religious belief dropping in USA

[shropshire 0]

Nope, doesn't 'bug' me it confuses me.

As an engineer, it's the total lack of evidence. I hear/read stating stuff as fact, when it just can't be.

Oh well, here we go again.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Coreece 190]

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Oh well, here we go again.

I know...it really sucks doesn't it.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[shropshire 0]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[georgerussia 0]

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I think it is impossible to actually have an accurate reliable study on the subject...

No, it is not impossible, and that has been done was done. Since you didn't provide any explanation, I assume that you probably mentioned that it is impossible to provide a study you would agree with (unless the numbers there show what you want to see, of course).

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I believe all religions can lead to Trinity

Are you sure? This would mean that there is no difference at all between Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodoxes and Baptists. Which is not the case.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Coreece 190]

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No, it is not impossible, and that has been done was done. Since you didn't provide any explanation, I assume that you probably mentioned that it is impossible to provide a study you would agree with (unless the numbers there show what you want to see, of course).

BS...I already said that I believe there will to be a day when Christian influece will be void of this world....it has nothing to do with what I want to see....I couldn't careless how many religious people there are....

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I believe all religions can lead to Trinity

>Are you sure? This would mean that there is no difference at all between Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodoxes and Baptists. Which is not the case.

You need to carefully read what I wrote...then think about it for awhile.

...nevermind

I'll just decipher it for you.

I believe ALL religions can lead to The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (the Son being Jesus) AKA GOD....The Trinity.

FYI...Baptists ARE Protestants.....

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[georgerussia 0]

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BS...I already said that I believe there will to be a day when Christian influece will be void of this world....

This is irrelevant. We're discussing the published study, and I'm addressing your comment about impossibility to create a reliable study on the subject.

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I believe ALL religions can lead to The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (the Son being Jesus) AKA GOD....The Trinity.

Then we would have a single religion, which didn't happen during last 2,000 years and is even less unlikely to happen soon. In fact we see more and more of them.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[jcd11235 0]

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No, it is not impossible, and that has been done was done. Since you didn't provide any explanation, I assume that you probably mentioned that it is impossible to provide a study you would agree with (unless the numbers there show what you want to see, of course).

BS...I already said that I believe there will to be a day when Christian influece will be void of this world....it has nothing to do with what I want to see....I couldn't careless how many religious people there are....

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I believe all religions can lead to Trinity

>Are you sure? This would mean that there is no difference at all between Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodoxes and Baptists. Which is not the case.

You need to carefully read what I wrote...then think about it for awhile.

...nevermind

I'll just decipher it for you.

I believe ALL religions can lead to The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (the Son being Jesus) AKA GOD....The Trinity.

FYI...Baptists ARE Protestants.....

I'd be interested to hear your explanation of how Buddhism, Taoism, Druidism, and Wicca, to name just a few religions, lead to the father, the son, and the holy spirit.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreece 190]

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This is irrelevant. We're discussing the published study, and I'm addressing your comment about impossibility to create a reliable study on the subject.

In regards to Religion, georgerussia:

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In fact we see more and more of them.

You do realize you just agreed with my statement that religious belief is not dropping.

So how reliable is that study now considering the FACT, (as YOU put it) that we see more and more Religion.

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Then we would have a single religion, which didn't happen during last 2,000 years and is even less unlikely to happen soon. In fact we see more and more of them.

I started off as a Catholic....then I had my own religion....then I became a Buddhist....then I did the Earth Mother....then I became an Athiest....Now I believe In Christ and He hasn't forsaken me since and changed my life forever and continues to do so, and you have no clue how he does it in my life.

So now you know how I can say that all religions can lead to God who is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (The Son being Jesus Christ)

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[JackC 0]

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In regards to Religion, georgerussia:

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In fact we see more and more of them.

You do realize you just agreed with my statement that religious belief is not dropping.

So how reliable is that study now considering the FACT, (as YOU put it) that we see more and more Religion.

You should probably read that again. You appear to have misunderstood Georgerussia's point.

[georgerussia 0]

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In regards to Religion, georgerussia:

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In fact we see more and more of them.

You do realize you just agreed with my statement that religious belief is not dropping.

That's a funny logic. Do you realize that the number of _religions_ increasing does not necessary mean that the number of religious people is increasing? They may not even correlate.

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So how reliable is that study now considering the FACT, (as YOU put it) that we see more and more Religion.

I'm sure we will see more and more religious sects. After all, it's a good way to make money, if anything.

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I started off as a Catholic....then I had my own religion....then I became a Buddhist....then I did the Earth Mother....then I became an Athiest....Now I believe In Christ and He hasn't forsaken me since and changed my life forever and continues to do so, and you have no clue how he does it in my life.

And so? People believe in various things. There are people who believe drinking your pee will cure their cancer, or having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS. There are also people who truly believe the aliens came to Earth and had sex with them. It's useless to build anything using your beliefs as base.

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So now you know how I can say that all religions can lead to God who is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (The Son being Jesus Christ)

You could say that, but this could be a useless statement. All religions COULD lead to everything by definition. This includes not only Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but also murder, suicide, and illegal sex - it all happened before.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Coreece 190]

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You should probably read that again. You appear to have misunderstood Georgerussia's point.

I said that all religions can lead to Trinity...doesn't mean they always do...and I don't know how God works in peoples lives, regardless of their Religion.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[JackC 0]

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You should probably read that again. You appear to have misunderstood Georgerussia's point.

