BDashe 0 #1 March 25, 2009 http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/obama.news.conference/index.html "...when we all work together, when each of us looks beyond our own short-term interest to the wider set of obligations we have towards each other, that's when we succeed" "We've got to make some tough budgetary choices" "Asked whether he would sign a budget that doesn't include a middle-class tax cut, Obama said he has "emphasized repeatedly" what his expectations are." "I haven't seen yet what provisions are in there," Obama said. "The bottom line is that I want to see health care, energy, education and serious efforts to reduce our budget deficit." Raise your hand if you're surprised no one is going to get any tax breaks. Say whatever will get you elected, and do whatever you want once you are...So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #2 March 25, 2009 Oh, sorry. That was a misunderstanding. I really meant tax increases for 95% of Americans. But we should be able to hold off for another few years by just racking up more debt... But it's all George Bush's fault, so it's ok.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 March 25, 2009 My Federal taxes went down in the paycheck I get next week. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #4 March 25, 2009 Yeah, taking pay cuts suck ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 March 25, 2009 When both Obama and McCain promised tax cuts, what they really meant to say is cuts from what will happen next year when the Bush 2001/02 cuts start expiring, not from what you're paying now. That is predicated on Congress actually passing a new package, else everyone is going to see an increase. But they still have at least the rest of this year, and practically speaking a good portion of next year to actually do it. The concern should be the deficit picture, which may be so bad still that even the tax cut loving Republicans can't bring themselves to do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #6 March 25, 2009 Quote The concern should be the deficit picture, which may be so bad still that even the tax cut loving Republicans can't bring themselves to do it. Hmmm... So since our nat'l debt is huge, and the deficit is pretty darn large so we cant even start to pay off the debt... I've got it! Let's promise lower taxes and spend a trillion more!!!! Yes! That's GOT to be the answer! edit: not a jab at you directly kelp, but at what is currently going on So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #7 March 25, 2009 QuoteOh, sorry. That was a misunderstanding. I really meant tax increases for 95% of Americans. But we should be able to hold off for another few years by just racking up more debt... Not directly, since in 2007 43% of tax return filers had no liability or had a negative tax rate due to refundable credits and the trend is towards ever more progressive income taxes with America currently ranked first or second in the OECD for having the highest share of the income tax burden borne by the top earning decile. If you just look at the ratio of tax percentage to income percentage we're first ahead of Ireland, Italy, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands, Czech Republic, Germany, Finland, the Slovak Republic, Luxembouorg, Belgium, Austria, Jorean, Poland, Japan, Norway, France, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, and Switzerland. http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23856.html The Economist has printed more interesting graphs which are broken down at least by quintile; maybe some one can dig them up. Indirectly, 100% of us will have a higher tax burden since we depend on imports and the influx of money is going to devalue the dollar. With the costs of living so much higher in the first world, we're not going to bring manufacturing home to compensate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #8 March 25, 2009 Who was the last elected President that promised to increase taxes? I don't think anyone believed Obama or McCain when they promised to lower taxes, just like they didn't believe Bush or Kerry or Gore or Clinton or ..... the best you can hope for is a Bush Sr that promises not to raise taxes (and then does anyway).Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #9 March 25, 2009 I'm just saying, the guy was hating on the right wingers because they were giving tax breaks to everyone (including the top 5%)- however the righties generally follow through with reducing taxes and increasing tax breaks. The right hates on obama because he planned to raise taxes on the top 5% significantly. Obama retorts by repeatedly saying he is cutting taxes for 95% of americans, and offering MORE tax breaks for the middle class (most of the voters, funny how that works out) than the other guy- that has been one of his main selling points since he started- universal healthcare and much lower taxes for middle class. Now, less than 75 days in office he is effectively retracting what he has said for 2 years. He steps in and changes a couple easy commander in chief things like closing gitmo and opening the door to stem cell research. You know, to really show us americans how much different he is from the old administration and he has brought change! Then, when push really comes to shove, he starts to shy away from the stuff that really matters and falls back on his party line of tax and spend. Where is the reaching across the isle that was promised? Where are my tax cuts? Truthfully, we all saw this coming from a mile away. McCain may have been no better at reaching across the isle, but at least he'd be more responsible with our money.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #10 March 25, 2009 QuoteNot directly, since in 2007 43% of tax return filers had no liability or had a negative tax rate due to refundable credits and the trend is towards ever more progressive income taxes with America currently ranked first or second in the OECD for having the highest share of the income tax burden borne by the top earning decile. If you just look at the ratio of tax percentage to income percentage we're first ahead of Ireland, Italy, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands, Czech Republic, Germany, Finland, the Slovak Republic, Luxembouorg, Belgium, Austria, Jorean, Poland, Japan, Norway, France, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, and Switzerland. Wow. Thanks for posting that. I'm seriously researching a change of venue now.