Which rifle?

[steve1 5]

I'm thinking about buying another hunting rifle. It's scary how much they cost these days, but more guns are something you need!.....Right??

These are some things I'm looking for:

1. Accuracy.
2. Not too long or too heavy.
3, Probably a Remington or Winchester. Bolt action.
4. Price is a consideration. I don't want a custom rifle.
5. I didn't want to spend much over $900 on the rifle without a scope.
6. I like laminated stocks, some synthetic stocks, stainless steel barrels and actions.
7. I like fluted barrels, but don't want to go with a heavy barrel. (a 24 inch barrel would be the maximum length)
8. I'm not crazy about magnums, but might consider one.
9. This would be an all around deer and elk gun.

Yes, I am a picky bastard....

Any suggestions??

[nbblood 0]

The Ruger M77 is available in an excellent laminated stock with stainless barrel. Ruger rifles come with scope rings. You'd be well under your $900 mark with that too. It's an excellent rifle for the money. I have the laminated stainless combo in 22-250. Very reliable gun and shoots well.

For more money, I really like the Kimber rifles, but really, I'm a big Weatherby fan (I have 5).

Edited to add photo:

P.S. Ruger also has a black laminate (added another photo; it's a left-handed bolt, but you get the picture)

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[nbblood 0]

Here's one on gunbroker.com that I found. Hurry, only 6 1/2 hours left!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124874099

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[steve1 5]

I saw a Ruger recently, and it really caught my eye. I do like the claw extractor on the bolt. The built in bases, and free scope rings are also a plus. Their stainless rifle with the laminated stock is beautiful!

The only thing that is keeping me from buying one is the question of accuracy. I've heard they usually don't shoot as well as Remington, Savage, or Winchester. I don't know that for sure though. I've never owned a Ruger. I really do like the looks of them....

[LouDiamond 1]

Remington model 700 sounds like it might be what you're looking for. Take a look at the XCR compact tactical.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[millertime24 8]

Remington 700 isn't bad. And there are quite a few diferent set up's out there to go with. Also, they are pretty much all in your price range.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_SPS.asp

Muff #5048

[millertime24 8]

Quote

Remington model 700 sounds like it might be what you're looking for. Take a look at the XCR compact tactical.

Beat me to it, but I think for what he's looking for the SPS would be better suited.

Muff #5048

[nbblood 0]

Quote

The only thing that is keeping me from buying one is the question of accuracy. I've heard they usually don't shoot as well as Remington, Savage, or Winchester. I don't know that for sure though. I've never owned a Ruger. I really do like the looks of them....

I know of quite a few dead deer and elk that would testify (if they could), that Rugers shoot just fine. I've never heard that about Rugers and never had a problem with mine. Their pistols are another story. But Winchester had some pretty rough years when they were making total crap. You couldn't give me a Savage (well, yes you could, but I'd just sell it......CHEAP.). Betwween my brother and me, we have 5 Rugers in various calibers and finishes. For the money, I say they're the best deal out there.

Are there better choices for more money? You bet. Like I said, I'm a self-proclaimed Weatherby fan. I like the Kimber, the Browning A-Bolt, Sako, Remington 700 CDL, ah, hell, really, I like em all. I'm trying to get one of everything in every caliber!

You're right about the Ruger extractor. It is very solid and reliable. Don't let how they shoot hold you up. They shoot just fine. But then there's choices, choices, choices...... Damn, I need more money!

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[steve1 5]

I love Remington 700 rifles. I bought a BDL model back when I was a teenager (whew that was a long time ago). in 30/06. Shot everything from gophers to moose with it. I glass bedded the action, floated the barrel, worked on the trigger, put a 3X9 leupold on it. It will drive tacks with the right reload.

I have another in the Remington classic model, in 270. Another in 300 magnum (out of their custom shop). They are all extremely accurate after fine tuning them.

I'm not sure why I need another rifle. My daughter is thinking about getting a 270 for elk. So, I might give her one of my old rifles, while a get a new one for myself.

I was looking at a dandy Remington the other day. It had a fluted stainless barrel. I think it also came standard with a timney trigger.

I've heard the Army may be going to a Winchester for their sniper rifle. A guy in a rifle shop gave me this info. He said the Marines were still using mostly Remingto 700's for that.

I've owned a few different Winchester rifles over the years. One of them (a feather-light) didn't shoot well until I put a shim under the fore-end. It had a skinny whip like barrel. It now groups five shots under 3/4 of an inch at a hundred yards. So, I really like that rifle.

The other two didn't shoot too well, so I got rid of them. So, I'm wondering about the new Winchester rifles. I heard they are much better made than some of their earlier models. The pre-64 Winchesters are really great rifles. I wouldn't mind owning one of them, but they may be out of my price range.........

[Rookie120 0]

I vote for the Winchester 7mm mag. I love this rifle.




http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Bolt-Rifles/Winchester_M70_Rifle.htm

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[biplane_dude 0]

You can't go wrong with a Remington 700 in a synthetic stock or ;aminated. They are probably the all around best gun. The problem you present is a Deer and/or Elk gun. Deer can be taken comfortably with anything down to a 308 or even a bit lower. Elk however, your talking about a much bigger gun. I know you said you weren't too hot about the mag's... but any of the Win mags are phenomenal (a bit of a snap when you pull the trigge but phenomenal).

