More Antarctic ice gone

[lawrocket 3]

Good explanation and I find myself agreeing with you.

I especially liked your alternative causation theory of the sprinklers and, I'd reckon, lawns, transpiration, evaporation, etc. Little things like that that most people don't consider but, while not proven, could provide a good explanation.

Let us, then, refer to your statement as "denier."

Let us prepare some computer models that will disprove your theory. I'm sure that it could be done.

Note: bill, you've also hit on a corollary - how many of these weather monitoring sites have gone from rural to developed? I seem to recall problems of paving paradise and putting in parking lots.

If changing desert to green can explain a 2 degree drop, could changing green to pavement have the same effect?

These are questions. There are hundreds of them.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Salinity is the major driving force of the worlds deep underwater currents.



But then again the Naval Institute may not know as much about that as the alarmists and Al Gore.

As the heavily salinated water reaches the fjords it then dives deep to create a sub surface deep water conveyor belt.

That same current circles the globe and it has been measured using isotopes to track it.

[billvon 2,998]

>If changing desert to green can explain a 2 degree drop, could changing
>green to pavement have the same effect?

Yes, it could. And if it were a persistent bias, it would show up as a difference between settled areas and unsettled areas. In other words, if it were really messing up the data, you'd see no change in remote locations but a lot of increase in urban heat islands, thus upping the average.

That, however, is not the case.

[billvon 2,998]

>Salinity is the major driving force of the worlds deep underwater currents.

I agree. However, salinity is generally driven by evaporation, meltwater and rain, all of which are influenced by climate. So change in salinity is more an effect than a cause. Indeed, one of the bigger worries is that the rapid melting of the ice caps will interfere with the change in salinity (due to evaporation) that drives those currents.

(I'll ignore the obligatory Al Gore slam.)

[warpedskydiver 0]

Disruptions in the sea floor account for quite a great amount of the salinity and minerals in the ocean.


There are salt deposits under it that make the salt lake look like a salt shaker.

Disturb the bottom enough and we get what is under it.

[billvon 2,998]

>Disruptions in the sea floor account for quite a great amount of the
>salinity and minerals in the ocean.

Minerals - yes. Salinity - no. There is too much salt in the ocean (far, far more than there is in the entire crust of the planet) to cause a significant change in salinity.

Furthermore, we have not _seen_ a recent change in salinity - but we have seen an increase in CO2 corresponding to the temperature increase.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

If the "heat island" theory were correct, then when winds were strong at night, temperatures would tend to be lower than when they were light - because all the heat from those pesky barbeques and A/C units would be blown away from their sources more rapidly.

There is no such tendency.

Because EVERYONE knows that tons and tons of concrete, asphault, etc etc instantly drops to the ambient air temperature once the sun sets...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jerryzflies 0]

Quote

Quote

If the "heat island" theory were correct, then when winds were strong at night, temperatures would tend to be lower than when they were light - because all the heat from those pesky barbeques and A/C units would be blown away from their sources more rapidly.

There is no such tendency.

Because EVERYONE knows that tons and tons of concrete, asphault, etc etc instantly drops to the ambient air temperature once the sun sets...

It appears you now admit that made made sources (concrete, asphalt...) are causing global heating.

Anyone with a brain knows that pumping 30 billion additional tons of CO2 into the air every year will raise the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere - and it has.

As Bill said, run the numbers and the annual change in atmospheric CO2 is a match for the amount we spew into the atmosphere.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If the "heat island" theory were correct, then when winds were strong at night, temperatures would tend to be lower than when they were light - because all the heat from those pesky barbeques and A/C units would be blown away from their sources more rapidly.

There is no such tendency.

Because EVERYONE knows that tons and tons of concrete, asphault, etc etc instantly drops to the ambient air temperature once the sun sets...

It appears you now admit that made made sources (concrete, asphalt...) are causing global heating.

Anyone with a brain knows that pumping 30 billion additional tons of CO2 into the air every year will raise the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere - and it has.

As Bill said, run the numbers and the annual change in atmospheric CO2 is a match for the amount we spew into the atmosphere.

And this has *what*, exactly, to do with my post? If you want to rah-rah Billvon, use one of his posts to answer.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jerryzflies 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

If the "heat island" theory were correct, then when winds were strong at night, temperatures would tend to be lower than when they were light - because all the heat from those pesky barbeques and A/C units would be blown away from their sources more rapidly.

There is no such tendency.

Because EVERYONE knows that tons and tons of concrete, asphault, etc etc instantly drops to the ambient air temperature once the sun sets...

It appears you now admit that made made sources (concrete, asphalt...) are causing global heating.

Anyone with a brain knows that pumping 30 billion additional tons of CO2 into the air every year will raise the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere - and it has.

As Bill said, run the numbers and the annual change in atmospheric CO2 is a match for the amount we spew into the atmosphere.

And this has *what*, exactly, to do with my post? If you want to rah-rah Billvon, use one of his posts to answer.

When did you become a greenie? How come your name doesn't appear in green?

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

we're all doomed!!!!

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[billvon 2,998]

>Because EVERYONE knows that tons and tons of concrete, asphault, etc etc
>instantly drops to the ambient air temperature once the sun sets...

And EVERYONE knows that an irrigated desert field is exactly the same temperature as a rockfield after the sun sets.

[lawrocket 3]

Anybody see what's been going on with Antarctic ice this year? Much like last year, only with more ice this year than last year's record levels. Look at the attachef photo - it's been over a month of extent greater than 2 standard deviations. Throughout this year, the Antarctic ice has not been below normal.

Compare to the comments here of fewer than 5 years ago. There are a couple of explanations:
(1) Natural variability has been seen over the last 35 years; or
(2) Anthropogenic greenhouse gases have cause the dramatic increase in Antarctic sea ice death spiral.

I'm seeing some odd things about this year. Arctic ice extent is in the normal range (levels like this were seen in the 1980s), demonstrating a remarkable ability to bounce back after last year's record low and even with CO2 at the 400 ppm level that has been the consensus tipping pointm

We've seen ZER0 Atlantic hurricanes this year, continuing the years-long trend of hurricanes being fewer, weaker and less destructive

We've seen a record-low number of tornadoes in the US this year

Wildfires in the US are at a record low.

The droughts that were predicted to be long-lasting have reversed in those drought-ridden places such that the corn crop is at a record level and prices are very low (those corn futures speculators who bought the "permanent drought" rhetoric lost a fortune)

The number of record cold events in the US this year were also very high, which ran counter to last year's trend. (Note - I live in Fresno and the positive heat anomaly this year has been greater here than anywhere else in the country. It's been damned oppressive).

I think what we have seen is proof of what could be a truism: don't like what the weather has been doing? Wait a few years. When you go back a few years and look at what was happening - and what it was blamed on - you can look at the present and see the opposite occurring.

If the blamed cause a few years ago is still here and yet opposite effects are seen (Antarctic sea ice has been trending up consistently since 1980, so understandably that one may be disregarded) then I think it's fair to challenge the validity of the claim that CO2 caused it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[airdvr 210]

To put it more succinctly to the AGW alarmists...

neener neener

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[lawrocket 3]

I'm nnot saying "neener neener."

I'm indicating that there is data now that did not exist before that indicates something different going on now from before that wasn't exactly predicted.

I think that it's fair to bring up these data. It's a different situation now from a few years ago. Many indicators moving opposite.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[airdvr 210]

lawrocket

I'm nnot saying "neener neener."

I know you're not...I am.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne