quade 4 #1 April 9, 2009 We've had a couple of recent threads where licensing of owners has been brought up; the Pittsburgh Shooting and the Gun Range Mom. To me it seems like licensing of owners IS the way to stop a number of things from falling through the cracks. It also occurs to me that it would help keep guns out of the hands of criminals via the gun show loopholes. http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7297745&page=1quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #2 April 9, 2009 I'm against blanket licensing. I think the "gun show loophole" business is very overblown. The vast majority of gun show sales are made by FFL dealers, who are required to run the same checks as if the customer walked into a store. That said: How would you feel about a national "gun license" that acted as a CCW permit nationwide, and further allowed the licensee's to own any federally allowed firearms, even if their local jurisdiction had varying rules? I bet you could get some gun owners, especially in California, lining up to support an idea like that. Oh, and you never responded to my ideas in the other thread about re-opening the NFA registry and moving SBR/SBS and suppressors off the list, and about creating a national education initiative run by the NRA. Negotiating is about give and take. What do you think?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #3 April 9, 2009 If we had a licensing program then we wouldn't need background checks for every purchase, a waiting period, or gun registration. Exchange all three of those and I'll be happy having a license. Here's some info on a similar system already in place. http://safety.transportation.org/htmlguides/USR/intro.htmwww.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,517 #4 April 9, 2009 I think that it needs to be pointed out that any "solution" that doesn't involve forced confiscation of guns (and no, that's NOT a good idea) will take a couple of generations at least to start impacting illegal gun availability. A lot of people have guns that they inherited, or bought from friends, that are not registered. These are not felons, or crazy people, they just didn't buy their guns from stores. This isn't an argument in one direction or another, just something to take into account. It's kind of like saying that everything was equal after the Civil War. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 April 9, 2009 QuoteNegotiating is about give and take. It is about give and take. I think if rules were tightened up for CCW and that became the de facto nation-wide license there could be room to move on allowing those people access to to some weapons that are currently banned. However, on the other (low) end of the scale, things absolutely need to be tightened up so that people can't just walk into gun ranges and commit murder suicides (which is admittedly rare) or folks that are violent whack jobs have easy access like the nut job in Pittsburgh. Maybe a tiered system with the low end simply being an ID card that MUST be issued as long as they've attended a gun safety class (like driver's ed for guns) and has no history of criminal or violent activity. This would allow access to all currently allowed guns. On the higher end, would be the equivalent of the CCW that would allow access to some not currently allowed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 April 9, 2009 QuoteIf we had a licensing program then we wouldn't need background checks for every purchase, a waiting period, or gun registration. Exchange all three of those and I'll be happy having a license. Here's some info on a similar system already in place. http://safety.transportation.org/htmlguides/USR/intro.htm I agree. I think all of the odious parts could easily go away if a person was simply required to have a license. The reason all of those things are in place right now is because a license doesn't exist and they're the only tools at hand.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,517 #7 April 9, 2009 You know, we joke about people being able to have children without any qualifications, and how nice it would be to be able to tell some people "sorry, you can't have any more -- you're too fucked up." Maybe the deal is that everyone is automatically issued a basic gun license at 18, but they can upgrade it, or lose it. But they have to have it with them if they want to rent a gun, buy a gun, etc. If they lose it, then they have to re-apply and show who they are, kind of like with a Social Security card. Of course, if you want to go plinking on the back 40, you probably don't have to show your buds your license.There is absolutely no solution that will eliminate problems when you're talking about 300,000,000 people. Wendy W. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 April 9, 2009 QuoteMaybe the deal is that everyone is automatically issued a basic gun license at 18 . . . Not without attending a gun safety class. I think that ought to be a minimum. I also think we could drop that age down to 16, but allow them to purchase with a guardian's permission. QuoteThere is absolutely no solution that will eliminate problems when you're talking about 300,000,000 people. True. It certainly doesn't stop people from occasionally being killed by drunk drivers even though licenses are required and drunk driving is illegal. However, I do think both the license and laws against drunk driving are reasonable and they do cut down the occurrences.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #9 April 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteIf we had a licensing program then we wouldn't need background checks for every purchase, a waiting period, or gun registration. Exchange all three of those and I'll be happy having a license. Here's some info on a similar system already in place. http://safety.transportation.org/htmlguides/USR/intro.htm I agree. I think all of the odious parts could easily go away if a person was simply required to have a license. The reason all of those things are in place right now is because a license doesn't exist and they're the only tools at hand. And that's the problem.... gun controllers would never give up anything. They just want to add and restrict as much as possible. I would oppose any licensing program proposal.