quade 4
JohnRich 4
http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php
Therein, you'll see that the the number of combinations and permutations offered, varying in color, barrel length and caliber, numbers 18 models.
They have to pay $200 to test each of those for sale in California, so for these XD handguns alone, to cover all models, will cost $3,600. Per year. Even though nothing is different between the different versions regarding safety.
The different colors have nothing to do with different metals. They are all polymer frame, steel slide. The colors are just a metal coating to resist rust (called Melonite), or with the lack of a coating, bare stainless steel.
So, color has nothing to do with any indication of the usage of different metals. All you anti-gun folks are just barking up at an empty tree, where there never was a raccoon in the first place. You gun-o-phobes do like to run around in packs and bark, making much ado about nothing. But it's fun to watch how you grasp at a theory, accept it as a fact, and then go on the rampage against it, without bothering to do any research first. Woof!
Therefore, testing a green .45 model should suffice to also qualify the black, brown and stainless versions. Only the paint, or lack thereof, is different.
You don't crash test every paint color on one particular model of a new car. It's a waste of time because the paint isn't relevant to the safety or reliability. And so it is with these handguns.
quade 4
QuoteYou don't crash test every paint color on one particular model of a new car. It's a waste of time because the paint isn't relevant to the safety or reliability. And so it is with these handguns.
I'm not talking about paint. I'm talking about METAL.
The Bi-Tone model's slide is made from "Forged Stainless Steel" while the Black model is made from "Forged Steel".
While I understand you may think that is a small difference, let me assure you that "stainless steel" is a different material than "steel."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel
Again, if a company made two cars identical in every way except one was made of "steel" and the other of "stainless steel" they would crash test entirely differently.
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
mnealtx 0
QuoteOh, because you were going on and on about how once the weapons passes the test all the manufacturer has to do to keep it on the list was pay $200 per year.
That is correct.
QuoteSince you can't prove it was previously on the list, that entire batch of words you wrote can get shit canned from this discussion. Great.
Who said I was speaking to only this single model??? It only sparked the discussion of Cali's bogus testing.
Nice way to throw out what you can't dispute, though.
QuoteHow is hell can anyone know if it passes the test if it's not subjected to the test?
Because it's the INTERNAL PARTS (that are the SAME for carbon steel or stainless steel slides) that are going to determine if the firing pin falls or not. The only area in which the slide material is going to come into play is during a catastrophic failure of the barrel (which is the same material between models). A forged steel and a stainless slide would withstand a barrel rupture with a similar amount of damage.
QuoteI would completely agree with you IF we were only talking about color, but were not. We're talking about two different materials. That's not the same.
I just looked up the pistol that the lady has and compared it to similar models that ARE on the approved list. Both the XD 9611 (which is on the list) and the XD 9613 (which is not) have forged steel, melonite coated slides. The 9611 has a black melonite coating and the 9613 has a chrome melonite coating.
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Tf15 0
Quote
Because it's the INTERNAL PARTS (that are the SAME for carbon steel or stainless steel slides) that are going to determine if the firing pin falls or not. The only area in which the slide material is going to come into play is during a catastrophic failure of the barrel (which is the same material between models). A forged steel and a stainless slide would withstand a barrel rupture with a similar amount of damage.
.
What are your credentials in metallurgy for making that claim? The mechanical propertis of different grades of steels are very different, and stainless is significantly different than carbon steel or low alloy steel or tool steel.
You will also find that different coatings give different coefficients of friction, meaning any moving parts will behave differently.
Three times is enemy action
QuoteYou can download the Springfield XD handgun catalog here:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php
Therein, you'll see that the the number of combinations and permutations offered, varying in color, barrel length and caliber, numbers 18 models.
They have to pay $200 to test each of those for sale in California, so for these XD handguns alone, to cover all models, will cost $3,600. Per year. Even though nothing is different between the different versions regarding safety.
The different colors have nothing to do with different metals. They are all polymer frame, steel slide. The colors are just a metal coating to resist rust (called Melonite), or with the lack of a coating, bare stainless steel.
So, color has nothing to do with any indication of the usage of different metals. All you anti-gun folks are just barking up at an empty tree, where there never was a raccoon in the first place. You gun-o-phobes do like to run around in packs and bark, making much ado about nothing. But it's fun to watch how you grasp at a theory, accept it as a fact, and then go on the rampage against it, without bothering to do any research first. Woof!
