revisiting 911 truth in the Obama days...

[rhys 0]

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13 seconds? Wow, you're admitting that it wasn't freefall most of the time!

So if the building was demolished, how do you account for the slow collapse before the fast collapse?

So you think 13 seconds is a long time for a steel framed 47 story building to completely collapse from fire?

the whole collapse was fast, just freefall was the fasted part.

how do yo explain freefall?

is that normal, and what is expected out of buildings built for the CIA and other important agencies?

is theier reluctance to comment on it not a surprise to you?

Pull your head in mate, you're just making a fool of yourself now, to anyone that has the capacity to anylise your comments that is. the rest here will applaude you with their malable and apathetic thought processes.

13 seconds, you could almost put an ad break in beteween the start and the finish...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 3,070]

>you are not very bright are ya?

Your last warning.

[sundevil777 102]

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It did not take 6.5 seconds to collapse and it did have a gradual collapse. See the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLHwvwJCmgk

, the calculation of 6.5 seconds was take from the perimeter wall, and was intended to show the freefall accelleration, never the time of the entire collapse.

It is clearly stated in the presentation I have shown you before, but the presentation you just posted there twists what was said and uses false analysis of the information to promote a false assertion that 13 seconds is a long time for a 47 story high steel framed structure to completely collapse in.

Regardles of the total collapse time anybody has calculated, the fact remains that the main proportion of the building maintained freefall acceleration for at least 2.5 seconds, that is unprecedented for fire damage to a steel building and requires further investigation to prevent further occurances.

From the data presented by the link YOU provided, it did NOT freefall for 2.5 seconds. The velocity vs time graph had an obvious "sawtooth" characteristic. That shape could indicate error, or it can indicate that the acceleration was NOT constant. I think that even you can see that, it is unmistakable, it is in the data that you have pointed out to us.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jakee 1,563]

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They were not allowed to do their job, when one investigates something, acess to the relevant information is paramount in obtaining the correct conclusion.

Really. So what we have are a group of competent trained professionals, who are not part of the great 9/11 cover up, who were not allowed to properly investigate 9/11, and yet none of them went to the media and complained about it? None of them brought it to public attention that they felt their investigation was being compromised?

Remember the shit that weapons inspectors in Iraq kicked up prior to the invasion? Didn't get a whisper of that from the 9/11 commission. How does that work?

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The only reason to not allow acces to the suggested suspects was to hide the complicity of those involved.

Or it could be due to the labyrinthine internal politics of US Intelligence, and the obssession with secrecy in every facet of National Security under the bush Administration.

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holding the KSM trial behnd closed doors is exactly the same.

You brought this up earlier, Rhys. Remember what I asked you? Remember that I asked you why there was similar opposition to holding trials for any terrorist suspect/accused enemy combatant? Remember I pointed out that most of them have never been within a hundred miles of a high level AQ decision maker? Remember that, in light of these things, I asked you to justify your assertion that only fear of the 'truth' about 9/11 coming out could be responsible for a desire to have the trial behind closed doors, or not at all? Remember any of that?

No, of course you don't, it's too inconvenient.

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you are not very bright are ya? just s well there are other peope tpo do you thinking for you

A man once told me that the only reason people make personal attacks is because they're lemmings blindly following a story and can't make reasoned arguments. The same man bleated on and on and on about how telling it was that so many people attacked him, and about how he was the bigger man because he tried to stick to the issues. When it was pointed out that he behaved even more like a twat than those he complained about, that man said that he was turning over a new leaf and would definitely positively set a good example from now on, and comport himself with dignity, convinced of the rightness and justness of his cause.

Who was that man, Rhys?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rhys 0]

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Who was that man, Rhys?

pointing out that someone is not very bright may be a personal attack, as far as forum rules go, but someone that cannot put 2 and 2 together is not bright and if they need clarification on a simple matter, i have no desire to answer stupid questions that lead to some other straw man argument..

