The success of drug decriminalization in Portugal

[georgerussia 0]

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This is turning into a circular discussion that's going to land nowhere. Have a good night.

I understand. You have strong beliefs, and all the facts in the world won't change them. Which is ok - just do not tell us next time that your position is based on real facts (because it is not), and someone need to do something with it.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[BIGUN 1,314]

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be sure to work on that.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[wmw999 2,447]

a. pretty much everyone has places where their beliefs trump most (though not necessarily all) facts that are brought to them. In part because most situations are complex enough that a single fact won't overcome a social construct, and no one weights all facts alike.
b. a frontal assault is nearly always the worst way to get someone to reconsider facts in a deeply-felt matter. Give them time to think and consider their beliefs in light of information, rather than putting them on the defensive.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Butters 0]

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a. pretty much everyone has places where their beliefs trump most (though not necessarily all) facts that are brought to them. In part because most situations are complex enough that a single fact won't overcome a social construct, and no one weights all facts alike.
b. a frontal assault is nearly always the worst way to get someone to reconsider facts in a deeply-felt matter. Give them time to think and consider their beliefs in light of information, rather than putting them on the defensive.

Wendy W.

Wendy, the problem is many of these people already have other people on the defensive because of their beliefs. Thus, the frontal assault ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[hwt 0]

Prohibition doesn't work, never has .They tried controlling alcohol and look at the money we pissed away trying to control people from drinking.And we had even more people drinking after passing that stupid amendment.
Now people make the same excuses against pot.

Hello. McFly, anyone home? Prohibition doesn't work .
All that money we are spending to control people from smoking weed and we could regulate and tax it and get us out of the debt that this country is in
Alcohol kills, Not pot..smoking weed leads to suicide?
Stop making excuses..Blue Skies!

[nerdgirl 0]

Absolutely no need for you to apologize, in my opinion.

Thread drift happens; sometimes the thread drift is more fun, interesting, or informative.
Not sure whether these electrons are communistic or anarchistic ... or which is a less strained political analogy … regardless, once they’re out there, they don’t belong to me. In this discussion, the drift was marginal at most, (again, imo).

The passages I quotes at the start are emphasizing the empirical data from Portugal.

The personal; the ideological - in both the formal sense of the word not the pejorative usage that one encounters, *and* in the sense that some people will oppose any policy put forth by an Executive with a (D) or (R) behind their name and rationalize/excuse/defend policies enacted by Executive with a (D) or (R) behind their name -and perhaps cultural or social are less ‘loaded’ words; the ethical; and the pragmatic implementation and execution issues to any major change in policy toward illegal drugs must also be addressed. You've brought forward only one of many.

It's also characteristic of transparency in which dumb ideas can be called out rather than "D.A.D." tactics (Decide. Announce. Defend.) or not some dumb ideas are poorly implemented, e.g., Yucca Mountain or the CW demil incineration program.

As one considers major policy changes, I value empirical data. From a realist, pragmatic, policy perspective that’s the first hurdle: is the current policy effective? Is there evidence or good reason to support changing that policy? Change just for change is not a valid policy reason, imo. Is there evidence or good reason to support some new policy proposal? (And can it be concisely conveyed in a 1-page, 13-pt, Times New Roman font action memorandum … whoops … sorry … old habits are sometimes hard to shake ).

Perhaps personal, ideological, cultural, or ethical issues will trump other factors. In some issues, they should, imo. In others, nope.

For example, if we go back to the issue of drunk driving, Norway’s policies (laws) have worked well. One might argue exceptionally well in reducing drunk driving. At the end of my mom’s career as an RN, she worked at an alcohol treatment center; she had horrid stories of rationalization and guys who had 20+ DUIs before losing licenses. Folks who would assert that the problem would be solved if Ford would stop making cars or that the ‘cop’ waited three years in a row for the drunk driver who ‘only’ had one drink on his birthday. (Yeah, right.) Why haven’t similar laws to the effective ones in Norway been enacted across municipalities in the US? I would speculate that there are ideological, cultural, and social explanations. Not a lack of empirical data.

As you might suspect, my interest in the subject is not motivated by a desire to use currently illegal drugs. Beyond the domestic issues that noted in my initial post – (“the current policies cost a lot of money while the benefit is largely in black market economies. Those empirical and policy issues I do care about)” – there are broader international issues from increased drug violence in Mexico to funding of Taliban insurgency through opium - (those guys have recognized the market-connections and the positive financial benefits to them of that product) - to sexual slavery and drug trade in Southeast Asia, both women and girls and boys.

So I look forward to hearing more about the impact and lessons to be learned from Portugal’s decriminalization policies.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying