4 Oakland police killed

[jclalor 12]

I was just wondering if after the first 2 officers were shot and they then had the shooter isolated in an apartment. Why the SWAT team did not try every means to try to capture the shooter with out risking the lives of the SWAT team members.. They entered the apartment after only a 2 hour standoff and 2 more cops were killed.
I know being a cop is dangerous but should they have not tried all means possable? tear gas, cutting the power, communicate, have family members try and talk to him, wait him out etc etc etc.
I may be wrong but I feel in thier haste to get revenge, they ended up costing two more cops thier lives.

[akarunway 1]

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I was just wondering if after the first 2 officers were shot and they then had the shooter isolated in an apartment. Why the SWAT team did not try every means to try to capture the shooter with out risking the lives of the SWAT team members.. They entered the apartment after only a 2 hour standoff and 2 more cops were killed.
I know being a cop is dangerous but should they have not tried all means possable? tear gas, cutting the power, communicate, have family members try and talk to him, wait him out etc etc etc.
I may be wrong but I feel in thier haste to get revenge, they ended up costing two more cops thier lives.

4 less STUPID nazi pigs.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[jclalor 12]

one less stupiid criminal

[kbordson 8]

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4 less STUPID nazi pigs.

While I have some level of distrust for the legal system, those officers were still four people that were someones son, husband, father... they died trying to uphold a law. Name calling and insults of the dead is .... tacky.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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4 less STUPID nazi pigs.

While I have some level of distrust for the legal system, those officers were still four people that were someones son, husband, father... they died trying to uphold a law. Name calling and insults of the dead is .... tacky.

Exactly.

SWAT guys don't run in like rambo, they were ordered in...and went.

[Skyrad 0]

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I was just wondering if after the first 2 officers were shot and they then had the shooter isolated in an apartment. Why the SWAT team did not try every means to try to capture the shooter with out risking the lives of the SWAT team members.. They entered the apartment after only a 2 hour standoff and 2 more cops were killed.
I know being a cop is dangerous but should they have not tried all means possable? tear gas, cutting the power, communicate, have family members try and talk to him, wait him out etc etc etc.
I may be wrong but I feel in thier haste to get revenge, they ended up costing two more cops thier lives.

4 less STUPID nazi pigs.

Who would have been there to save your life if needed.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[dropdeded 0]

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4 less STUPID nazi pigs.

Thats a shitty remark. I have family in the Oakland PD. Have a nice fuckin day

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The Dude Abides.
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[gjhdiver 0]

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4 less STUPID nazi pigs.

Thats a shitty remark. I have family in the Oakland PD. Have a nice fuckin day

Let's just say that right now, there's a feeling in certain parts of the Oakland community that the cops got what was coming to them. There's very little love lost for the Oakland PD for many reasons, and the shooting of Oscar Grant in the back on New Year's Day hasn't helped much. Let's just say that there isn't a large wellspring of goodwill for them.

It's not so much that they wished it on them, but more a case of that they don't particularly care that it did. I have several friends who are cops in other bay area municipalities, and pretty much all of them have little respect for the Oakland PD.

I live in a different county, so I quite frankly could care less. Oakland has the police force it deserves as far as I'm concerned.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Let's just say that right now, there's a feeling in certain parts of the Oakland community that the cops got what was coming to them. There's very little love lost for the Oakland PD for many reasons, and the shooting of Oscar Grant in the back on New Year's Day hasn't helped much. Let's just say that there isn't a large wellspring of goodwill for them.

You are unaware that this shooting was by the BART police, and had nothing to do with the OPD? Or choosing to ignore it for some leftist cop bashing?

Perhaps the OPD deserved some sort of rap, but I doubt these 4 individuals did.

[downwardspiral 0]

Anyone know what kind of weapon was used against these cops?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[JohnRich 4]

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Anyone know what kind of weapon was used against these cops?

I haven't heard exact details yet, just the generalities. The two traffic cops were shot with a handgun. The murderer then fled on foot to an apartment, and when SWAT stormed in, he was shooting with an "assault weapon", which could mean absolutely anything according to our illustrious press.

The real story as I see it is why this guy was loose on the street in the first place. He had a long criminal history, and was currently on parole for armed assault with a firearm.

So you see, we don't need new gun laws. We just need the basic ones already on the books to be enforced, and not let violent felons go free to be back on the street to commit yet more crimes.

It is the judicial system that should be criticized here, not guns.

[gjhdiver 0]

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You are unaware that this shooting was by the BART police, and had nothing to do with the OPD? Or choosing to ignore it for some leftist cop bashing?

Don't be silly. I am well aware of who shot Oscar Grant. I ride the BART regularly. My very good friend, the dear departed Deuce was a BART cop for 17 years. (I have his BART captain's badge that he gave me before he died still.) The point I was making is that it also occurred in Oakland, and just added to the already systemic distrust of law enforcement in certain areas of the community where police of any department are viewed as the enemy. The fact remains that relations between the police and certain portions of the local community in Oakland is not a leftist or a rightist issue. It's strictly local politics.

Normally when something like this happens, there are huge makeshift memorials, flowers, gifts etc placed at the scene. As of last night, there were four votive candles, whilst a crowd of locals taunted the police present. That ain't a party political issue, that's a complete systemic breakdown in law enforcement/community relations.

[kelpdiver 2]

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There's very little love lost for the Oakland PD for many reasons, and the shooting of Oscar Grant in the back on New Year's Day hasn't helped much

Anyone reading this that is not familiar with the events is going to fairly presume that the Oakland PD was involved in this shooting. While many of the more residents may choose to consider them one and the same, that ignorance doesn't need to be perpetuated by you.

[jclalor 12]

Semi auto hand gun against the first 2 at the traffic stop. an AK 47 against the SWAT team.
I think once they had the guy cornered they should have tried every thing they could have before storming the apartment, The guy was hiding in a closet and the two dead SWAT guys never had a chance.
Thay have been interviewing law enforcment in the bay area who are saying this will be taught for years to SWAT on how not to handle it like this in a similar situation.

[downwardspiral 0]

Thanks. You too John.

I had a feeling an ILLEGAL Ak47 was used since the media was pretty quiet about the weapons used. At least they were in the articles I read.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[warpedskydiver 0]

I would have to examine it to determine if was really an AK-47, if it was the guy probably got it from someone who smuggled it in from Mexico.

Unless he got it as a MAC-90 or similar and illegally converted it.

Anyway you look at it he illegally possessed it.

All sorts of laws were broken before he broke the law against murder.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I had a feeling an ILLEGAL Ak47 was used since the media was pretty quiet about the weapons used. At least they were in the articles I read.

Why would they conceal that information? A few years ago when someone killed a cop with on in SF, that was loudly trumpeted. With the talk of renewing the federal AWB, I'd expect it to be quite loudly announced.

[downwardspiral 0]

because it more an argument against the AWB rather than for.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[gjhdiver 0]

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Anyone reading this that is not familiar with the events is going to fairly presume that the Oakland PD was involved in this shooting. While many of the more residents may choose to consider them one and the same, that ignorance doesn't need to be perpetuated by you.

And over his head goes the point and hits the wall with a dull thud. I'll have one more try at this.

The people I refer to know the difference between the OPD and BART police. My point was they make little distinction between the two. They regard all police as equally bad and untrustworthy.

[Gawain 0]

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4 less STUPID nazi pigs.

Fail.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kelpdiver 2]

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Anyone reading this that is not familiar with the events is going to fairly presume that the Oakland PD was involved in this shooting. While many of the more residents may choose to consider them one and the same, that ignorance doesn't need to be perpetuated by you.

And over his head goes the point and hits the wall with a dull thud. I'll have one more try at this.

The people I refer to know the difference between the OPD and BART police. My point was they make little distinction between the two. They regard all police as equally bad and untrustworthy.

Sure, I repeat it one more time as well. that ignorance doesn't need to be perpetuated by you.

[kelpdiver 2]

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because it more an argument against the AWB rather than for.

Only for those aware of the facts, and you know that has little to do with the AWB proponents.

The AK47 had been illegal for quite some time now in CA. Did it become legal elsewhere in the country with the expiration? I thought it was still illegal, period.

Either way, a crime committed with an "assault rifle" is always justification to Brady that we need to ban sale of other "assault rifles."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I would have to examine it to determine if was really an AK-47, if it was the guy probably got it from someone who smuggled it in from Mexico.

Wow, must be areal bummer having crimes being committed using illegal weapons smuggled in from the country to the south.

[JohnRich 4]

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I had a feeling an ILLEGAL Ak47 was used since the media was pretty quiet about the weapons used. At least they were in the articles I read.

The media calls lots of guns an "AK47", which actually aren't. Like an ordinary SKS, with a non-detachable magazine - those are often called AK47's, when they don't have nearly the magazine capacity. Just because the paper calls it that, still doesn't mean crap.

But with the press fanning the flames, it'll probably only take a few days before a press release comes from the Brady bunch using this incident as justification to reinstitute an "assault weapon" ban.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The media calls lots of guns an "AK47", which actually aren't. Like an ordinary SKS, with a non-detachable magazine - those are often called AK47's, when they don't have nearly the magazine capacity. Just because the paper calls it that, still doesn't mean crap.

But the SKS isn't saleable in CA either, so it's still likely to be an illegal, evil assault rifle.

The rap sheet on this guy is pretty pathetic, as was the handling of him by the justice system. Jailed for armed robbery. On parole, busted for more felonies, serves only 9 more months. Parole violator again this time - 3 strikes would have applied (perhaps why he started shooting).

All in all, one total loser this world won't miss.