It's about time the US had some 'union tyranny'

[dreamdancer 0]

i say union - you say hoffa you say corporation - i say madoff

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
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[lawrocket 3]

There is a difference:

You wrote: "remember that unions are just groups of moral people doing their jobs..."

Bill responded.

I don't recall Bill (or me or anybody) stating the same about corporations. We know and admit that corporations, businesses, can be corrupt. (unions are corporations - which proves my point.)

There are some misanthropic corporations out there - plenty. But a corporation does not argue that it is in the business of being moral. The corporation is there to make money.

Unions argue that they are in the business of being moral. Wrong - they are in the business of making money. They aim to squeeze out competition, which is why they power play each others' turf so frequently.

Let's get serious about what unions are.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think that the government sees some jobs out there are too important to let union assholes fuck stuff up. Let's say the union representing TSA workers says, "We need to fatten our pockets with higher union dues. Let's demand a pay raise. If we don't get it, we will strike and shut down the whole fucking country until our demands are met."

I think everyone still remembers what happened to the flight controllers that thought this way.

[lawrocket 3]

Yes. And Reagan was (and still is) reviled for firing the controllers. Remember how their position was that they were irreplaceable and Reagan had no choice?

Yep. Another example of a union that put its members out of work. Oh, yeah. That union stopped existing, too.

If I recall correctly, Eastern Airlines faced a strike back then. Then the airline liquidated.

And the unions were happy. Sure, its members weren't.but the union could claim victory.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Although election-law experts suggest that Coleman’s arguments are unlikely to have any more effect on the state Supreme Court than they did in front of judges from around the state who have heard them throughout this long process, Coleman is still keeping his team of lawyers busy and well-paid. And who’s paying for those mounting legal bills? The same corporate front groups bankrolling the fight against the Employee Free Choice Act.

The Washington Post’s Greg Sargent reports that Coleman’s cronies—a coalition of deep-pocketed corporate lobbying groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the National Federation of Independent Business, the National Restaurant Association and the National Association of Wholesaler-Distributors (NAW)—are willing to “raise as much as necessary” to keep Coleman’s lawyers going and bankroll his attempts to overturn the judges’ ruling that Franken is the winner.

It’s clear what’s underlying this: Franken ran—and won—as a friend to working families and a supporter of the Employee Free Choice Act. Franken, a former member of the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA), the Screen Actors (SAG) and the Writers Guild of America, campaigned alongside union members throughout his campaign, and their energetic mobilization made the critical difference in one of the closest Senate races in U.S. history.

Now, after their failure to defeat pro-worker Franken at the ballot box, corporate front groups are hoping to keep him out of the Senate seat that’s rightfully his, to prevent him from voting to break minority filibusters and pass critical legislation to make the economy work for everyone. Because of the rules of the Senate, having a vacant seat is just as effective in squelching pro-worker bills as having someone there to vote against them. Even Dirk Van Dongen, NAW president, acknowledges that keeping the seat empty is a feature that Coleman’s backers are happy about.

(Worth noting: the Chamber of Commerce gets at least some its money from groups that have taken taxpayer bailout money. Not only is the Chamber putting its resources into anti-worker lobbying and anti-Employee Free Choice commercials—they’re paying to prevent Minnesota from seating a senator.)

http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/04/17/big-business-blocks-working-family-bills-by-keeping-frankens-senate-seat-vacant/

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
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[tonyhays 86]

****Yawn*****

Why are you quoting a blog from the AFL-CIO??? If you want some something that will invoke some intelligent debate quote a NEUTRAL source.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[georgerussia 0]

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http://blog.aflcio.org/2009/04/17/big-business-blocks-working-family-bills-by-keeping-frankens-senate-seat-vacant/

I think they should get you on payroll for advertising their position.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[dreamdancer 0]

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Why are you quoting a blog from the AFL-CIO??? If you want some something that will invoke some intelligent debate quote a NEUTRAL source.

facts are facts

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blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kelpdiver 2]

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facts are facts

Especially if you repeat them a lot.

[lawrocket 3]

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Why are you quoting a blog from the AFL-CIO??? If you want some something that will invoke some intelligent debate quote a NEUTRAL source.

facts are facts

So you consider "opinions" to be "facts?"

Facts you support are facts.
Opinions you support are facts.
Facts you don't support are opinions.
Opinions you don't support are paranoia.

I could call the above facts. But simply saying "facts are facts" does not make them "facts."

Opinions are opinions and reasonable minds can differ.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[dreamdancer 0]

paranoid right-wingers are not 'reasonable minds'

that is my opinion

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[lawrocket 3]

How about non-paranoid right-wingers?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[dreamdancer 0]

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Solidarity was founded in Gdansk in September 1980 at the Lenin Shipyards, where Lech Walesa and others formed a broad anti-communist social movement ranging from people associated with the Catholic Church to members of the anti-communist Left. Solidarity advocated non-violence in its members' activities. In September 1981 Solidarity's first national congress elected Lech Walesa as a president and adopted a republican program, the "Self-governing Republic". The government attempted to destroy the union with the martial law of 1981 and several years of repression, but in the end it had to start negotiating with the union.

In Poland, the Roundtable Talks between the government and Solidarity-led opposition led to semi-free elections in 1989. By the end of August a Solidarity-led coalition government was formed and in December Tadeusz Mazowiecki was elected Prime Minister. Since 1989 Solidarity has become a more traditional trade union, and had relatively little impact on the political scene of Poland in the early 1990s. A political arm founded in 1996 as Solidarity Electoral Action (AWS) won the parliamentary election in 1997, but lost the following 2001 election. Currently, as a political party Solidarity has little political influence in modern Polish politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[rehmwa 2]

Lucky? Is that you?

We've missed you.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

Solidarity is a union that brought about social change and died out.

We don't find the deaths of political organizations that have outlived their usefulness, like the AFL-CIO. All those labor laws mean that non-union workers get treated as well (if not better - they don't have unions skimming money off the top) than union employees.

So here's a question: if laws were changed to give all workers the same privileges as those who work for the UAW, would you support the demise of the UAW?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Royd 0]

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Bad management wrecked the auto companies. Right wing bullshit wrongly attributes the fault to the unions. And the gullible suck up the bullshit like it was manna from heaven.

Labor makes up about 10 percent, that is correct ten percent, of the cost of a car. The rest is materials and overhead. Cutting wages and benefits by 25-40% is going to reduce the manufacturing cost by how much? This is a math test for the union haters out there.

How does that kind of wage cut make the economy better and improve the circumstances for the middle class?

The stupid assholes that buy the mass media bullshit that "The unions are killing the cars companies" are helping drive this country into the ground. The management of the auto companies has killed the auto companies. Not the workers.

I wonder how many union workers, if they decided to start their own business, would immediatley seek union workers, to get it off the ground....Therein, lies your answer to unions.

[lawrocket 3]

Management does, indeed, share some blame.

The economy shares some blame.

And unions share some blame - a lot of it.

There aren't many differences between GM, Ford and Toyota in the US production facilities - except for union involvement.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jcd11235 0]

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There aren't many differences between GM, Ford and Toyota in the US production facilities - except for union involvement.

There are actually some very fundamental differences in management philosophy between Toyota and US automakers that have played a significant role in Toyota's relative success. It's the Toyota Way that has made them successful, not a lack of union employees.

As long as large corporations are operated with the short term approval of the shareholders as the primary concern, those corporations will struggle to compete with companies that are run with broader and more long term vision.

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