the money isn't put into a *locked box*. It's been put into and spent along with the rest of the general fund. Thus its solvency is dependant on future taxes being collected or borrowing to occur sufficient to make todays and future payments. Blues, Cliff 2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks2065 0 #242 March 10, 2009 Quote I've not heard of anyone being denied their SocSec payments, and I believe the system is solvent for some 30+ years even if no changes are made. _________________________________________________ Yes Marks, some believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy as well.The thing with Social Security is that the money isn't put into a *locked box*. It's been put into and spent along with the rest of the general fund. Thus its solvency is dependant on future taxes being collected or borrowing to occur sufficient to make todays and future payments. Blues, Cliff Quote i don't believe soso security will be there for me. What you quoted was a reply to my thoughts not what I said Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,452 #243 March 11, 2009 QuoteHow much would it cost to make someone show legal status before they send a check? no exact figures needed. you show proof you are legal and then you get a check. were is the cost increase you are looking for?There's already a prevention in place for that. Go to their website and see. It's just not 100% effective. The costs include: - a place to check the ID (it's the SS office) - the people to check the ID that's presented - the people to decide what IDs are legal - the people to research when the ID might be faked (after all, it also might not be) - the people to count the effectiveness of all these measures So if what they already have isn't enough, what else would help? And would the cost be more than the benefit? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 10 of 10 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Capt.Slog 0 #237 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? More than the cost of the benefits that they're receiving now? Kind of silly. More than the cost of the money than they're paying into Social Security now? Note that even if an illegal alien claims 10 dependents for IRS purposes, they still pay for Social Security, and the amount in the aggregate isn't inconsequential. Is it about greatest benefit, or about making sure that you appropriately punish the wrongdoers? Wendy W. Quoteboth Legal taxpaying americans deserve the best possible. Illegal aliens deserve nothing. What illegal imagration costs us far outways any benifits they may be paying. Illegal imagration strains every budget in our social service programs and that needs to stop, and the savings should go to the legal taxpaying americans. Answer Wendy's question: How much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? Quotewouldn't need to spend anything, the savings would pay for the costs, and the future savings would either increase our benifits or reduce our costs to the program. YOUR speculation is not an answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #238 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? More than the cost of the benefits that they're receiving now? Kind of silly. More than the cost of the money than they're paying into Social Security now? Note that even if an illegal alien claims 10 dependents for IRS purposes, they still pay for Social Security, and the amount in the aggregate isn't inconsequential. Is it about greatest benefit, or about making sure that you appropriately punish the wrongdoers? Wendy W. Quoteboth Legal taxpaying americans deserve the best possible. Illegal aliens deserve nothing. What illegal imagration costs us far outways any benifits they may be paying. Illegal imagration strains every budget in our social service programs and that needs to stop, and the savings should go to the legal taxpaying americans. Answer Wendy's question: How much are you willing to spend to ensure that not a single illegal alien receives benefits? Quotewouldn't need to spend anything, the savings would pay for the costs, and the future savings would either increase our benifits or reduce our costs to the program. YOUR speculation is not an answer. How much would it cost to make someone show legal status before they send a check? no exact figures needed. you show proof you are legal and then you get a check. were is the cost increase you are looking for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #239 March 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteI'm sure ther would be enough money to pay for the program. Well, as long as you are sure, I guess there's no need to consult with reasonable people who might rely on evidence to support their assertions. How much in taxes do you think those illegal immigrants paid into the system. Surely you're not naive enough to believe that they don't pay taxes, right? Quotewe wouldn't loose any tax revenue, the unemployed would move into the jobs vacated by the illegals and that would lower unemployment and that would save on welfare and enemployment benifits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #240 March 10, 2009 Quotewe wouldn't loose any tax revenue, the unemployed would move into the jobs vacated by the illegals and that would lower unemployment and that would save on welfare and enemployment benifits. Again, that's a naive view. Some undocumented workers pay income taxes each pay period by using someone else's social security number (with employers assistance), but cannot collect the refund for their over payments, since they lack sufficient documentation. Likewise, some undocumented workers pay into Social Security, but lack the documentation to receive any benefits. The same goes for unemployment insurance. Undocumented workers also pay sales tax on money they spend, but do not have access to all of the benefits that they are paying for with those taxes. In other words, in some ways, undocumented workers pay more into the system than they receive. In other ways, they receive more than they pay. Whether or not they provide a net credit or net debit to the local, state and federal revenue books is a topic of debate. Quite simply, no one knows for sure, due to the fact that they are undocumented. If replaced by legal, documented workers, the only thing known with certainty is that benefits paid for will be collected. There won't be money collected for Social Security taxes that can be expected to never be claimed in benefits. Any extra income taxes paid will be claimed for a refund with a filed tax return. All the while, the benefits that the undocumented immigrants were receiving as workers will be still be received by the now unemployed undocumented immigrants.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #241 March 10, 2009 I've not heard of anyone being denied their SocSec payments, and I believe the system is solvent for some 30+ years even if no changes are made. _________________________________________________ Yes Marks, some believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy as well.The thing with Social Security is that the money isn't put into a *locked box*. It's been put into and spent along with the rest of the general fund. Thus its solvency is dependant on future taxes being collected or borrowing to occur sufficient to make todays and future payments. Blues, Cliff 2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #242 March 10, 2009 Quote I've not heard of anyone being denied their SocSec payments, and I believe the system is solvent for some 30+ years even if no changes are made. _________________________________________________ Yes Marks, some believe in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy as well.The thing with Social Security is that the money isn't put into a *locked box*. It's been put into and spent along with the rest of the general fund. Thus its solvency is dependant on future taxes being collected or borrowing to occur sufficient to make todays and future payments. Blues, Cliff Quote i don't believe soso security will be there for me. What you quoted was a reply to my thoughts not what I said Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #243 March 11, 2009 QuoteHow much would it cost to make someone show legal status before they send a check? no exact figures needed. you show proof you are legal and then you get a check. were is the cost increase you are looking for?There's already a prevention in place for that. Go to their website and see. It's just not 100% effective. The costs include: - a place to check the ID (it's the SS office) - the people to check the ID that's presented - the people to decide what IDs are legal - the people to research when the ID might be faked (after all, it also might not be) - the people to count the effectiveness of all these measures So if what they already have isn't enough, what else would help? And would the cost be more than the benefit? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