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 April 9, 2009 Quote Quote Quote If we had a licensing program then we wouldn't need background checks for every purchase, a waiting period, or gun registration. Exchange all three of those and I'll be happy having a license. Here's some info on a similar system already in place. http://safety.transportation.org/htmlguides/USR/intro.htm I agree. I think all of the odious parts could easily go away if a person was simply required to have a license. The reason all of those things are in place right now is because a license doesn't exist and they're the only tools at hand. And that's the problem.... gun controllers would never give up anything. They just want to add and restrict as much as possible. I would oppose any licensing program proposal. But, you just said you'd be happy to have licensing if the other things went away. With a license, the other things are redundant and wouldn't be needed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #11 April 9, 2009 IF! Not likely to happen tho www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #12 April 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteMaybe the deal is that everyone is automatically issued a basic gun license at 18 . . . Not without attending a gun safety class. What if the gun safety class, administered by the NRA, was a mandatory part of the secondary school curriculum nationwide?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 426 #13 April 9, 2009 QuoteWe've had a couple of recent threads where licensing of owners has been brought up; the Pittsburgh Shooting and the Gun Range Mom. To me it seems like licensing of owners IS the way to stop a number of things from falling through the cracks. It also occurs to me that it would help keep guns out of the hands of criminals via the gun show loopholes. http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7297745&page=1 What exactly do you think such licensing will accomplish?Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 April 9, 2009 Quote If we had a licensing program then we wouldn't need background checks for every purchase, a waiting period Texas CHL provides for this. You have a CHL you don't wait and the quick check is done while you wait (called in by your FFL using your DL). SBR/SBS is easy, assuming you meet the qualifications. So is putting a can on the SBR. Now I just need to build out a new upper and sneak it into the house (so I don't loose my kitchen pass). Now if NFA was easier, I would be a happy man. (Too bad I could buy a NFA, but it would be cheaper to buy a new car instead).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,517 #15 April 9, 2009 QuoteWhat if the gun safety class, administered by the NRA, was a mandatory part of the secondary school curriculum nationwide?I think that would be an appropriate part of public education. You don't want your kid to be educated on it, you don't put them in public schools. Do kids who didn't get it in school have to show proof of having taken it? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #16 April 9, 2009 QuoteQuote If we had a licensing program then we wouldn't need background checks for every purchase, a waiting period Texas CHL provides for this. You have a CHL you don't wait and the quick check is done while you wait (called in by your FFL using your DL). SBR/SBS is easy, assuming you meet the qualifications. It'd be easier if your CHL got you out of the waiting. And even better would be if it got you out of filing the form at all, and paying the 200 bucks.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #17 April 9, 2009 QuoteQuoteWhat if the gun safety class, administered by the NRA, was a mandatory part of the secondary school curriculum nationwide?I think that would be an appropriate part of public education. You don't want your kid to be educated on it, you don't put them in public schools. Do kids who didn't get it in school have to show proof of having taken it? Yes. And honestly, I'd envision some kind of opt-out waiver, where parents who had strong moral objections could hold their kids out of that coursework (but the kid would always have the option to take a corresponding class once they reached 18). I'd also picture the course including material on 2nd amendment history and such, and a bit of the driver's ed style "scare 'em straight" stories.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 April 9, 2009 CHL doesn't help with a SBR/SBS, but for waiting periods it means that you don't have to wait.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #19 April 9, 2009 QuoteWhat exactly do you think such licensing will accomplish? Streamline bureaucracy. Eliminate waiting periods. Reduce firearms in the hands of criminals. Reduce improper useage of firearms. Increase gun safety (and education). Reduce state restrictions on licensed owners (for example, allow someone with the federal license to own full capacity mags, even if they live in California).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #20 April 9, 2009 I meant the wait for the ATF to process the form 1 for a SBS/SBR. What if you had a nationwide "CHL" that eliminated that waiting period the way that the state CHL eliminates background check waiting (and other restrictions, in some states, like 30 day purchase caps).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #21 April 9, 2009 QuoteWhat if the gun safety class, administered by the NRA, was a mandatory part of the secondary school curriculum nationwide? Well, that would be an unfunded mandate and I'm not so sure you'd be able to get as much support for that as you'd need. In California, for instance, they don't even do Driver's Ed in schools any more, but is still required for licenses. The parents of the kids that want to take the class have to pay for it and those that don't, don't. I'd probably support that in favor of taxing everyone for the benefit of a few.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #22 April 9, 2009 QuoteI meant the wait for the ATF to process the form 1 for a SBS/SBR A buddy of mine that SBRed his AR and put a can on it, it took him about a month to get the form approved. I'm still personally not a big fan of a national license or registration.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #23 April 9, 2009 I bet you could get local volunteer instructors, and donations of range time and practice materials. And it would give the NRA a chance to contribute and put their money where their mouth is, so to speak.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #24 April 9, 2009 When? Last summer a friend of mine waited 83 days on a form 1.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 April 9, 2009 QuoteWhen? Last summer a friend of mine waited 83 days on a form 1. It was around January/February.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