I'm allowed to think like that just like you are allowed to think I am a 'tin hatter' or delusional conspiracy theorist.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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A man once told me that the only reason people make personal attacks is because they're lemmings blindly following a story and can't make reasoned arguments. The same man bleated on and on and on about how telling it was that so many people attacked him, and about how he was the bigger man because he tried to stick to the issues. When it was pointed out that he behaved even more like a twat than those he complained about, that man said that he was turning over a new leaf and would definitely positively set a good example from now on, and comport himself with dignity, convinced of the rightness and justness of his cause.

Who was that man, Rhys?

i stand by my comments, I speak with dignity and I could be significantly more honest with people here but rafrain out of respect.

thet respect is seriously one way, as i am attacked,as well as many others for bringing up taboo subjects.

I could mock each and every one of you if i felt like it, i do not, I could care less about you. Constantly your theories and subject matter is evidently proven incorrect, corrupt, and misleading. yet you still refuse to accept that there is no possibility of any scenario, other than the inherently unlikey, bogus, drylabbing weak, hypothesis that has been presented is possible?

That is faith beyond faith, it is blind faith.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

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Constantly your theories and subject matter is evidently proven incorrect, corrupt, and misleading.

In what alternate universe is that happening, besides the truther one?

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yet you still refuse to accept that there is no possibility of any scenario, other than the inherently unlikey, bogus, drylabbing weak, hypothesis that has been presented is possible?

Sounds rather like you and whatever the theory of the day is at truther.com.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,563]

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I'm allowed to think like that just like you are allowed to think I am a 'tin hatter' or delusional conspiracy theorist.

So we're on the same page. Good. Now stop being such a pathetic little whiny bitch when you think people are being a bit mean to you.

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i stand by my comments, I speak with dignity

You really believe that? You're insane.

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I could mock each and every one of you if i felt like it, i do not,

You do.

You call people lemmings. You call people sheeple. You say we're liars who are too scared to deviate from the party line and you say we're idiots who can't think beyond the party line.

You show no respect for anybody on this thread. And that's cool, no-one has to be polite. But when you try and say that you are polite and respectful, and paint yourself as this persecuted demi-messianic bringer of truth it only serves to highlight just how incredibly deluded you are.


And now that's out of the way - how about those questions I asked you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DJL 235]

Rhys, where's the audio of the demolition charges going off on WTC7? And don't post that video with the guys on the phone at 10:20 AM.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 3,070]

Your one warning. Cut it out.

[rhys 0]

This truther scenario you cling to is quite convenient for you, isn't it.

Anyone that simply questions the legitimacy of the official narrative is a 'truther' and not worth considering.

What sort of liberties is your country supposed to have been built on, and how do you consdier what is written in the constitution as it pertains to your and your countrymens civil liberties?

Namely the first ammendment? do you give a shit about it?

It seems you would rather just mock anyone that has anything other than what the status quo has to say.

If you strive for that world, you strive for a dictatorship.


You should try true patriotism once in a while, and learn to differentiate between your faux patriotism and what the word actually means.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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From the data presented by the link YOU provided, it did NOT freefall for 2.5 seconds. The velocity vs time graph had an obvious "sawtooth" characteristic. That shape could indicate error, or it can indicate that the acceleration was NOT constant. I think that even you can see that, it is unmistakable, it is in the data that you have pointed out to us.

you might notice the words 'at least' in there. the building did indeed freefall, NIST admits it but they only admit 2.5 seconds...

That is enough for me, because freefall is impossible no matter what any retard says.

Freefall is gravity having no resistance other than the atmosphere, and that does not happen to a steel framed highrise let alone anything with coordanted and substancial input/removal by someone or something.

Office fires lack the symetry that would have to have occured for the official narrative to be correct.

No amount of bullshitting or comparisions can get around that.

Yet plenty of people (imbiciles) that consider themselves intellegent cannot understand that, or simply refuse to. Most are meek or apathetic and have an excuse, but those that have knowledge of the incidents but still believe the crap that has been fed, simply lack common sence.