Life's the Pitts then you jump one.

[steve1 5]

[reply
Deer can be taken comfortably with anything down to a 308 or even a bit lower. Elk however, your talking about a much bigger gun. I know you said you weren't too hot about the mag's... but any of the Win mags are phenomenal (a bit of a snap when you pull the trigge but phenomenal).

[LouDiamond 1]

Check out THIS Article on barrel lengths and also look at the one titled Barrel lengths revisited on the right side of the page.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[warpedskydiver 0]

Get a Savage 110, 112 etc.

Best rifle for the money

[warpedskydiver 0]

6.5Grendel has taken an Elk @ 405yds with one shot, the Elk was a 5x5 and quite large.

It did not even get one step before it curled up and dropped.

6.5 Swede has taken many elk just like .270win.

bullet selection and shot placement trumps power.

If you cannot be as accurate with a larger caliber then there is no advantage to be had.

[warpedskydiver 0]

All you need is an 18-20" bbl anymore is a waste.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Check out THIS Article on barrel lengths and also look at the one titled Barrel lengths revisited on the right side of the page.

That's an interesting article. However, by cutting down the barrel, he does sacrifice muzzle velocity from powder that doesn't have time to burn before the bullet exits. And that translates to more hang time in the air, which means more bullet drift due to wind. And also having the velocity drop to subsonic speeds sooner, with resulting inaccuracy at long distances. He does a good job of making his point, but he also ignores all the negative factors that come with that shorter barrel.

[LouDiamond 1]

John, did you read the 2nd article as well?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[warpedskydiver 0]

Old School habits are hard to overcome and even harder for most to realize that things are not as they seemed.

A Grendel with a MV of 2450 uses less clicks of adjustment to get to 1000yds than a 175grain HPBT Matchking from a .308.

People just cannot belive it when they see it.

BC is a slippery idea to get hold of.

155 Scenars in .308 are better at 1000 than are the heavier VLDs

[warpedskydiver 0]

Get a Savage in 7-08 or .260

do not buy long action

Select the right bullet and use a Badger scope mount.

Spend your money on a scope.

Use a one hand adjustable sling get the bbl threaded and PM me for a Brake.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

John, did you read the 2nd article as well?

Yes I did. It was just a bunch of personal testimonials.
Again, they didn't address the issue of lower muzzle velocity.
I'm not questioning the accuracy from a short barrel - at short ranges, and/or in ideal conditions.
I'm questioning the increased difficulty of shooting accurately with a lower muzzle velocity at long distances and in wind.

At 1,000 yards it only takes a loss of a couple of hundred feet per second to make the bullets subsonic before they get to the target, causing erratic hits.

If someone is an expert at doping the wind, they can deal with that. But most people aren't, and can use all the help then can get from a faster bullet.

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Spend your money on a scope.

Always a good idea to buy as much glass as you can afford. With that said, a scope that I was skeptical about at first but now am sold on are the Horus scopes

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

John, did you read the 2nd article as well?

Yes I did. It was just a bunch of personal testimonials.
Again, they didn't address the issue of lower muzzle velocity.
I'm not questioning the accuracy from a short barrel - in ideal conditions.
I'm questioning the increased difficulty of shooting accurately with a lower muzzle velocity at long distances and in wind.

You realize in those testimonials that they are shooting in a real world environment and not just flat ranges at bulls right? Also, what are you considering long ranges for a 7.62 M-24/ Rem 700?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Old School habits are hard to overcome and even harder for most to realize that things are not as they seemed. A Grendel with a MV of 2450 uses less MOA to get to 1000yds than a 175grain HPBT Matchking from a .308. BC is a slippery idea to get hold of. 155 Scenars in .308 are better at 1000 than are the heavier VLDs

I understand BC. But that's not what we're talking about here in cutting barrels down shorter. They're changing neiether the caliber nor the bullets, from my understanding. They're talking about shooting the exact same load as before, but out of a shorter barrel. Therefore, the BC is the same, and is not a factor.

If you both cut the barrel down and change the bullets, then you can't equate any accuracy improvement to the short barrel alone, because you've changed more than one variable.

And I don't understand your term "uses less MOA". MOA is an accuracy measurement, and not something that gets "used".

[warpedskydiver 0]

I misstated my intention

sorry the pain meds are kicking my ass.

Less clicks of adjustment.

I know that you know how to shoot.

But the BC is a larger factor in that it will overcome the slight loss of velocity from the chop of a bbl.

Stiffer is better and if the ammo was the same in both rifle and burned well in the shorter you will have a better shooting rifle with the shorter bbl.

18" is what it takes to burn most powders.

After that there is not much gained.

I only have one rifle that has a 21" bbl and that needs chopping when I get around to it.

The FAL is not hard to work on but someone else has my tools for working on that.

My FAL will have an 18" bbl.

The Grendel I have is 19.5" but that was all there was at the time of purchase.

When I got mine it was either 19.5" or 24"

a 14.5' Grendel works great out to 600yds and as much as 800yds, it has been proved.