billvon 3,008 #26 April 15, 2009 >I still don't see where the federal government is to provide healthcare for all. That is not called out explicitly in the Constitution. Neither is the CDC, or national highways, or the FCC, or the NTSC, or air traffic control. However, these organizations certainly provide for the general welfare of the people (and businesses) of the United States, and thus fall under that clause. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,326 #27 April 15, 2009 Well, I just read the Contents and the first few review pages and looks like I'm gonna order it as soon as I'm done typing here... Looks like a good read... thanks for the recommendation, Tom.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #28 April 15, 2009 Quote Try to keep up. I never asserted that - I strongly believe in public health: so when you wrote: > As in National Welfare; not personal welfare... You were just trying to remain straddled on the fence? Quote I do not believe in a US universal health care for all citizens. Whether or not you personally believe in it or not is not the topic of our discussion. My point was that a healthy public is in the interest of the general welfare of the country, thus Congress is fully within their power, as delegated by the Constitution, to pass legislation to promote and provide for a healthy public, including universal healthcare for all citizens, which is a valid (many would also argue practical) method of promoting and providing for good public health. Your quoted reference doesn't refute my point. Thanks for the snide comments, though. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #29 April 15, 2009 So do you think it improper for the Navy to have stepped in and defended a US ship in peril by pirates? Can you propose what you feel the Navy SHOULD have done? In your opinion, should there have been no support for a private shipping vessel... even though it could be argued that the shipping industry is important to the commerce of America. In fact, since it's so important, shouldn't the government buy them out... or is that only for Automotive companies? In your opinion, should we have allowed the pirates to continue their attacks unchallenged? Tell us your opinion on that event, instead of comparing it to a situation that really is apples to oranges. "Sure... the Navy will do this... but the Government won't do this." With regards to your push for National Healthcare.... careful what you wish for - it might come true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,326 #30 April 15, 2009 Quotecertainly provide for the general welfare of the people (and businesses) of the United States Sir... it says nothing about the general welfare of the people... “pay the debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States.” In my lay interpretation from below... that means to take care of the house, not the people inside. Technically, taking care of the people inside... is more of a state responsibility if, 1) a part of the State Constitution, or 2) the State Constitution is ratified by its citizens to encompass that care... The grant of power to “provide ... for the general welfare” raises a two-fold question: how may Congress provide for “the general welfare” and what is “the general welfare” that it is authorized to promote? The first half of this question was answered by Thomas Jefferson in his opinion on the Bank as follows: “[T]he laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They [Congress] are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. http://law.onecle.com/constitution/article-1/18-spending-for-general-welfare.html Embedding the Human Right to Health Care in U.S. State Constitutions Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #31 April 16, 2009 I understand the issues of shipping (heck, I used to work a bit in it myself). The difficulties in providing some security are certainly troublesome, since the vessels really can't turn themselves into gunships (ports won't let them in.) But If I've paid FOB (which is the standard so the buyers can track the shipments) it may be worthwhile to have delivery delayed by 8 hours due to security over the risk of a delay for three days or three weeks. This piracy stuff ain't new. The Somalian piracy is just more recent. It's been a pretty well-known risk in Asia - particularly in the Strait of Malacca. Lloyd's of London declared the strait a war zone and added a 1% charge for insurance for a passage through it. This is no small amount of money - considering that the strait is used to supply China with oil from the Middle East. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #32 April 16, 2009 >it says nothing about the general welfare of the people . . It talks about the general welfare of the United States of America. The United States of America is made up of its people, and its government is a government by the people, for the people. >that means to take care of the house, not the people inside. ??? Why would you need to take care of the house, if not to keep the people inside warm and dry? Take away the people and there is no point in maintaining the house. Fixing someone's house, keeping someone's airplane from crashing, and keeping infections diseases from killing them are all part of providing for their general welfare. Doing that on a larger scale, such that all people in the US can benefit, is providing for the general welfare of the USA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #33 April 16, 2009 QuoteQuotecertainly provide for the general welfare of the people (and businesses) of the United States Sir... it says nothing about the general welfare of the people... “pay the debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States.” In my lay interpretation from below... that means to take care of the house, not the people inside. Technically, taking care of the people inside... is more of a state responsibility if, 1) a part of the State Constitution, or 2) the State Constitution is ratified by its citizens to encompass that care... The grant of power to “provide ... for the general welfare” raises a two-fold question: how may Congress provide for “the general welfare” and what is “the general welfare” that it is authorized to promote? The first half of this question was answered by Thomas Jefferson in his opinion on the Bank as follows: “[T]he laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They [Congress] are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. The citizens are the greatest resource of the United States. The general welfare of the nation's citizens are is important part of the general welfare of the nation.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,326 #34 April 16, 2009 QuoteWhy would you need to take care of the house, if not to keep the people inside warm and dry? Take away the people and there is no point in maintaining the house. Madison contended that the powers of taxation and appropriation of the proposed government should be regarded as merely instrumental to its remaining powers, in other words, as little more than a power of self-support. I guess a better metaphor might have been the foundation of the house (infrastructure) upon which the states build the shelter for the people. A lot of the federal agencies began during WWII and shortly thereafter and just simply gained momentum until what we have today. I'm beginning to feel like the "Tenth Amendment" thread and this one are commingling.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #35 April 16, 2009 My question is, how long until BlackWater (or similar) figure out a way to provide security escorts to US shipping vessels for an exceptional profit?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,326 #36 April 16, 2009 Sheesh... I'm working on it... gimmee a minute. And its no longer BW; its Xe.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #37 April 16, 2009 QuoteMy question is, how long until BlackWater (or similar) figure out a way to provide security escorts to US shipping vessels for an exceptional profit? My question is, why the heck didn't that happen quite a long time ago? Honestly, for the amount of the ransoms being paid, someone ought to be able to park an "anti-pirate mothership" out there and hire themselves out as a security detail to passing merchant ships. You pay some fee, they put a set of armed guards on board and/or just escort you through the area. Then they pick up the next "client" and so on. The advantages are obvious because they're out in international waters, and they have no rules of engagement. They can basically bring a helicopter or two and just blaze away at any pirate speedboats they see out there.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #38 April 16, 2009 QuoteMy question is, how long until BlackWater (or similar) figure out a way to provide security escorts to US shipping vessels for an exceptional profit? They're Xe, which sounds like the American pronounciation of the letter "Z," now. Xe (nee Blackwater) announced their intention do that last October. They haven't had much success, however. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #39 April 16, 2009 QuoteQuoteMy question is, how long until BlackWater (or similar) figure out a way to provide security escorts to US shipping vessels for an exceptional profit? They're Xe, which sounds like the American pronounciation of the letter "Z," now. Xe (nee Blackwater) announced their intention do that last October. They haven't had much success, however. /Marg Well they probably won't have much success as long as they are being crowded out by the taxpayer funded US (and others) Navy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #40 April 16, 2009 Quote Pirates get their health coverage through their union. End of story. Well, there is the solution: Infiltrate the union with people who can work their way up into positions of leadership. Then they guide the union into going on strike to demand higher ransoms and fringe benefits. Problem solved."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #41 April 16, 2009 >My question is, how long until BlackWater (or similar) figure out a way to >provide security escorts to US shipping vessels for an exceptional profit? They could indeed! They could charge a significant sum (call it "protection") to ensure safety. Of course, should a ship be foolish enough to not pay this protection fee, there would be nothing really illegal in letting people know which ships were unprotected; indeed, it would make good business sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #42 April 16, 2009 Couldn't they just pour rum on whatever disease or pirate-inflicted wound they have? Who needs government healthcare? Rum will cure anything! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #43 April 16, 2009 Love it or leave it Commie. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #44 April 16, 2009 *** or change it...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #45 July 13, 2009 does anyone think 'they' will fix our broken femurs and pelvises 'for free' and just say.. 'oh, no problem' good luck on your next jump, too !! yeah right. come on !!!!!!!!!!!! everyone has been screwed or mistreated by a government bureaucrat. this time, the consequences will be most dire ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #46 July 13, 2009 >everyone has been screwed or mistreated by a government bureaucrat. this > time, the consequences will be most dire ! Yep! You might even have to (gasp!) pay for your own care if you don't want the crappy government care! O whatever will we do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #47 July 13, 2009 Quote>everyone has been screwed or mistreated by a government bureaucrat. this > time, the consequences will be most dire ! Yep! You might even have to (gasp!) pay for your own care if you don't want the crappy government care! O whatever will we do? Well, it sucks to have to pay for both when you only use one. And you have less money to pay for your own care when you're forced to pay for care you don't use.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