To me it does not matter what the actual velocity or time was, it was simply too fast, inadequately explained, viciously ignored and blatantly obviously overlooked and simply lied about from the very people you and I are supposed to confide in.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[mnealtx 0]

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This truther scenario you cling to is quite convenient for you, isn't it.

Convenient? EVERY ONE of your talking points come from them.

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Anyone that simply questions the legitimacy of the official narrative is a 'truther' and not worth considering.

See above, and add in 'ignoring all empirical evidence'.

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Namely the first ammendment? do you give a shit about it?

Please, DO show where the federal government is somehow muzzling you - I'd LOVE to see the logic trail on that one.

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It seems you would rather just mock anyone that has anything other than what the status quo has to say.

No, I mock you because you IGNORE any evidence that doesn't fit the truther mold.

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If you strive for that world, you strive for a dictatorship.

*rolls eyes* Yeah, ok... whatever you say.

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You should try true patriotism once in a while, and learn to differentiate between your faux patriotism and what the word actually means.

As defined by you? Given the logic and intelligence shown so far, I'll pass.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Anyone that simply questions the legitimacy of the official narrative is a 'truther' and not worth considering.

Questioning is not the same as baseless denial.

Now, why don't you answer those questions I gave you? You keep dodging them. You are intelligent enough to answer a few easy questions, aren't you? Or are you going to act like the rest of the sheep and lemmings and blindly follow the leaders of the truther movement?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jakee 1,563]

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i stand by my comments, I speak with dignity and I could be significantly more honest with people here but rafrain out of respect....

I could mock each and every one of you if i felt like it, i do not....

It seems you would rather just mock....

Yet plenty of people (imbiciles) that consider themselves intellegent cannot understand that, or simply refuse to. Most are meek or apathetic

If just once in this whole discussion you can give a straight answer, then answer me this: Can you hear what you sound like?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rhys 0]

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Mar 26, 2010
ABC Nightline Reveals Its Agenda—Equates 9/11 Truth with Gun-Wielding Crazies
— Shawn Hamilton

Ed: The following is the body of the letter sent to ABC Nightline producer Katie Hinmanon on behalf of AE911Truth.

Chris Bury interviewing Dylan Avery, taken from Nightline clip.

ABC Nightline's piece on the 9/11 Truth Movement qualifies as nothing short of journalistic fraud. Instead of presenting an objective look at the surprisingly large numbers of people who are questioning the government's official conspiracy theory involving 19 Arabs, Chris Bury's piece was clearly intended to equate in viewers' minds those in the 9/11 Truth Movement with gun-wielding crazies like the recent "Pentagon shooter" John Patrick Bedell.

While this movement includes a wide variety people including thousands of architects, engineers, firefighters, academicians and scientists, Nightline seemed intent on creating an oversimplified caricature of what it disparagingly called a "viral community of true believers," that is, people who are crazy enough to suspect the government might be hiding something when there's no evidence to support that idea. There's actually a lot of evidence, but TV shows like Nightline are not interested in looking at it, much less refuting it. The Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth were featured as keynote speakers at the same conference that you attended and now host over 1,000 A/E petition signers—all demanding a new investigation into the destruction of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11. Why did you not ask us what evidence we might have to support our call for a re-investigation? We understand that you were even re-directed by no less than three of your interviewees to speak with us.

Korey Rowe and Dylan Avery, whose documentary, "Loose Change" provided many with their first look at problems with the official account, knew what Nightline was up to. Rowe told Bury, "They're trying already to equate us with this man (Bedell) and trying to say that the 9/11 Truth Movement is a militia, gun-toting, anti-government conspiracy [group]."