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #11 March 25, 2009 Quote however the righties generally follow through with reducing taxes and increasing tax breaks. I guess that depends on how generally you use the word generally I would have to see figures that prove your statement before believing that. Quote He steps in and changes a couple easy commander in chief things like closing gitmo and opening the door to stem cell research. Well, he's been in office two months, and got a lot done from his original agenda in that time. I'll have to see how he does over the next four years (or at least a couple) before I make judgement about this. In general, I don't trust politicians, and I am not totally supportive of Obama and his promises - I'm not sure anyone could keep them all, and there are a lot.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #12 March 26, 2009 Quote Truthfully, we all saw this coming from a mile away. McCain may have been no better at reaching across the isle, but at least he'd be more responsible with our money. some of us thought that about Bush over Gore, and yet see how that turned out. We should have known better - Reagan and Bush Sr behaved exactly the same way Bush Jr did. Any claim that McCain would have been more responsible is unprovable, yet rather suspect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #13 March 26, 2009 From March 14th, NY Times...tax changes for 95% of Americans The revised plan. It contains a lot of facts that are worth discussing, but nobody seems to want to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #14 March 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteIf you just look at the ratio of tax percentage to income percentage we're first ahead of Ireland, Italy, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands, Czech Republic, Germany, Finland, the Slovak Republic, Luxembouorg, Belgium, Austria, Jorean, Poland, Japan, Norway, France, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, and Switzerland. I don't give a shit how we compare to other countries. That's not the point. This is OUR country, OUR government, and OUR tax system. The only comparison should be what OUR taxes are compared to what OUR taxes should be. And the answer is lower.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #15 March 26, 2009 Quote I don't give a shit how we compare to other countries. That's not the point. This is OUR country, OUR government, and OUR tax system. The only comparison should be what OUR taxes are compared to what OUR taxes should be. And the answer is lower. I can do that comparison too. Prior to 1913 there was no federal income tax. The 1913 income tax law allowed a $3000 exemption for single people ($62,197 in 2007 dollars) and $4000 for married couples ($82,930). The next $20,000 ($414,650) was taxed at 1%. Robber barons raking in $500,000 a year ($10,366,244) paid the top tax rate of 7%. The current exemptions are $9350 for singles and $18700 for couples, which are off by a factor of 6.6 and 4.3. The lowest tax bracket is 10% capped at $8350 and $16700 so the rate there is off by a factor of 10 and bracket end off by factors of 24 and 49 for single and married people. The highest tax bracket is 35% starting at $372,950 with a rate off by a factor of 5 and minimum income a factor of 27. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #16 March 26, 2009 Not to worry - our turn at the cash cow is coming soon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #17 March 26, 2009 QuoteWho was the last elected President that promised to increase taxes? I don't think anyone believed Obama or McCain when they promised to lower taxes, just like they didn't believe Bush or Kerry or Gore or Clinton or ..... the best you can hope for is a Bush Sr that promises not to raise taxes (and then does anyway). So it's ok for Obama to do whatever he wants because Pesidents before him have done the same. The logic, or lack thereof, is astounding. Not only is there no change, but his actions are now being defended as a lack of change. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Capt.Slog 0 #18 March 26, 2009 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/obama.news.conference/index.html "...when we all work together, when each of us looks beyond our own short-term interest to the wider set of obligations we have towards each other, that's when we succeed" "We've got to make some tough budgetary choices" "Asked whether he would sign a budget that doesn't include a middle-class tax cut, Obama said he has "emphasized repeatedly" what his expectations are." "I haven't seen yet what provisions are in there," Obama said. "The bottom line is that I want to see health care, energy, education and serious efforts to reduce our budget deficit." Raise your hand if you're surprised no one is going to get any tax breaks. Say whatever will get you elected, and do whatever you want once you are... In your desperate anxiety to slam Obama, you hava developed a really bad case of "sentence first, trial later." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likearock 2 #19 March 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteOh, sorry. That was a misunderstanding. I really meant tax increases for 95% of Americans. But we should be able to hold off for another few years by just racking up more debt... Not directly, since in 2007 43% of tax return filers had no liability or had a negative tax rate due to refundable credits and the trend is towards ever more progressive income taxes with America currently ranked first or second in the OECD for having the highest share of the income tax burden borne by the top earning decile. If you just look at the ratio of tax percentage to income percentage we're first ahead of Ireland, Italy, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands, Czech Republic, Germany, Finland, the Slovak Republic, Luxembouorg, Belgium, Austria, Jorean, Poland, Japan, Norway, France, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, and Switzerland. http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23856.html That's a very indirect way of looking at comparative tax rates. Here's a more direct one that simply compares the world-wide rates: http://www.worldtaxpayers.org/statmarg.htm As you can see, the US is near the bottom in terms of both average and higher income marginal rates. I suspect the larger contribution of the upper decile in your stats is due the greater disparity of earnings between the deciles in the US compared to the rest of the world. Here's another graphic that shows how the US individual rates are comparatively low. It also shows how the US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Maybe that's the one we should be concerned with instead. If we could somehow put politics aside (yeah, right), it's clear the best way to stimulate the economy while still being responsible about the deficit is to cut the corporate and raise the individual rates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BDashe 0 #20 March 26, 2009 Quote In your desperate anxiety to slam Obama, you hava developed a really bad case of "sentence first, trial later." Don't get your panties in a bunch because I am calling your boy out. I'm happy to wait and see what happens, but all indicators point to O 'changing' his stance on a few key items... desperate anxiety to slam Obama? Really? If that's your interpretation, I hope the weather is warm on mars. Yeah, I don't agree with the guy's policies, but why not share what the guy is actually saying? Yes, my opinion on his words are at the bottom of the post, but 'desperate anxiety to slam' in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think? Sounds to me like you've got a personal problem...So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #21 March 26, 2009 QuoteIn your desperate anxiety to slam Obama... Every time you use a sentence like the above, you're also demonstrating your own "desperate anxiety" to prop up support for your golden child Obama, despite the fact that he is bankrupting and socializing the country, which are things Americans don't want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #22 March 26, 2009 Quotewhich are things Americans don't want. Some Americans do not want that, others do. The balance is trying to do what the executive feels is best for all Americans, not just one side of the argument.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #23 March 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteWho was the last elected President that promised to increase taxes? I don't think anyone believed Obama or McCain when they promised to lower taxes, just like they didn't believe Bush or Kerry or Gore or Clinton or ..... the best you can hope for is a Bush Sr that promises not to raise taxes (and then does anyway). So it's ok for Obama to do whatever he wants because Pesidents before him have done the same. The logic, or lack thereof, is astounding. Not only is there no change, but his actions are now being defended as a lack of change. It is a way of avoiding personal accountability for actions. "...but Mom... everyone was doing it." In this fashion, no action or topic can ever be discussed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #24 March 27, 2009 Quote It is a way of avoiding personal accountability for actions. "...but Mom... everyone was doing it." You are all free to run for President yourself on the platform that you will raise taxes Some things you can change, others you never will.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BDashe 0 #25 March 27, 2009 I guess I'm just really frustrated when the right takes such heat for not following through on their tax promises (though bush2 did make cuts!) yet when one of the KEY issues for obama was to cut taxes for 95% of americans (and I've seen that quoted in these forums a bunch, ahem, billv, ahem ) and he is clearly not going to anytime soon- that it just slides under the radar and no one says anything. For as much as i follow politics, i really really really f*cking hate them. All I can ever be is disappointed at best with these idiots. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
DrewEckhardt 0 #15 March 26, 2009 Quote I don't give a shit how we compare to other countries. That's not the point. This is OUR country, OUR government, and OUR tax system. The only comparison should be what OUR taxes are compared to what OUR taxes should be. And the answer is lower. I can do that comparison too. Prior to 1913 there was no federal income tax. The 1913 income tax law allowed a $3000 exemption for single people ($62,197 in 2007 dollars) and $4000 for married couples ($82,930). The next $20,000 ($414,650) was taxed at 1%. Robber barons raking in $500,000 a year ($10,366,244) paid the top tax rate of 7%. The current exemptions are $9350 for singles and $18700 for couples, which are off by a factor of 6.6 and 4.3. The lowest tax bracket is 10% capped at $8350 and $16700 so the rate there is off by a factor of 10 and bracket end off by factors of 24 and 49 for single and married people. The highest tax bracket is 35% starting at $372,950 with a rate off by a factor of 5 and minimum income a factor of 27. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #16 March 26, 2009 Not to worry - our turn at the cash cow is coming soon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #17 March 26, 2009 QuoteWho was the last elected President that promised to increase taxes? I don't think anyone believed Obama or McCain when they promised to lower taxes, just like they didn't believe Bush or Kerry or Gore or Clinton or ..... the best you can hope for is a Bush Sr that promises not to raise taxes (and then does anyway). So it's ok for Obama to do whatever he wants because Pesidents before him have done the same. The logic, or lack thereof, is astounding. Not only is there no change, but his actions are now being defended as a lack of change. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #18 March 26, 2009 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/obama.news.conference/index.html "...when we all work together, when each of us looks beyond our own short-term interest to the wider set of obligations we have towards each other, that's when we succeed" "We've got to make some tough budgetary choices" "Asked whether he would sign a budget that doesn't include a middle-class tax cut, Obama said he has "emphasized repeatedly" what his expectations are." "I haven't seen yet what provisions are in there," Obama said. "The bottom line is that I want to see health care, energy, education and serious efforts to reduce our budget deficit." Raise your hand if you're surprised no one is going to get any tax breaks. Say whatever will get you elected, and do whatever you want once you are... In your desperate anxiety to slam Obama, you hava developed a really bad case of "sentence first, trial later." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #19 March 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteOh, sorry. That was a misunderstanding. I really meant tax increases for 95% of Americans. But we should be able to hold off for another few years by just racking up more debt... Not directly, since in 2007 43% of tax return filers had no liability or had a negative tax rate due to refundable credits and the trend is towards ever more progressive income taxes with America currently ranked first or second in the OECD for having the highest share of the income tax burden borne by the top earning decile. If you just look at the ratio of tax percentage to income percentage we're first ahead of Ireland, Italy, Australia, the UK, New Zealand, Canada, the Netherlands, Czech Republic, Germany, Finland, the Slovak Republic, Luxembouorg, Belgium, Austria, Jorean, Poland, Japan, Norway, France, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, and Switzerland. http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23856.html That's a very indirect way of looking at comparative tax rates. Here's a more direct one that simply compares the world-wide rates: http://www.worldtaxpayers.org/statmarg.htm As you can see, the US is near the bottom in terms of both average and higher income marginal rates. I suspect the larger contribution of the upper decile in your stats is due the greater disparity of earnings between the deciles in the US compared to the rest of the world. Here's another graphic that shows how the US individual rates are comparatively low. It also shows how the US has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Maybe that's the one we should be concerned with instead. If we could somehow put politics aside (yeah, right), it's clear the best way to stimulate the economy while still being responsible about the deficit is to cut the corporate and raise the individual rates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #20 March 26, 2009 Quote In your desperate anxiety to slam Obama, you hava developed a really bad case of "sentence first, trial later." Don't get your panties in a bunch because I am calling your boy out. I'm happy to wait and see what happens, but all indicators point to O 'changing' his stance on a few key items... desperate anxiety to slam Obama? Really? If that's your interpretation, I hope the weather is warm on mars. Yeah, I don't agree with the guy's policies, but why not share what the guy is actually saying? Yes, my opinion on his words are at the bottom of the post, but 'desperate anxiety to slam' in this situation is a little far fetched dont you think? Sounds to me like you've got a personal problem...So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #21 March 26, 2009 QuoteIn your desperate anxiety to slam Obama... Every time you use a sentence like the above, you're also demonstrating your own "desperate anxiety" to prop up support for your golden child Obama, despite the fact that he is bankrupting and socializing the country, which are things Americans don't want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #22 March 26, 2009 Quotewhich are things Americans don't want. Some Americans do not want that, others do. The balance is trying to do what the executive feels is best for all Americans, not just one side of the argument.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #23 March 27, 2009 QuoteQuoteWho was the last elected President that promised to increase taxes? I don't think anyone believed Obama or McCain when they promised to lower taxes, just like they didn't believe Bush or Kerry or Gore or Clinton or ..... the best you can hope for is a Bush Sr that promises not to raise taxes (and then does anyway). So it's ok for Obama to do whatever he wants because Pesidents before him have done the same. The logic, or lack thereof, is astounding. Not only is there no change, but his actions are now being defended as a lack of change. It is a way of avoiding personal accountability for actions. "...but Mom... everyone was doing it." In this fashion, no action or topic can ever be discussed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #24 March 27, 2009 Quote It is a way of avoiding personal accountability for actions. "...but Mom... everyone was doing it." You are all free to run for President yourself on the platform that you will raise taxes Some things you can change, others you never will.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #25 March 27, 2009 I guess I'm just really frustrated when the right takes such heat for not following through on their tax promises (though bush2 did make cuts!) yet when one of the KEY issues for obama was to cut taxes for 95% of americans (and I've seen that quoted in these forums a bunch, ahem, billv, ahem ) and he is clearly not going to anytime soon- that it just slides under the radar and no one says anything. For as much as i follow politics, i really really really f*cking hate them. All I can ever be is disappointed at best with these idiots. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
