Bolas 5
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QuoteSenate Republicans are now privately threatening to derail the confirmation of key Obama administration nominees for top legal positions by linking the votes to suppressing critical torture memos from the Bush era. A reliable Justice Department source advises me that Senate Republicans are planning to “go nuclear” over the nominations of Dawn Johnsen as chief of the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice and Yale Law School Dean Harold Koh as State Department legal counsel if the torture documents are made public. The source says these threats are the principal reason for the Obama administration’s abrupt pullback last week from a commitment to release some of the documents. A Republican Senate source confirms the strategy. It now appears that Republicans are seeking an Obama commitment to safeguard the Bush administration’s darkest secrets in exchange for letting these nominations go forward.
Barack Obama entered Washington with a promise of transparency. One of his first acts was a presidential directive requiring that the Freedom of Information Act, a near dead letter during the Bush years, was to be enforced according to its terms. He specifically criticized the Bush administration’s practice of preparing secret memos that determined legal policy and promised to review and publish them after taking office.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/135582/republicans_in_desperation_over_obama_releasing_more_bush_torture_memos_/
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
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Skyrad 0
QuoteQuoteThat assumes that they are guilty to start with, we now know that many of them were just in the wrong place at the wrong time or were denounced by others after a reward. Sure some were Taliban or AQ but they were the minority.
Wrong place at the wrong time?
Just sittin' on the porch minding their business?
Totally innocent delicate little flowers that would never heart anyone, not even an american capitalist pig?
Educate yourself
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4535
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteCryr me a river if you have to stand up until you're allowed to sit down.
Torture, rape, and murder... absolutely not.
Uncomfortable standing positions while the Red Cross monitors... boohoo.
I can only assume you didn't bother to read the article.
Forced standing on one leg (he only had one leg) with his arms shackled above his head for TWO WEEKS is TORTURE in anyone's book except yours.
Calling it "enhanced interrogation" is absurd.
If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.
Bolas 5
QuoteQuoteQuoteThat assumes that they are guilty to start with, we now know that many of them were just in the wrong place at the wrong time or were denounced by others after a reward. Sure some were Taliban or AQ but they were the minority.
Wrong place at the wrong time?
Just sittin' on the porch minding their business?
Totally innocent delicate little flowers that would never heart anyone, not even an american capitalist pig?
Educate yourself
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4535
QuoteWhen recidivism rates for criminals typically run in the more than 60 percent range, and when at Guantánamo you have a rate in only the single digits, you don’t have much of a criminal (or in this case terrorist) population to begin with. We are hardly saying there are no terrorists at Guantánamo. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the operational commander of the 9/11 attacks, and others who were transferred there from secret overseas Central Intelligence Agency prisons in 2006 are certainly members of al Qaeda’s hard core.
Or maybe combined with the some that were wrongfully accused by other countries their methods were just that much more effective than standard corrections techniques which we know don't work.
Added: Most likely those that were abused were not part of the wrongfully accused.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
QuoteThe head of the CIA moved yesterday to formalise the new Obama administration's break with the past in its approach to national security, when he ordered the final decommissioning of secret overseas sites where the US had held, and in some cases tortured, al-Qaida prisoners.
Leon Panetta told the agency's staff that he was overturning one of the causes of complaint of human rights groups about detentions of terrorist suspects under the Bush regime: the use of private contractors to secure prisoners. From now on private security firms will no longer have any role in the sites, a shift that has the added benefit of saving the CIA some $4m (£2.7m).
The rejection of the services of private security firms in itself marks a clean break with past practices. During the Bush era, contractors enjoyed a bonanza – particularly in Iraq, where they were used to perform many of the roles of the overstretched military.
Panetta said that the sites – which are now empty, having received no new detainees since he took over the agency in February – would be decommissioned under the auspices of the agency itself. His announcement puts into practice the signal given by President Obama on the second day of his administration that he would have the facilities closed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/10/cia-panetta-closes-rendition-sites
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
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good solid response-provoking keyboarding
Quote
Added: Most likely those that were abused were not part of the wrongfully accused.
"MOST LIKELY"
You are just confirming your "Guilty until proven innocent" and "Sentence first, trial later" attitude to justice.
Bolas 5
QuoteQuote
Added: Most likely those that were abused were not part of the wrongfully accused.
"MOST LIKELY"
You are just confirming your "Guilty until proven innocent" and "Sentence first, trial later" attitude to justice.
Think of it more of a conditioned, experienced based response.
What could be considered a normal innocent movement or gesture in the "real world" most likely is not in prison.
The less chances the guards take, the safer overall it is for both them and the inmates. If an inmate does succeed in injuring a guard, they and others always get it back worse.
Not so much excessive force, but measured response and those measurements aren't very precise.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
Quote'These People Fear Prosecution': Why Bush's CIA Team Should Worry About Its Dark Embrace of Torture
JM: One of the things that caught my eye last night was that it's clear that the CIA -- and I think you'd have to guess the Department of Defense -- lied to the Red Cross. They told the Red Cross when it visited Guantanamo [in 2002] that it had seen all of the detainees. But what the report says is that some of the detainees -- some of the high-value detainees -- realized when they were finally sent to Guantanamo in 2006 that they'd been there before. They were there. And yet the Red Cross was not allowed to see them. The Red Cross was told they'd seen everybody.
So the CIA and DOD lied to the Red Cross. There were some hidden prisoners in Guantanamo. That's an overt act; lying to the Red Cross, hiding prisoners from them. So, that's interesting to me.
There are also some specific details [about the torture] I didn't know. I didn't realize they used hospital beds to waterboard people, with motorized reclining backs, which is hideous.
I knew there were doctors there -- I mean, people will tell you that there were doctors there, and it's in the book -- but there's still something so specifically terrible about reading that they would attach some kind of modern monitor that could monitor oxygen to the finger of a prisoner while they were busy depriving him of oxygen.
They told him -- Khalid Sheik Mohammed (and this was in the New Yorker stories I did and it was in the book) -- that they would take him to the brink of death and back but they wouldn't kill him. So, they used sort of the most modern medicine to make sure they did exactly that. Its kind of a horrible combination of modernism and the Dark Ages all in one.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/136123/%27these_people_fear_prosecution%27%3A_why_bush%27s_cia_team_should_worry_about_its_dark_embrace_of_torture/?page=entire
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
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good solid response-provoking keyboarding
carmenc 0
Skyrad 0
So what happened to the prisoners???
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR51/101/2007/en/c57cdba7-d388-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/amr511012007en.html
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR51/101/2007/en/c57cdba7-d388-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/amr511012007en.html
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
I did leave it wide open which in retrospect was better for the discussion as we are talking about the extreme cases, not normal behaviors.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
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