christelsabine 1 #76 April 6, 2009 Quote Quote ...never ever there was any need to teach them how to shoot. What for? I believe it is my responsibility to teach my children how to use firearms for the same reasons I believe it is my responsibility to teach them how to drive, to teach them about safe sex, and to teach them many other things. They will live in a world where there are various things that they can use as tools, but which might injure them if mis-used. I want them to know how to use those things properly, to minimize the chance they will be hurt. Parenting isn't all about what's "more fun." Some of it is about teaching things that your children ought to know to live happier, safer, more productive lives. Yep. If you consider safe driving beeing on same level as safe handling of a weapon, teaching safer sex - it should be OK for you. I taught my kids how to use tools, f. e. a knife, properly. At a dinner table, and not to kill someone. If for you a weapon has same value like a car or a table knife, so be it. I do no need to understand. Just a look into the future: How will you teach your kid(s) to travel into countries w/o weapons? How will they be able to manage such a *danger*? What will be your explanation if they ask you? ("Dad, France will not allow me to enter with my .44, how to survive in the streets of Paris ...?" Haha, a joke. You know, outside the US it's quite hard to carry any weapons around. You'll have to keep your little ones inside your borders. There's a danger: They might find out there's a life without a permanent threat!! Without a permanent standby of beeing attacked. Oh man. I should've addressed that novel to another gun-lover on board, dear JR ... dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #77 April 6, 2009 You misunderstand my point, perhaps intentionally. I do not mean to require my children to be armed, or even to own firearms. I simply wish to educate them on the functioning and safety rules of firearms. In similar fashion, I will not require them to own motor vehicles, but I will educate them on the functioning and safety rules of motor vehicles. They will live in a world where firearms are readily available. I would be remiss in my duty as a parent where I not to educate them on this topic.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #78 April 7, 2009 Quote Quote Quote ...never ever there was any need to teach them how to shoot. What for? I believe it is my responsibility to teach my children how to use firearms for the same reasons I believe it is my responsibility to teach them how to drive, to teach them about safe sex, and to teach them many other things. They will live in a world where there are various things that they can use as tools, but which might injure them if mis-used. I want them to know how to use those things properly, to minimize the chance they will be hurt. Parenting isn't all about what's "more fun." Some of it is about teaching things that your children ought to know to live happier, safer, more productive lives. Yep. If you consider safe driving beeing on same level as safe handling of a weapon, teaching safer sex - it should be OK for you. I taught my kids how to use tools, f. e. a knife, properly. At a dinner table, and not to kill someone. If for you a weapon has same value like a car or a table knife, so be it. I do no need to understand. Just a look into the future: How will you teach your kid(s) to travel into countries w/o weapons? How will they be able to manage such a *danger*? What will be your explanation if they ask you? ("Dad, France will not allow me to enter with my .44, how to survive in the streets of Paris ...?" Haha, a joke. You know, outside the US it's quite hard to carry any weapons around. You'll have to keep your little ones inside your borders. There's a danger: They might find out there's a life without a permanent threat!! Without a permanent standby of beeing attacked. Oh man. I should've addressed that novel to another gun-lover on board, dear JR ... I taught my daughter how to use a knife or anything else at her disposal to kill someone, anything that will save her life is OK with me. I guess you are worried about violence more so than the ability to prevent violence upon you and your family. If you or your kids are threatened with death or abducted will you just sit there and be nice? Hold still while they cut you into pieces or rape your kids? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #79 April 7, 2009 Quote Good discussions. Thanks! QuoteAmerica is a big place. In locations where nearly everyone has good jobs we don't kill each other appreciably more than the rest of the world. It's pretty clear that violent crime and property crime correlate strongly with poverty, lack of education, and lack of civil institutions. (Educated & wealthy criminals predominantly pursue other forms of crime.) One that's harder to measure and, admittedly, anecdotal, is lack (or perceived lack) of opportunity. I spent a number of years living in South Central Los Angeles, including during the 1992 riots: the sense of hopelessness was pervasive. It's hard to measure. My observation is that the US has largely spent the last 25 years in a 'get tough on crime' re-active mentality (ties into drug sentencing as well). The US has tried harsher sentencing ... and it doesn't work. The US has the highest incarceration rate. That's relevant to overall violent crime rate. Gang crime is another area that introduces more variables (that's a situation closer to insurgencies, imo, and like snowflakes, each insurgency is unique). At the same time, I'm not sure those cases reflect the perpetrators of the sort of violence that sparked this thread and a few of the other recent ones. /Marg Wow, a gun thread with some common sense with an attempt to maybe identify root causes for shootings like this Nice post!!! I think you are closer than many even may realize with your points. So, may I expand from them? I feel that people with opportunity will choose work and respect over crime. In that regard then, why do we see such crime, despair and depression in the inner cities and larger cities where we “tend” to see most of these type crimes? I feel the government and the policies that affect these areas the most, shoulder a large share of the blame. In places where hand outs, like food stamps, un-employment, government housing et al, make up the majority of a lifestyle, crime and killing is increased. These types of programs do nothing to encourage independence and a desire to work and to get ahead. To the contrary, these types of programs breed dependence and laziness. Dependence fosters low self esteem and then depression. A depression that leads to the types of events this thread is about. Oh, and this is my opinion based on what I read, see and experience."