Avery told Bury, "We already know what you guys are going to do—just by the questions you asked us. It's very clear what your agenda is." Bury got a similar response from former FBI agent and whisteblower Coleen Rowley when he asked her the loaded question, "Do you think the American government helped kill innocent Americans?" Rowley told Bury the technique he was using reminded her of interrogation strategies she'd used while in the FBI. Rowley stated that the full truth is simply not known and that the 9/11 Commission has said so itself. Nightline then interviewed Lee Hamilton, vice-chairman of the 9/11 Commission, who stated, "We got the story basically right" in order to give the impression he was contradicting Rowley's claim, but that was intentionally misleading. Consider what he wrote in his book Without Precedent—that the 9/11 Commission was "set up to fail" by the Bush Administration. And what John Farmer, Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission wrote on page four of his book, The Ground Truth: "At some level of government, at some point in time, there was an agreement not to tell the people the truth about what happened."

Lee Hamilton told Nightline, "When they bring these theories of what happened forward, the appropriate question is, 'What evidence do you have of that?' And if they have evidence, then let's examine it in the court of public opinion." We may be on the same page with Lee Hamilton after all. This is exactly what groups like ours want to see happen. For instance, why did World Trade Center Building 7, which was never hit by an airplane, collapse suddenly, smoothly, straight down into its own footprint at free-fall acceleration?

This is a question for an enterprising, seasoned journalist like Chris Bury of Nightline to pursue—especially since there is abundant evidence of the incendiary "thermite" in the molten iron found in the rubble of all three WTC skyscrapers. And since the explosive composite "nano-thermite" was found in all four samples of pulverized concrete that was tested, that laid like a blanket throughout lower Manhattan.

The massive amount of concrete powder contained evidence of the explosive "thermite"

Richard Gage, AIA, founder of AE911Truth stated, "These technical professionals are staking their licenses, degrees, and reputation not on conspiracy theories but on the scientific, forensic evidence that speaks for itself. We have no other agenda than for the public to be aware of this evidence that was eliminated from the official reports."

Here is a partial list of the evidence demanding further investigation:

•Rapid onset of collapse of all three WTC skyscrapers.

•Sounds of explosions at the onset of collapse

•Symmetrical collapse — through the path of what should have been the greatest resistance—at nearly free-fall acceleration (i.e. the columns offered no resistance; therefore, they must have been instantly "removed")

•WTC 7 collapsed nearly into its own footprint with the steel skeleton almost completely broken up. The Twin Towers on the other hand were extremely explosive—hurling 9-ton steel sections laterally 600 feet at 60 mph.


Steel beams blown 600 feet at 60 mph

•Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like dust clouds

•Several tons of molten metal found at the base of the buildings by credible witnesses.

•Evidence of thermite (an incendiary used to cut through steel) found in beams, slag and iron spheres in all the dust samples

•Inter-granular melting and evaporation of steel structure found and documented by FEMA in App. "C")

•Expert corroboration from controlled demolition professionals

•Foreknowledge of WTC collapse by media

The details can be found at www.AE911Truth.org, and are available to anyone who wants to look at them, yet Nightline representatives chose to devote their attention to mischaracterizing members of the 9/11 Truth Movement instead of actually confronting the evidence. What is their agenda?

source click to see photos and more information.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rushmc 23]

You and yours have been exposed?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sundevil777 102]

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From the data presented by the link YOU provided, it did NOT freefall for 2.5 seconds. The velocity vs time graph had an obvious "sawtooth" characteristic. That shape could indicate error, or it can indicate that the acceleration was NOT constant. I think that even you can see that, it is unmistakable, it is in the data that you have pointed out to us.

you might notice the words 'at least' in there. the building did indeed freefall, NIST admits it but they only admit 2.5 seconds...

That is enough for me, because freefall is impossible no matter what any retard says.

Freefall is gravity having no resistance other than the atmosphere, and that does not happen to a steel framed highrise let alone anything with coordanted and substancial input/removal by someone or something.

Office fires lack the symetry that would have to have occured for the official narrative to be correct.

No amount of bullshitting or comparisions can get around that.