I said that all religions can lead to Trinity...doesn't mean they always do...and I don't know how God works in peoples lives, regardless of their Religion.

Again, point = missed.

[Coreece 190]

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You could say that, but this could be a useless statement. All religions COULD lead to everything by definition.

I guess you could say it was tounge in cheek...

think of my statement like this...

All religions can lead to Christ...it was a spin off the common statement "All Religions lead to God"

I suppose it would've made more sense if I added a

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[TrophyHusband 0]

the problem with this is that i think most people need some sort of dogma to believe in. if its not religion, it will be some other silly thing thing they will latch on to. either way i will still have to hear about other peoples' bullshit beliefs.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[tkhayes 348]

stop talking about it and do something about it,
join ffrf.org

Good organization from what I can see, just very small.

Us atheists are 15% of the population, if we got off out asses and acted on OUR beliefs, we could influence a lot of things.

Bill Maher said just that in Religulous

[TrophyHusband 0]

why?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Andy9o8 2]

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Us atheists are 15% of the population, if we got off out asses and acted on OUR beliefs, we could influence a lot of things.

There are no beliefs to act upon; it's an absence of spiritual belief.

I've been writing an atheist manifesto. Here's the first chapter:

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.

So how do you like it so far?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Not bad for a first draft; a bit wordy though.

[jcd11235 0]

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Us atheists are 15% of the population, if we got off out asses and acted on OUR beliefs, we could influence a lot of things.

There are no beliefs to act upon; it's an absence of spiritual belief.

I've been writing an atheist manifesto. Here's the first chapter:

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.

So how do you like it so far?

You realize that you're increasing the potential of Protestant Atheists, right?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[georgerussia 0]

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All religions can lead to Christ...it was a spin off the common statement "All Religions lead to God"

Another meaningless statement. Everything COULD in theory lead to anything.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Coreece 190]

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Another meaningless statement. Everything COULD in theory lead to anything.

As I said, the original statement was supposed to be tongue in cheek...maybe even slightly sarcastic....I guess the lack of seriousness was too subtle....I think I may have even started taking the comment too seriously myself....

I can let this one go if you can...it's not really even worth explaining it any further anyhow....sorry to waste you're time.....

However, as far as reliability and accuracy of these studies, I think this statement from the article earlier in the thread supports the notion of unreliability:

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"More than ever before, people are just making up their own stories of who they are. They say, 'I'm everything. I'm nothing. I believe in myself,' " says Barry Kosmin, survey co-author.

I suppose we could discuss this and the reliability of phone surveys further...and also how you get an accurate count of religious in the first place...if you want.

As I said, I'm really not concerned with how many religious there are, I think it's meaningless....even if the study said it was going up, I'd still say it's unreliable.

Also, even if you could have an accurate reliable study, I think it would say more if it were world-wide.

Futher more, if that study still said Religion or Christianity was dropping, it could be argued that it's actually more in-line with scripture:

Matthew 7:12-14:
12"So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[georgerussia 0]

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However, as far as reliability and accuracy of these studies, I think this statement from the article earlier in the thread supports the notion of unreliability:

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"More than ever before, people are just making up their own stories of who they are. They say, 'I'm everything. I'm nothing. I believe in myself,' " says Barry Kosmin, survey co-author.

I do not know how did you interpret this quote, but I do not see it as any proof of unreliability. The person just did not provide a satisfying answer. It is basically the same as claiming the study unreliable because a few people hang up their phone after being asked their religious association.

What would be a good quote is the following:

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Today, he says, "religion has become more like a fashion statement, not a deep personal commitment for many."

And my personal belief is that religion in USA became a fashion statement quite a long time ago. I have personally seen a lot of people who claimed they're Christians, but looking on their behavior those claims look empty. So it's just more people who weren't Christians stopped calling themselves Christians. Which is a good thing.

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I suppose we could discuss this and the reliability of phone surveys further...and also how you get an accurate count of religious in the first place...if you want.

I would be interested to get the survey information, i.e. how the participants were chosen, what questions were asked, and if more than one, what combination of answers would invalidate the results (some surveys ask the same question multiple times from different angles to detect the responders who did not understand the question, or lied).

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As I said, I'm really not concerned with how many religious there are, I think it's meaningless....even if the study said it was going up, I'd still say it's unreliable.

Well, very few things on this planet are less reliable than the Bible, and Jesus story - but still you have no problems believing in it. Hell and Heaven, for example, is unreliable by definition.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[rehmwa 2]

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And my personal belief is that religion in USA became a fashion statement quite a long time ago.

I'd think you'd have to take one person at a time on that one. And not just the USA, and not just the typical religions, count in atheism, and a lot of other things like eco-sensitivity, partisan rants of all kinds, etc. The general statement that people tailor their beliefs and actions to 'fit in' then is pretty weak, as that's been going on forever.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[georgerussia 0]

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I'd think you'd have to take one person at a time on that one. And not just the USA, and not just the typical religions, count in atheism, and a lot of other things like eco-sensitivity, partisan rants of all kinds, etc.

There are several issues here. First, atheism is not a "typical religion", it is not a religion at all. Second, other things like eco-sensitivity, partisan rants, politicians etc. usually do not base their statements on being morally superior because of some unknown god. So I would separate religion from all those other things.

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The general statement that people tailor their beliefs and actions to 'fit in' then is pretty weak, as that's been going on forever.

This would assume we became less hypocritical - which doesn't seem to be the case.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *