Skydiving is bad for the environment

[pilotsR4pimps 0]

thats why I am getting into paragliding!!!!!! I'll keep jumping though. Just a little less

[billvon 2,998]

>So is growing food and raising animals to eat or even animals in the wild
>maybe we should kill all animals and quit groing food?

Uh, no. All those things can be done with minimal harm to the environment.

Although his order is a bit screwed up, the writer has a good point. It _is_ a problem. I am glad we are working through those problems and (slowly) starting to switch to cleaner sources of energy and better farming methods.

Aviation has a unique problem - changes come very slowly and reliability trumps every other consideration. (Which is as it should be.) In a way, things like higher mileage cars, electric cars and natural gas cars help out aviation by saving the fossil fuels for the one application where it's _not_ easy to replace them - airplanes.

[JohnRich 4]

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thats why I am getting into paragliding!!!!!!

Do you realize how much fossil fuel has to be used to produce the aluminum and nylon from which your glider is made? Paragliders should be outlawed!

[squarecanopy 0]

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thats why I am getting into paragliding!!!!!!

Do you realize how much fossil fuel has to be used to produce the aluminum and nylon from which your glider is made? Paragliders should be outlawed!

Along with GUNS. And CARS. And HOUSES. And BIG BUILDINGS. We should all live in bark huts in the wilderness and eat roots and wild berries and play with sticks and rocks.

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[Coreece 190]

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Along with GUNS. And CARS. And HOUSES. And BIG BUILDINGS. We should all live in bark huts in the wilderness and eat roots and wild berries and play with sticks and rocks.

I was thinking of getting a self contained breathing aparatus that will eliminate cabon dioxide emmissions as I breathe...

For entertainment, I plan to just go down into my basement and hop around in a circle.

Probably should just drink my urine condensation too....

Also, is there some sort of process that will make it safe for me to eat my own shit? That could be real beneficial.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 2,998]

>I was thinking of getting a self contained breathing aparatus that will >eliminate cabon dioxide emmissions as I breathe...

Sure, they're called "plants" and you can get em at any garden supply center. They're the green things.

>For entertainment, I plan to just go down into my basement and
>hop around in a circle.

Bully for you!

>Probably should just drink my urine condensation too....

Just pee on the plants. They'll like it.

>Also, is there some sort of process that will make it safe for me to eat my own shit?

Yes. It's called "gardening" (or "farming" if you do it big time.) Via several magical processes, gardens can turn shit into tomatoes, lima beans, squash and snap peas.

[Misternatural 0]

>>Sure, they're called "plants" They're the green things.


AHAHAHAHAHA!

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[rehmwa 2]

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We should all live in bark huts in the wilderness and eat roots and wild berries and play with sticks and rocks.

ya know? that's not a bad vacation. But it's a lousy lifestyle

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Coreece 190]

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Sure, they're called "plants" and you can get em at any garden supply center. They're the green things.

I was thinkg more along the lines of something like a Draeger LAR V unit....but I'll have to check out these "plants" that you speak of...what about the purple ones?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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>Sure, they're called "plants" They're the green things.


>>AHAHAHAHAHA!

Stop Laughing at me!

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Misternatural 0]

sorry man- Bill cracks me up...his humor is so dry no plant could survive.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[JohnRich 4]

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Just pee on the plants. They'll like it.

Not really. Urine contains salts which can actually poison plants. I spent years peeing on plants in the desert thinking that I was helping them with rare moisture. Only to find out later that it actually hurts them. The Park Service even advises against it.

[Coreece 190]

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I spent years peeing on plants in the desert

Dude, you've been cracking me up lately...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 2,998]

>Not really. Urine contains salts which can actually poison plants.

True. If you pee on them a lot and it doesn't rain where you are much (like in the desert) it can hurt them through the salts that accumulate in the soil.

On the plus side, if you dilute it with water (1 part urine to 10 parts water) it makes a pretty good fertilizer, and the water dilutes the salts to below levels that will bother the plants.

[idodsick 0]

i remember one day waiting for a load when one of the tandem students says "you guys are so cool. its like you have this peaceful little hippy commune here.".
the camera flier turns around and looks at her and the rest of the load and says "yeah we drink smoothies, eat salads and granola bars, and burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuel everyday!". i started laughing my ass off when he looked at me and says "stefan you are an operator too (we both run heavy equipment) there is another 80 gallons per day.". she was rather quiet the ride up.
i will admit i try and make a small footprint but compared to these huge multi-national manufacturing corporations a think skydiving ranks pretty small on the carbon scale.

the diamond can not be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials.

[rehmwa 2]

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i remember one day waiting for a load when one of the tandem students says "you guys are so cool. its like you have this peaceful little hippy commune here.".
the camera flier turns around and looks at her and the rest of the load and says "yeah we drink smoothies, eat salads and granola bars, and burn thousands of gallons of fossil fuel everyday!". i started laughing my ass off when he looked at me and says "stefan you are an operator too (we both run heavy equipment) there is another 80 gallons per day.". she was rather quiet the ride up. great post to here
i will admit i try and make a small footprint but compared to these huge multi-national manufacturing corporations a think skydiving ranks pretty small on the carbon scale. and then the guilt and self rationalization kicks in and spoils it with a stock statement straight from the handbook

I believe some huge multi-nationals use their footprints to make life saving drugs and equipment, information resources, technology that saves lives, etc - what do you do with your footprint?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

Bollocks. And thats all I have to say about that.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 2,998]

>i will admit i try and make a small footprint but compared to these huge
>multi-national manufacturing corporations a think skydiving ranks pretty small
>on the carbon scale.

It does, but it doesn't mean we can't make it better. Some approaches:

http://www.biodieselinvesting.com/biodiesel-archives/2007/11/19/billionaire-branson-announces-biofuel-aircraft-testing/

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/08/the-company-cla.html

http://www.age85.org/ActiveProjects.htm

[marks2065 0]

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You know, I would be willing to bet that cows farting fuck up the planet worse than any of us skyjumping types. Although, I have no factual evidence to back this up.

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maybe you can get that study to be combined with the pig smell part of the stimulus bill

[marks2065 0]

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>i will admit i try and make a small footprint but compared to these huge
>multi-national manufacturing corporations a think skydiving ranks pretty small
>on the carbon scale.

It does, but it doesn't mean we can't make it better. Some approaches:

http://www.biodieselinvesting.com/biodiesel-archives/2007/11/19/billionaire-branson-announces-biofuel-aircraft-testing/

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/08/the-company-cla.html

http://www.age85.org/ActiveProjects.htm

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to bad the regulations on bio diesel are so bad that the damage to the fuel systems and engines far outways any climate savings that bio deisel could have ever saved to this point. Try telling a deisel owner that his greener footprint just cost him over $6000 in repairs to his fuel system and that emmisions spent to build his new parts far outway what he saved by running biodeisel.

[rehmwa 2]

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You know, I would be willing to bet that cows farting fuck up the planet worse than any of us skyjumping types. Although, I have no factual evidence to back this up.

nonsense, Congress outlawed cow farting last year. Enviro congressmen got a TON of votes from their enviromentally active constituents for "taking a stand and making the tough decisions to save the planet"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,998]

>to bad the regulations on bio diesel are so bad that the damage to the fuel
>systems and engines far outways any climate savings that bio deisel could
>have ever saved to this point.

?? I think you're confusing a few things here.

First is low sulfur fuel. That's a new regulation, and some engines have trouble with it because it's a better solvent; it cleans out all the crap left by the dirtier fuel. The classic case is:

1) Guy uses regular diesel for 20 years, builds up lots of gunk
2) He switches over to ULSD and doesn't change any fuel filters
3) All the gunk gets loose, fouls his injectors and creates problems.

Not much option here, since ULSD is required for air quality reasons now.

However, if a diesel will run on ULSD, it will have no problems with biodiesel since it's also a low sulfur fuel (and a good solvent.)

Note that the above does not apply to SVO (straight vegetable oil.) Diesels will run on that but they require a LOT of work to do that, like fuel heaters.

>Try telling a deisel owner that his greener footprint just cost him over $6000
>in repairs to his fuel system and that emmisions spent to build his new parts far
>outway what he saved by running biodeisel.

Or he could change a $20 fuel filter and save the $6000. Up to him.

[Misternatural 0]

Did someone say biodiesel?


Been running my own home made brew in a JD tractor for a few years now...no problems. Some engines and fuel systems can tolerate the corrosive effects of the solvent component much better than others, but for a little education on the subject-Here's a short explanation from Biodieselnow.org:

Sometimes folks ask a simple question: "What is biodiesel?".

Biodiesel is a vegetable oil-based fuel that runs in unmodified diesel engines - cars, buses, trucks, construction equipment, boats, generators, and oil home heating units. Biodiesel is usually made from soy or canola oil, and can also be made from recycled fryer oil (yes, from McDonalds or your local Chinese restaurant) or any other vegetable oil or animal tallow.

You can blend biodiesel with regular diesel or run 100% biodiesel. You can blend your percentages of biodiesel-to-diesel fuel at any ratio, at any time. This means you can be running b100 (100% biodiesel), get down to a quarter tank and add regular petroluem diesel and essentially be running b25 (25% biodiesel), then get down to near empty and add straight petroleum, straight biodiesel, or any percentage in between.

What are the benefits?
1) National security. Since biodiesel is made domestically, biodiesel reduces our dependence on foreign oil. That's good.

2) National economy. Using biodiesel keeps our fuel buying dollars at home instead of sending it to foreign countries. This reduces our trade deficit and creates jobs.

3) It's sustainable & non-toxic. Face it, we're going to run out of oil eventually. Biodiesel is 100% renewable... we'll never run out of biodiesel. And if biodiesel gets into your water supply, there's no problem - it's just modified veggie oil! Heck, you can drink biodiesel if you so desire, but it tastes nasty (trust us).
(Learn more)

4) Emissions. Biodiesel is nearly carbon-neutral, meaning it contributes almost zero emissions to global warming! Biodiesel also dramatically reduces other emissions fairly dramatically. We like clean air, how about you? Plus, the exhaust smells like popcorn or french fries!
(Learn more)

5) Engine life. Studies have shown biodiesel reduces engine wear by as much as one half, primarily because biodiesel provides excellent lubricity. Even a 2% biodiesel/98% diesel blend will help.
(Learn more)

6) Drivability. We have yet to meet anyone who doesn't notice an immediate smoothing of the engine with biodiesel. Biodiesel just runs quieter, and produces less smoke.

Are there any negatives?
Of course. There is no perfect fuel.
1) Primarily that biodiesel is not readily available in much of the nation, YET (click here for a map of locations), although availability has jumped considerably in the last five years. Commercial consumption of biodiesel jumped from 500,000 gallons in 2000 to 15 million gallons in 2001 to 75 million gallons in 2006. And there's no measure how much home-produced biodiesel there is.

2) Biodiesel will clean your injectors and fuel lines. If you have an old diesel vehicle, there's a chance that your first few tanks of biodiesel could free up all the accumulated crud and clog your fuel filter. But this is a GOOD thing... think of it as kicking up dust around the house when you clean.

3) Biodiesel has a higher gel point. B100 (100% biodiesel) gets slushy a little under 32°F. But B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% regular diesel - more commonly available than B100) has a gel point of -15°F. Like regular diesel, the gel point can be lowered further with additives such as kerosene (blended into winter diesel in cold-weather areas).

4) Old vehicles (older than mid-90s) might require upgrades of fuel lines (a cheap, easy upgrade), as biodiesel can eat through certain types of rubber. Almost all new vehicles should have no problem with biodiesel.

5) Finally, the one emission that goes up with biodiesel is NOx. NOx contributes to smog. We feel that a slight increase (up to 15%) in NOx is greatly offset by the reduction in all other emissions and the major reduction in greenhouse gasses.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[marks2065 0]

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>to bad the regulations on bio diesel are so bad that the damage to the fuel
>systems and engines far outways any climate savings that bio deisel could
>have ever saved to this point.

?? I think you're confusing a few things here.

First is low sulfur fuel. That's a new regulation, and some engines have trouble with it because it's a better solvent; it cleans out all the crap left by the dirtier fuel. The classic case is:

1) Guy uses regular diesel for 20 years, builds up lots of gunk
2) He switches over to ULSD and doesn't change any fuel filters
3) All the gunk gets loose, fouls his injectors and creates problems.

Not much option here, since ULSD is required for air quality reasons now.

However, if a diesel will run on ULSD, it will have no problems with biodiesel since it's also a low sulfur fuel (and a good solvent.)

Note that the above does not apply to SVO (straight vegetable oil.) Diesels will run on that but they require a LOT of work to do that, like fuel heaters.

>Try telling a deisel owner that his greener footprint just cost him over $6000
>in repairs to his fuel system and that emmisions spent to build his new parts far
>outway what he saved by running biodeisel.

Or he could change a $20 fuel filter and save the $6000. Up to him.

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there are some fuel systems that can't handle some grades of bio deisel and do ruin the injectors. the newer electronic injectors can get ruined and it is not just a fuel filter replacement. GM currantly has a service buliten voiding warranties on a couple of their engines if poor quality bio deisel has been used.

[billvon 2,998]

>there are some fuel systems that can't handle some grades of bio
>deisel and do ruin the injectors.

Yep. Of course there are some grades of regular diesel that ruin the injectors as well. You can't just put crap in any vehicle and expect it to run well.

But when you use good biodiesel vs good regular diesel you shouldn't have any problems.