Yet plenty of people (imbiciles) that consider themselves intellegent cannot understand that, or simply refuse to. Most are meek or apathetic and have an excuse, but those that have knowledge of the incidents but still believe the crap that has been fed, simply lack common sence.

To me it does not matter what the actual velocity or time was, it was simply too fast, inadequately explained, viciously ignored and blatantly obviously overlooked and simply lied about from the very people you and I are supposed to confide in.

It should matter to you what the actual velocity vs time was. That data as presented by your guy's video showed that the accel was NOT constant, it was NOT freefall for the 2.5 sec. It had a sawtooth characteristic that was obvious. That means that the acceleration was intermittently reduced. It is very apparent. Can't you see that? Stop implying that others are meek, apathetic, or imbeciles. Please stop bullshitting and take a closer look at the same data you asked us to look at.

And still, it is worthless to say that it was "simply too fast". If truthers don't have an estimate for what it should have been, then you got nothing.

Your guy's analysis was very superficial. the slope of his "best fit" line depends very much on over what time period he applies the best fit. If he had adjusted the start/end point for the best fit it can greatly affect the result. I think he likely chose a start and end data point that gave the highest accel, and that is where his analysis ended. If he had used the physics toolkit to determine the accel over more limited time periods, it would have shown that the accel had a LOT of variation.

Please address this. It is exactly to the point of what you requested us to take a look at. Now that it is under scrutiny, you seem to want to dismiss the result. If you're going to give up on this point about freefall for 2.5 seconds, then, please admit it.

If you actually hold the position that, "To me it does not matter what the actual velocity or time was", then you are acknowledging that your guy's video does not support your assertions, like so many other assertions are proved wrong, and then you go on to some other supposed proof of your conspiracy theory.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jakee 1,563]

Do you think the American government helped kill innocent Americans?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DJL 235]

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•WTC 7 collapsed nearly into its own footprint with the steel skeleton almost completely broken up.

Where's the audio of the demolition charges?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Again and again and again you post and re-post the same ridiculous accusations that have been disproven and debunked every time.
So why won't you answer my fairly simple questions?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Namely the first ammendment? do you give a shit about it?

And how has it been disregarded?

You're being allowed to practice your religion without any government interference. However, no one else is under any obligation to join you.

If you want to exercise your freedom of assembly, you're quite welcome to do your own million man march on DC. However, like all of the other recent ones, the actual number will be lower than 1 million. In your case, I'm guessing about 200 of the 1007 will bother to make it.

[rhys 0]

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It should matter to you what the actual velocity vs time was. That data as presented by your guy's video showed that the accel was NOT constant, it was NOT freefall for the 2.5 sec. It had a sawtooth characteristic that was obvious.

tell me, do you have your own hypothesis or are you inclined to accept NIST's?

Before we go any further you must clarify that, because it seems you have your own argument?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[sundevil777 102]

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It should matter to you what the actual velocity vs time was. That data as presented by your guy's video showed that the accel was NOT constant, it was NOT freefall for the 2.5 sec. It had a sawtooth characteristic that was obvious.

tell me, do you have your own hypothesis or are you inclined to accept NIST's?

Before we go any further you must clarify that, because it seems you have your own argument?

I do not have my own hypothesis, It is not that I "accept" the NIST conclusions, I just don't think there is anything mysterious about what happened. I think that truthers are not satisfied with the official investigation because the the conspiracy theories are not really taken seriously, and the official reports can reflect that. You must also realize that the official investigation is asked by truthers to evaluate a never ending list of "questions".

So, I've answered your question directly. How about addressing the sawtooth shape of your guy's vel vs time data? It is unmistakable. It is either the result of error (showing no reason to accept the overall conclusion of 1g accel), or it shows that there was in fact intermittent, significant resistance to the fall of the building. Which is it? You claim objectivity, an open mind, so demonstrate it.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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You claim objectivity, an open mind, so demonstrate it.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.