Therefore, testing a green .45 model should suffice to also qualify the black, brown and stainless versions. Only the paint, or lack thereof, is different.
You don't crash test every paint color on one particular model of a new car. It's a waste of time because the paint isn't relevant to the safety or reliability. And so it is with these handguns.
If the crumple zone of the red car was made of stainless steel and of the blue one was mild steel they certainly WOULD both require crash testing, and it would cost a lot more than $200.
Your OP was highly misleading and your poll inappropriate.
Quote
I'm saying that your metallurgical argument is bullshit, based on the inclusion of weapons like the above. Cali doesn't give a shit if the weapon is made of cast zinc (bryco), so long as it fires 100 rounds and passes a drop test.
.
How do you know if that combination passes the test if that particular combination hasn't been tested? Your arguments are getting increasingly shrill and increasingly BS.
piper17 1
Color of the firearm, revolver versus pistol, number of rounds in the magazine of the pistol, hollow-point versus ball ammunition...all of this is load of bunk. The thrust of those politicians controlling the district (as well as those of California and other anti-gun locations) is they don't want citizens to have the ability to defend themselves from the criminal residents in this very dangerous city.
QuoteQuote
I'm saying that your metallurgical argument is bullshit, based on the inclusion of weapons like the above. Cali doesn't give a shit if the weapon is made of cast zinc (bryco), so long as it fires 100 rounds and passes a drop test.
.
How do you know if that combination passes the test if that particular combination hasn't been tested? Your arguments are getting increasingly shrill and increasingly BS.
The fact that the silver slide is made out of stainless steel has absolutely nothing to do with why it isn't legal in CA. It's thanks to new requirements for loaded chamber indicators that are amibiguous enough CA can essentially not allow ANY new handguns to be sold within the state.
The same weapon in .40 as well as 9mm IS legal in CA.
QuoteQuoteQuoteIn CA the stainless steel slide does not have a loaded chamber indicator required by CA law. Likely it's the same with D.C.
The DC law is based on the California list. The article and JR are being deceptive by focusing on the "color" of the part in question.
The Cali list is a crock of crap - a gun that is safe one year doesn't suddenly become unsafe because the manufacturer didn't pay the $200 / model danegeld.
DC is going to get their ass handed to them again, if they're not careful.
Now if we can just get the CA DOJ to chew on a piece of their own ass....
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuote
Because it's the INTERNAL PARTS (that are the SAME for carbon steel or stainless steel slides) that are going to determine if the firing pin falls or not. The only area in which the slide material is going to come into play is during a catastrophic failure of the barrel (which is the same material between models). A forged steel and a stainless slide would withstand a barrel rupture with a similar amount of damage.
.
What are your credentials in metallurgy for making that claim? The mechanical propertis of different grades of steels are very different, and stainless is significantly different than carbon steel or low alloy steel or tool steel.
You will also find that different coatings give different coefficients of friction, meaning any moving parts will behave differently.
What are your credentials in firearms design, since we're playing silly-ass appeal to authority games?
Explain how the slide material affects the INTERNAL WORKINGS of the pistol, since THAT is what is going to affect a drop test.
Explain how the slide material affects THE BARREL of the pistol, since THAT is what is gong to affect a firing test.
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuote
I'm saying that your metallurgical argument is bullshit, based on the inclusion of weapons like the above. Cali doesn't give a shit if the weapon is made of cast zinc (bryco), so long as it fires 100 rounds and passes a drop test.
.
How do you know if that combination passes the test if that particular combination hasn't been tested? Your arguments are getting increasingly shrill and increasingly BS.
Not my fault if you can't understand the material.
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteQuoteQuote
I'm saying that your metallurgical argument is bullshit, based on the inclusion of weapons like the above. Cali doesn't give a shit if the weapon is made of cast zinc (bryco), so long as it fires 100 rounds and passes a drop test.
.
How do you know if that combination passes the test if that particular combination hasn't been tested? Your arguments are getting increasingly shrill and increasingly BS.
Not my fault if you can't understand the material.
Are you now claiming that this combination HAS been tested?
QuoteQuoteQuote
Because it's the INTERNAL PARTS (that are the SAME for carbon steel or stainless steel slides) that are going to determine if the firing pin falls or not. The only area in which the slide material is going to come into play is during a catastrophic failure of the barrel (which is the same material between models). A forged steel and a stainless slide would withstand a barrel rupture with a similar amount of damage.
.
What are your credentials in metallurgy for making that claim? The mechanical propertis of different grades of steels are very different, and stainless is significantly different than carbon steel or low alloy steel or tool steel.
You will also find that different coatings give different coefficients of friction, meaning any moving parts will behave differently.
What are your credentials in firearms design, since we're playing silly-ass appeal to authority games?
Explain how the slide material affects the INTERNAL WORKINGS of the pistol, since THAT is what is going to affect a drop test.
Explain how the slide material affects THE BARREL of the pistol, since THAT is what is gong to affect a firing test.
YOU wrote:
"A forged steel and a stainless slide would withstand a barrel rupture with a similar amount of damage."
It seems to me that this statement of yours does indeed require detailed knowledge of ferrous metallurgy, and I'm sure you would have announced it to us if you had such knowledge.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
Because it's the INTERNAL PARTS (that are the SAME for carbon steel or stainless steel slides) that are going to determine if the firing pin falls or not. The only area in which the slide material is going to come into play is during a catastrophic failure of the barrel (which is the same material between models). A forged steel and a stainless slide would withstand a barrel rupture with a similar amount of damage.
.
What are your credentials in metallurgy for making that claim? The mechanical propertis of different grades of steels are very different, and stainless is significantly different than carbon steel or low alloy steel or tool steel.
You will also find that different coatings give different coefficients of friction, meaning any moving parts will behave differently.
What are your credentials in firearms design, since we're playing silly-ass appeal to authority games?
Explain how the slide material affects the INTERNAL WORKINGS of the pistol, since THAT is what is going to affect a drop test.
Explain how the slide material affects THE BARREL of the pistol, since THAT is what is gong to affect a firing test.
YOU wrote:
"A forged steel and a stainless slide would withstand a barrel rupture with a similar amount of damage."
It seems to me that this statement of yours does indeed require detailed knowledge of ferrous metallurgy, and I'm sure you would have announced it to us if you had such knowledge.
GIYF
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
I'm saying that your metallurgical argument is bullshit, based on the inclusion of weapons like the above. Cali doesn't give a shit if the weapon is made of cast zinc (bryco), so long as it fires 100 rounds and passes a drop test.
.
How do you know if that combination passes the test if that particular combination hasn't been tested? Your arguments are getting increasingly shrill and increasingly BS.
Not my fault if you can't understand the material.
Are you now claiming that this combination HAS been tested?
Yes, a polymer frame and forged steel slide combination has been tested multiple times - reread my posts above.
Any more inane questions?
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteYou can download the Springfield XD handgun catalog here:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php
Therein, you'll see that the the number of combinations and permutations offered, varying in color, barrel length and caliber, numbers 18 models.
They have to pay $200 to test each of those for sale in California, so for these XD handguns alone, to cover all models, will cost $3,600. Per year. Even though nothing is different between the different versions regarding safety.
The different colors have nothing to do with different metals. They are all polymer frame, steel slide. The colors are just a metal coating to resist rust (called Melonite), or with the lack of a coating, bare stainless steel.
So, color has nothing to do with any indication of the usage of different metals. All you anti-gun folks are just barking up at an empty tree, where there never was a raccoon in the first place. You gun-o-phobes do like to run around in packs and bark, making much ado about nothing. But it's fun to watch how you grasp at a theory, accept it as a fact, and then go on the rampage against it, without bothering to do any research first. Woof!
Therefore, testing a green .45 model should suffice to also qualify the black, brown and stainless versions. Only the paint, or lack thereof, is different.
You don't crash test every paint color on one particular model of a new car. It's a waste of time because the paint isn't relevant to the safety or reliability. And so it is with these handguns.
If the crumple zone of the red car was made of stainless steel and of the blue one was mild steel they certainly WOULD both require crash testing, and it would cost a lot more than $200.
Your OP was highly misleading and your poll inappropriate.
What part of "the slides are the same material and only the melonite coating is a different color" did you not understand?
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Krip 2
voted yes
Member of SAPS
Shooters against pink shit.
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