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #80 April 7, 2009 QuoteYou misunderstand my point, perhaps intentionally. I do not mean to require my children to be armed, or even to own firearms. I simply wish to educate them on the functioning and safety rules of firearms. Since each of your child's friends families has a 50% chance of having at least one gun in the house, it's important to teach your children the rules of safe gun handling which make accidental shootings impossible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #81 April 7, 2009 Quote Since each of your child's friends families has a 50% chance of having at least one gun in the house, it's important to teach your children the rules of safe gun handling which make accidental shootings impossible. Not sure about that math, Drew. Countrywide, I think it's dipped. Around here, it might be 5%. At some other areas, it is probably 75%. The instruction certainly can't hurt. But often when I read about people pointing guns at their friends and pulling the trigger, I wonder if it really was accidental. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #82 April 7, 2009 Quote I don't get it, people here are always saying that if there are restrictions on firearms then the innocent would not be able to defend themselves. Yet in all the recent shootings in the US how come not one of them was stopped by a innocent member of the public carrying their firearm? It just doesn't happen, it seems more and more like a bullshit argument. Let's see how that argument flies over your homeland with your pakistani relatives."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #83 April 7, 2009 QuoteThey might find out there's a life without a permanent threat!! Without a permanent standby of beeing attacked. Like those three mass school shootings in your home of Germany in the last nine years? Yeah, your gun laws are working just great! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #84 April 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteThey might find out there's a life without a permanent threat!! Without a permanent standby of beeing attacked. Like those three mass school shootings in your home of Germany in the last nine years? Yeah, your gun laws are working just great! versus six mass shootings in the USA in the past month. Your comparison is unfavorable to your cause. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #85 April 7, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteThey might find out there's a life without a permanent threat!! Without a permanent standby of beeing attacked. Like those three mass school shootings in your home of Germany in the last nine years? Yeah, your gun laws are working just great! versus six mass shootings in the USA in the past month. Your comparison is unfavorable to your cause. Stay on similar comparisons - school to school. Factor in the difference in population and that delta is pretty close on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #86 April 7, 2009 Interesting article on mass murder: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090406/ap_on_re_us/mass_shootings_why;_ylt=AuPPaEXnI3P8TuBteHu2prZbIwgF Yet it doesn't offer much insight into "what can be done." "Typically, mass murderers have no criminal record or history of psychiatric treatment . . ." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Slog 0 #87 April 7, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote They might find out there's a life without a permanent threat!! Without a permanent standby of beeing attacked. Like those three mass school shootings in your home of Germany in the last nine years? Yeah, your gun laws are working just great! versus six mass shootings in the USA in the past month. Your comparison is unfavorable to your cause. Stay on similar comparisons - school to school. Factor in the difference in population and that delta is pretty close on. Comparing only mass murders committed by people named "Cho", the US is in a dominatiing lead. Similar comparisons, and all that.IOW, what a LAME justifcation you made. BTW, we're up to SEVEN mass shootings in the US. This just in. Makes you proud, I'm sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #88 April 7, 2009 Quote Makes you proud, I'm sure. what would make me proud would be if you'd actually offer up progress, rather than being a second rate reporter. What you have here isn't a mass shooting, just another case of a husband killing his family rather than face divorce. Sad, but not an unusual event. Not something that would get national coverage unless it's a fad topic for the media. (Remember the year of LA Freeway shootings? Statistically, a down year for it) Women getting killed by their husbands or Ex's is really more a cry out for ending waiting periods. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #89 April 7, 2009 Hey I have an idea! Let's expand the definition of mass shootings!www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #90 April 7, 2009 QuoteHey I have an idea! Let's expand the definition of mass shootings! ok. If you change magazines, it's a mass shooting. (Stay away from the ranges until the economy improves) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #91 April 7, 2009 Quote Quote Hey I have an idea! Let's expand the definition of mass shootings! ok. If you change magazines, it's a mass shooting. California mags, or real mags? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #92 April 7, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Hey I have an idea! Let's expand the definition of mass shootings! ok. If you change magazines, it's a mass shooting. California mags, or real mags? Now see, this is the sort of detail work that is necessary when you want to propose new solutions. Not just wave your hands and make psycho gun nuts go away. Well, for 45s, it wouldn't matter, but certainly 9mm would have to be measured by the standard of non crippled hardware. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #93 April 7, 2009 Quote Well, for 45s, it wouldn't matter, but certainly 9mm would have to be measured by the standard of non crippled hardware. Para Ordnance and combat Tupperware owners might disagree. A full sized P15 .45 holds 17 rounds in its fat little belly with +2 magazine floor plates . Glock people can get an aftermarket model-18 like magazine which nets 25 rounds of .45 hanging out the bottom of their gun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #94 April 7, 2009 Quote Quote Well, for 45s, it wouldn't matter, but certainly 9mm would have to be measured by the standard of non crippled hardware. Para Ordnance and combat Tupperware owners might disagree. A full sized P15 .45 holds 17 rounds in its fat little belly with +2 magazine floor plates . Glock people can get an aftermarket model-18 like magazine which nets 25 rounds of .45 hanging out the bottom of their gun. But then they can't have arms like a broomstick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #95 April 7, 2009 QuoteQuote Makes you proud, I'm sure. what would make me proud would be if you'd actually offer up progress, rather than being a second rate reporter. What you have here isn't a mass shooting, just another case of a husband killing his family rather than face divorce.. "Two women and their children and the man suspected of shooting them at a Greenhill residence this morning are all dead, authorities said." Seems like you have a comprehension problem today.If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #96 April 8, 2009 Quote Seems like you have a comprehension problem today. As opposed to all year, at least. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
